Talk:Guainía Taíno Tribe

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Recognition

@User:Yuchitown and @User:CorbieVreccan The article says that this group "was recognized by Governor Albert Bryan of the US Virgin Islands". What does tribal recognition mean in the context of a US territory? Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 00:09, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at this source...Usually proclamations by a government official aren't the same as state or federal recognition. But I'm not familiar with the laws of this jurisdiction. The act/law they cite is the Revised Organic Act of 1954, amended and the text is, "recognized by the Governor "as an indigenous American Indian Tribe of the Virgin Islands, for the purpose of assisting this tribal entity in establishing eligibility for federal health benefits, federal education benefits, housing benefits, job training, land use, and the right to engage in traditional religious practices and ceremonies."

And then there's this odd bit in the same source:

Phillips, who defines herself also as a Christian, is now sending out a call to others who think they might have Taino ancestry to join the tribe. “We’re having open enrollment in the month of June,” said Phillips. “The first step is to have your DNA tested. I don’t care about the percentage of Taino DNA. Some people only have oral stories.”

So are they taking people based on self-id? It's unclear from the sources. The proclamation of Indigenous Peoples' Day just seems to be a standard thing, saying they're descendants of the Taino, so not really useful. I'd look up the specifics of that law. Because right now, there are internal conflicts in these sources. - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 01:18, 5 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lazy editing

@Lewisguile Reverting something as "likely to be" POV pushing is lazy and defamatory. Did you even both to look into the veracity of what I wrote? Obviously not, per your own admission. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 08:55, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I did read your additions, but they are wording changes which don't appear to be well sourced. Can you point to a consensus among RSes who support the wording you implemented? I'm happy to discuss the edits if so. The sources in the article themselves use very different language.

I agree that Governor's proclamation doesn't count as "recognition" in any formal sense, so I would support rewording that. But the language and content should be otherwise informed by RSes. Lewisguile (talk) 09:01, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Lewisguile This corporation is registered in the USVI and Puerto Rico as a non-profit. It is not a tribe. A tribe is a sovereign nation with citizens. This non-profit is not a sovereign nation. To describe it as a tribe is a falsehood. Wikipedia should be factual and neutral, rather than promoting organizations and their claims. Whether it should or should not be recognized as a tribe is an opinion. Whereas, stating that it is not a tribe is a fact. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 11:38, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia has some guidance on verifiability over WP:TRUTH which is relevant here. We should rely on verifiable statements by RSes on the topic, rather than inserting our own WP:OR or stating our own opinions/interpretations.

I appreciate there is a distinction between a tribe as a legal entity in the US and its usage in common language. But we are not enforcers of US law and readers will not necessarily care about US legal distinctions.

The issue is also complicated by the fact that Indigenous Caribbean communities (or people claiming they're related to such groups) aren't necessarily Native Americans in the way Americans define it—in which case, the distinction may not be meaningful to them anyway. Puerto Rico is in a weird space where it's both in the Caribbean and an American territory.

If you have some RSes who describe the organisation in specific terms, please can you share them? I am happy to discuss some revised wording with you. I also appreciate your good faith in raising the issue here on talk, and have gone through the prior edits and restored some of the content which was sourced, and tweaked the opening paragraph to strike a better balance between the two versions. See what you think and then let me know what other suggestions you have. Lewisguile (talk) 13:39, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]