Talk:Great cerebral vein

Anatomy: Gross Mid‑importance

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VGAM

Under your malformations section, you mention that "VGAM" is a misnomer. You don't previously mention VGAM in the article and it seems a little unclear to what you are referring here. What is VGAM? Lildevil3221 (talk) 02:03, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

VGAM is "Vein of Galen aneurysmal malformation", a variety of conditions, not arising in, but involving the great cerebral vein or the internal cerebral veins (the Galenic system, a different entity). Thanks for the pick-up. I've modified the text to clarify. Novangelis (talk) 02:37, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thrombosis

I found an interesting article regarding blood clots in deep cerebral veins. It's titled "Diagnosis and treatment of deep cerebral vein thrombosis" and is written by Frank Erbguth, Peter Brenner, and Gerhard Schuierer. The article describes three cases of blood clots in the deep cerebral vein and explains how the condition was diagnosed and treated. It also sheds light on the improvement of neurological deficits that occurred due to the thrombosis. This article could be used to perhaps create a "Thrombosis", "Diagnosis", and "Treatment" subsection within the "Disorders and Diseases of the Vein of Galen section. Giantsjs2000 (talk) 02:30, 24 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The nomenclature is tricky. This is the "vein of Galen", not "veins of Galen" (internal cerebral veins). Any detailed entry probably belongs there (you need to be sure what vessels the article is discussing) and only the details specific to the great cerebral vein belong here. I'll check about adding a hat note to this article to reduce confusion. There may have been one in the past. Novangelis (talk) 03:07, 24 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A Few Comments

This article provides a lot of information, including VGAM diagnosis and treatment. I suggest you add it to your malformation section:“Ultrasound detection of congenital Arteriovenous aneurysm of the great cerebral vein of Galen.” By R. A. Mullaart et. all. Also this website has a lot of valuable information on Vein of Galen Malformation. Including information on recent research, a section your article currently lacks. http://www.ucsfchildrenshospital.org/conditions/vein_of_galen_malformation/

Also I suggest you include information from this article in your Disorders and Diseases of the Vein of Galen section. It is about a case study on an arteriovenous fistula, which is an unusual channel between a vein and an artery, in the great cerebral vein. “CONGENITAL ARTERIOVENOUS FISTULA WITH AN ANEURYSM OF THE GREAT CEREBRAL VEIN AND HYDROCEPHALUS TREATED SURGICALLY” by JAMES B. GIBSON et. all.

And finally, just a spelling correction the third word in this sentence should be ‘from’: “This comes form the inferior side of the posterior end of the corpus callosum and empties into the straight sinus located in the midline of the tentorium.” Pat Bolan (talk) 06:22, 27 November 2009

As above, this is not just the great cerebral vein, the topic of the article. If you follow the link to in the article, you will find far more detail at cerebral arteriovenous malformation. An important thing about Wikipedia is BE BOLD. I fixed the typo, but you could have easily done it yourself. Novangelis (talk) 00:58, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Another malformation that you seem to have omitted is the absence of a great cerebral vein. This topic could be elaborated on both within the "malformation" and "anatomy" section because the absence of such a vein has an impact on the overall vein structure of the brain. An article that explains the affects of the absence of a great cerebral vein can be found here: [[1]].

--Philades (talk) 21:53, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There are some suggestions from other uses, regarding the inclusion of great cerebral vein malformation but there is another article in wikipedia that discusses that so its up to you to decide whether you want to merge your article with theirs. Also there is another suggestion on including the effects of thrombus on the great cerebral vein; again there is another article on wikipedia on that specific topic if you want to merge this article with theirs. I you decide to do so then I recommend to look at "The handbook on Cerebral Venous thrombosis" by Karger, which is a really in depth explanation of this disorder, but it also includes information on the anatomy of the great cerebral vein. Furthermore, you can find more anomalies affecting the great cerebral vein and images of these disorders at: Transfontanellar Doppler imaging in neonates by Alain Couture, Corinne Vyrac. Good Luck!!! Kristaqkoci (talk) 19:05, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Malformation refers to arteriovenous malformation. specifically. Absence, though a malformation, is a different entity. There is an annoying level of confusing, though precise, terminology. The references provided are nice.Novangelis (talk) 00:24, 29 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, just thought I'd suggest some additional information that could be provided under your malformation section. Frequently, a vein of Galen malformation is found where there is heart failure, but no apparent problems with the heart in an infant or young child. I have included a link to a website that includes some information on how the malformation is diagnosed and how secondary symptoms like hydrocephalus can be relieved. Great job so far! http://www.dukehealth.org/Services/cerebrovascular_center/Treatments/vein_of_galen_abnormalities neurosoltisk (talk) 18:43, 29 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps you could mention something about who Galen was in the intro of your article. I did not know who this was, and perhaps by adding a sentence that mentions who exactly this vein was named after and linking to his Wikipedia article, you could easily clear up this confusion. No additional research would be needed, although if you wanted to, there is a great deal of information about him. [|Galen at University of Virginia ]. Aceintheh0l3 talk 18:11, 29 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I really liked your introductory sentences. They were concise and anyone who is using Wikipedia for a quick definition of your subject would understand it right away with those sentences. The second sentence of your Anatomy section describes the vein as “the union of the thalamostriate vein and the choroid vein at the interventricular foramen.” Maybe just to help clarify this point, link these to their Wikipedia pages (the thalamostriate vein and the interventricular foramen do have wikis, the choroid vein does not) or maybe just use parentheses after to give a brief description of what they are. I think this would help those reading your page better understand what is going on/what veins from the different areas of the brain are coming together. Someone else has probably mentioned this by now, but you need a citation at the end of the first paragraph in the Anatomy section. In the Malformations section, the last two sentences confused me and took me a few times to read over before I completely understood. Maybe this is me just not understanding fully, but maybe you could re-write it in a more concise way to explain it better. Personally, I think shorter, straight-to-the-point sentences get the message across better than longer sentences and would help the average Wiki reader. This is just a suggestion. Also, maybe you can add in some of the effects this condition causes. I found a paper on aneurysm in the great cerebral vein and how in this one case, the patient responded well to surgical treatment: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC497378/?page=1. Perhaps you could include it in your paper just as a small section about possible future approaches to problems with the VG. Also, this link http://www.neurology.org/cgi/content/abstract/65/2/192 leads to paper about deep cerebral vein thrombosis and its effects on the body which you could link to your article to expand it. Is there any history of this you can add? Like when it was discovered or something along those lines? Other than that, I think you guys did a good job of being precise yet informative in your article. Good work.

