Talk:Grand Concourse (Bronx)

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Rafael Monroy-Rojas.

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Untitled

The main article refers to the 1914 opening of the IND Concourse Line, but the Concourse Line did not open until 1933. In fact the IND system had not even been proposed as of 1914. The nearby Jerome Avenue El (the IRT Woodlawn Line) opened in 1917. This might have been what the author had in mind. I can't clear this up myself because I don't know enough about the history of the Grand Concourse to say what part of the original statement, that the 1914 opening of the Concourse Line encouraged people to move into housing along the Grand Concourse. Does anybody have any guesses? 69.141.29.225 04:15, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, you are correct about 1914 being an error and the article being incorrect. Actually it was the opening of the IRT Jerome Avenue line that spurred development of the west Bronx, including the Grand Councourse, given further impetus by the opening of the Concourse line in 1933. I will fix.--Mantanmoreland 14:28, 20 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

1870

"Risse first conceived of the road in 1870, as a means of connecting the borough of Manhattan to the parkway in the northern Bronx." Eh? What Bronx? West of the Bronx River and south of Yonkers was just various villages in the southwest end of Westchester County, right? What borough of Manhattan? Did New York have any boroughs at the time? And most difficult of all, what parkway, in 1870? Jim.henderson (talk) 19:06, 26 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Reference

In the references section, one article is described as being written by Constance Rosenbaum, but the author's name is Constance Rosenblum, as is seen when redirected to the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nyc803 (talk • contribs) 02:15, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I rewrote the ref to bluelight the newspaper name and date and omit the byline as per my usual practice for periodicals. If anyone thinks this a bad habit, go right ahead and improve it. Jim.henderson (talk) 00:14, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Jim, In every reference I've seen in 50 years of scholarship, the byline has been included. It's standard. Why omit? So I'm going to put back in, and try to spell the author's name properly this time;-) Bellagio99 (talk) 13:23, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ah. I'm an old Manhattanite but much newer to scholarship, and with this and other newspaper citations was following the example of other editors rather than looking in Wikipedia:Cite#Citation_styles which pretty agrees with you. Serves me right for following blindly the example of the blind. Thanks for catching me; I'll pay more attention to house style in future and hope to offer a better example for others to follow. Jim.henderson (talk) 05:53, 15 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Most graceful apology I've ever read on Wikipedia. Thanks. Bellagio99 (talk) 13:02, 15 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Design

This article says nothing about the design of the Concourse in regards to crossing traffic. The way that major cross streets intersect via underpasses is probably unique in New York City. How these came to be implemented (WPA??) deserves comment. Klausner (talk) 05:12, 15 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Working on this article for a class assignment

Hello, I will be contributing to this article soon for an assignment in my American Government class. some topics I may include are: gentrification and the "renewal" of the neighborhoods along the Grand Concourse, the play "Grand Concourse," the Dollar Savings Bank Building on Fordham, and the work done on the Grand Concourse as part of New Deal programs. Here are some sources that I may use (citations are in American Political Science Association style):

Hughes, C. J. 2014. “The Grand Concourse: Growing Signs of a Renewal.” The New York Times. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/30/realestate/the-grand-concourse-growing-signs-of-a-renewal.html (November 13, 2016).

O'Donnell, Angela Alaimo. 2014. “Lost in the Bronx.” America Magazine 211(14): 46–46. http://web.b.ebscohost.com.proxy.wexler.hunter.cuny.edu/ehost/detail/detail?sid=4f1148a4-0ad2-4a4b-9936-3bafd87fbd12@sessionmgr104&vid=0&hid=115&bdata=jnnpdgu9zwhvc3qtbgl2zq==#an=99204548&db=a9h (November 13, 2016).

Hu, Winnie. 2013. “Plans to Fix a Landmark and a Hole in Time.” The New York Times: A19. http://go.galegroup.com.proxy.wexler.hunter.cuny.edu/ps/retrieve.do?tabid=t004&resultlisttype=result_list&searchresultstype=singletab&searchtype=advancedsearchform¤tposition=1&docid=gale%7Ca354276113&doctype=article&sort=relevance&contentsegment=&prodid=aone&contentset=gale%7Ca354276113&searchid=r2&usergroupname=cuny_hunter&inps=true (November 13, 2016).

Hu, Winnie. 2013. “Can Bronx Be a Destination? The Hope Is for Nights at a Time.” The New York Times: A17. go.galegroup.com.proxy.wexler.hunter.cuny.edu/ps/retrieve.do?tabid=t004&resultlisttype=result_list&searchresultstype=singletab&searchtype=advancedsearchform¤tposition=1&docid=gale|a319253206&doctype=article&sort=relevance&contentsegment=&prodid=itof&contentset=gale|a319253206&searchid=r3&usergroupname=cuny_hunter&inps=true&authcount=1&u=cuny_hunter# (November 13, 2016).

Dolnick, Sam. 2010. “As Concourse Regains Luster, City Notices.” The New York Times: A23. web.a.ebscohost.com.proxy.wexler.hunter.cuny.edu/ehost/detail/detail?vid=3&sid=f461c824-5376-403f-954c-c60cc1389c93@sessionmgr4007&hid=4112&bdata=jnnpdgu9zwhvc3qtbgl2zq==#an=51596854&db=a9h (November 13, 2016).