MichelleMaglio (talk) 18:36, 29 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is a great, concise, and to the point article, but there's still some room for improvement. The provided illustrations are excellent. The anatomy section took me a few reads to understand completely, but that's only because of it's conciseness, so it's nothing that needs changing (though, I do agree with the above recommended change in the anatomy section). This section: "There are both superficial/external and deep/internal cerebral veins in the brain. The superficial veins at the dorsal parts of the hemispheres run upward and medially and empty into the large superior sagittal sinus in the upper margin of the falx cerebri. The superior sagittal sinus divides into two parts called the transverse sinuses where the falx cererbri meets the tentorium cerebelli. The sigmoid sinus, which continues the transverse sinus, empties into the jugular vein at the jugular foramen. The internal jugular vein leaves the skull and travels downward to the neck." is not clearly linked to the overall topic, at least that's how it seemed to me, maybe add a sentence or so linking it, or lose the section entirely. I have similar complaints with this: "The veins of the brain have very thin walls and contain no valves. They emerge in the brain and lie in the subarachnoid space. They pierce the arachanoid matter and the meningeal layer in the dura and drain into the cranial venous sinuses." mainly because it seems to just be superfluous information. You might want to add some more information in the Disorders and Diseases section (since there is currently only one listed), for example: http://www.springerlink.com/content/r7g0325173307678/fulltext.pdf It's not a great example, but it's another thing you could try adding. I agree with the above statement that you should see if you can add history about the discovery of the vein too, especially since Galen is such a big name in early anatomy. Great article though!

Jaykloo (talk) 23:32, 29 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The anatomy section is descriptive, however this article would be bolstered by a section describing the function of the Great Cerebral Vein. This would then allow a better transition into the Disorders and Diseases section of the Vein of Galen section. Also, the section of disorders and diseases is lacking in detail, and mention of other disorders that affect the Great Cerebral Vein and other disorders affected by the Great Cerebral Vein should be mentioned.

The nomenclature of the Great Cerebral Vein should be clarified and used consistently throughout the article.

Meidenbauer (talk) 02:51, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Overall, good article. Like the others, I liked that it was kept short, sweet and to the point. I do think, however, that you could possibly improve upon the Vein of Galen Aneurismal Malformations page that you have linked to. Since none of this information was included on your page, it would be helpful for that information to be a little more thorough. Under the medical care section, you could elaborate on what drugs are used (if you can find them, I was unable to) to treat the malformations, and also go into some detail about the mechanism that makes them effective. Other than that, nice work.lavallco (talk) 21:57, 29 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Possible Revisions

I think that your anatomy section is quite good and thorough. You have a good start on disorders and malformations but I think you can take that a but further with these few sites below:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1717608/ which talks about malformation and its connection to heart disease

You can find more disorders here and look them up to find out more information http://www.thefetus.net/page.php?id=139

This one talks about dilation of the vein and what effects that can have. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3683708

On a technical note:

You may want to call it Great Cerebral Vein instead of Vein of Galen because that is the title of the article (but that is not necessary, just a thought)
You also should probably link
- Thalamostriate and choroid veins
- pineal gland
- vein of galen in the intro and disorders sections
- the first time you use jugular vein
- jugular foreamen
- archanoid matter
- menigeal layer
- cranial venous sinuses

There are a few suggestions as to how you can continue your article. I hope you find some of those sites helpful. Good luck finishing this up and good start! liskak (talk) 23:01, 29 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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