Berger, Joseph. 2003. “Concourse Gets Used To Commerce; Street's Historic Character Clashes With Modernity.” The New York Times: B1–B6. web.a.ebscohost.com.proxy.wexler.hunter.cuny.edu/ehost/detail/detail?sid=897c07b5-afe1-4179-ad8a-bfb1a7ba47ae@sessionmgr4007&vid=0&hid=4112&bdata=jnnpdgu9zwhvc3qtbgl2zq==#an=10992912&db=a9h (November 13, 2016).

Waldman, Benjamin. 2013. “8 Architectural Gems along the Bronx’s Grand Concourse: County Courthouse, Post Office, Loew’s Paradise Theater, Poe Cottage.” untapped cities. http://untappedcities.com/2013/10/16/8-architectural-gems-along-the-bronx-grand-concourse-county-courthouse-post-office-loews-paradise-theater-poe-cottage/8/ (November 13, 2016).

I may also use some articles from The Encyclopedia of New York City. Rafael Monroy-Rojas (talk) 02:29, 14 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Recurring rat infestations and disease leading to a man's death

There is a Wikipedia user who argues that this content should not be included in the article on the grounds that "Wikipedia is not a newspaper":

"In 2017 a rat-spread epidemic of leptospirosis affected illegal apartments in Grand Concourse."

The source of the section is a New York Times article: "Rare Disease Strikes a Bronx Area All Too Familiar With Rats" (The New York Times - February 15, 2017) - The article stated that rat infestations had been a recurring issue in the community, and that a man died from the disease, which is not common in western countries.

I argued on his talk page that there are times when news events should be covered, because of the potential of long-term impact to the subject: User_talk:Bellagio99##Wikipedia:NOT a newspaper does not always exclude news "

Hi! this edit summary I need to make something clear. Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_newspaper is not meant to always exclude current events! It states "As Wikipedia is not a paper source, editors are encouraged to include current and up-to-date information within its coverage[...]"

In terms of internal article content that means considering whether the event will have commentary/lasting coverage. The New York Times article about the disease states that Grand Concourse has had recurring problems with rats, so the disease is a consequence of a longstanding problem, not just a one-off freak occurrence. It also has the unusual factor since that disease does not frequently occur in the West.

Another thing: IMO to always remove news events from articles is detrimental to articles, because what starts as a single news story can snowball into a whole controversy/permanent change for a community. Removing such things can prevent readers from knowing that it happened and doing further research, which means they add additional content to the the original content. Think of an article like a plant: you need to let it grow from an incomplete state. If you chop the sapling it won't grow.

By the way, if you wish to consider Wikipedia:Notability (events) remember that is meant to be a test of whether a topic gets its own article, not a guideline for internal article content."

The response from the Wikipedian was: "

Dear Whisper, I am in L.A. now. There is a lot of rain, and some flooding. There has been much rain for several months. Yet, this transient event should not be in the L.A. Wikipedia article.

Similarly, because there are some rat infestations in a limited area of the Bronx should not be notable. I am inclined to let my AGF revision stand. If you disagree, please take this discussion (in full) to the article's Talk page. And thanks for your care in editing Wikipedia"

I strongly disagree with that rationale. Firstly, there are daughter articles of Los Angeles (a very broad, general article which by definition must have its coverage trimmed) which can, and do, contain this type of information (especially if deaths/damage occur): they can be articles about the history of Los Angeles, the weather of Los Angeles, and/or specific neighborhoods. Neighborhood articles like this are supposed to be a repository of specific information and specific news. Any news discussing recurring issues/lasting impact on a neighborhood, especially one with commentary from major media, should be included. The "limited area of the Bronx" is the subject of this article.

Also the fact that the The New York Times of all publications took the time to write an article detailing this problem tells me that weight should be given to this aspect. WhisperToMe (talk) 03:12, 18 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This was covered by many more news outlets than just the NYT: ABC, CBS, NPR, Fox, NY Post, DNAInfo, &c covered it, too: Google search rats Concourse Bronx. This is not "routine news reporting" as mentioned at WP:NOTNEWS, so there's no reason to exclude it here. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 05:13, 18 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I have to agree that this doesn't belong in this article. First, the source specifically says that it is not an epidemic, and apparently is confined to one block of this unusually long street. Although tragic and disturbing, this really is short-term news that does not affect the Concourse as a whole and is not a defining event with long-term consequences to the street. If this belongs anywhere, it would be in the Melrose, Bronx article. Station1 (talk) 06:00, 18 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, and have put it in the Concourse, Bronx page. epicgenius (talk) 20:09, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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860 Grand Concourse

An article in an April New Yorker focuses on 860 Grand Concourse, north of the court house. Altho it is mostly about a doorman in that building who was an early covid death, there is a lot about the building. If someone would like to build it into the article, I can easily find the exact reference. I, personally, could not figure out how to do it. Bellagio99 (talk) 18:10, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The article in question is online at [1] Thanks for the heads-up. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 20:05, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It would be quite a challenge to integrate it into the article, though. The page focuses mostly on the road itself and the buildings and structures surrounding it. I don't know how this would be done, but someone can try. If there's a neighborhood article, it would fit better in there. epicgenius (talk) 19:59, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Bellagio99 and David Fuchs: I have added this and the rat-infestation section above to the Concourse, Bronx page. While tragic, this also has the same issues as the other section: WP:LASTING, as this event would not appear to have a lasting impact on either the road or its architecture. epicgenius (talk) 20:00, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]