Talk:Graduados

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Graduados/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Miyagawa (talk · contribs) 09:30, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

You've waited ages for a review, and I figure as a specialist reviewer who is familiar with the subject hasn't turned up in the meanwhile then I'll review the article. I'll give you fair warning - I'm not a Spanish speaker and so I might be asking some very daft questions which wouldn't come to someone more familiar with the sources.

One quick thing I noticed on a brief scan through the article, you've spelt "Official" wrong in the external links. Miyagawa (talk) 09:30, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Ok - review now. I figure I'd better do it before I settle in for the night and start my usual editing otherwise I'll simply forget and you'll end up waiting even longer for a review!

• Images: The two fair use ones have appropriate rationales and the two free use ones are well... free use. It might be worthwhile adding to the flashback image rationale about the makeup that Isabel Macedo was shown in the image (and referred to in the article).

• Duplicate links: I count 24 links, three of which are to Spanish language alone. I'd recommend turning on the duplicate link checker in Preferences -> Gadgets (I think its there). It really is handy.

• References: The end of the second paragraph of Dramatic topics is uncited, as is the first paragraph of music.
  • The 'Oh La La' cites - sometimes you've got them listed as 'Oh La La' and some as 'OhLaLa' and 'Ohlala'. You should probably stick to one.

• Plot: Typically with plot sections, the character name is followed by the actors name in brackets. You don't need to duplicate the ones in the lead (some people do, some don't, I don't mind) but you should do that at least for the ones in the plot that haven't already been mentioned in the lead.
  • Probably best if you refer to Andrés by that name throughout, as I think you refer to him as Andy and perhaps Andi and one point. It would just aid understanding that it was the same character.
  • "Pablo cheats María Laura with Patricia" - better as "Pablo cheats on María Laura with Patricia"

• Production: I noticed that you've put everything in present tense, when it should really be in past tense as it has already aired (i.e. "The comedy was written by Sebastian Ortega..." rather than "The comedy is written by Sebastian Ortega..."
  • You could probably insert links to LGBT rights in Argentina and school bullying.
    • I'm not sure dramatic reveals is a topic as such, isn't it more of a method? Or do you mean that the actual topics being revealed dramatically?

• Creation: "would have been starred by Andy Kusnetzoff" better as "would have starred Andy Kusnetzoff"
  • "who had nostalgia of the 1980s" to "who were nostalgic for the 1980s"
  • "because of his work at the radio" - not sure the relevance of this, did you mean it turned down the role because of radio roles or was there something specific you had in mind?
  • "but with the secondary character Tuca" better as "but as the secondary character Tuca"
  • "made a cameo of six episodes" better as "made cameos in six episodes"
  • "Juan Leyrado plays a grandfather for the time in his career" - first time?
  • "pointed that he is not used to act in comedies" better as "pointed out that he does not normally appear in comedies"
  • "and agreed to work in the series by suggestion of his wife" - I'd suggest a change to avoid repeating work twice in the sentence, so it becomes "and agreed to do so following the suggestion from his wife".
  • "The scenes of the high school years of the main characters, a recurring plot element, are made with flashbacks" - I'm thinking that it would probably be more straight forward as "The high school years of the main characters are represented through flashbacks, which are used as a recurring plot element."
  • Better to refer to them as costume designers rather than dressers.
  • "The guest actor Pablo Echarri interpreted the coach during the trip" - I don't know what that means.
  • "15 years birthday" better as "15th birthday party"

• Music: "to play short cameos" better as "to make cameo appearances"
  • "Charly García acted as himself in the program" better as "played himself" rather than "acted as himself"
  • "For this production Fito Páez retrieved the look he had at the time of the release of the album Giros, which is slightly different from his modern one." I can see what you're trying to say, but it needs to be rephrased for clarity.
  • "made a cameo during the spring day" - this also needs to be clarified, is it a particular episode?
  • "in Twitter" -> "on Twitter"
  • "mere jealously reactions" -> "being jealous"

Gonna take a break there and review the remaining sections tomorrow. Miyagawa (talk) 20:31, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

I'm going to place this one on hold, as at least up to ten days ago there were still edits ongoing. I'll give this one another ten days as I'm hesitant simply to close this due to the time you had to wait for the nomination. You may want to try putting this through the guild of copy editors however as the prose isn't great. Miyagawa (talk) 15:39, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Done. Sorry for the delay, I have limited time in internet lately. Cambalachero (talk) 01:52, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

No problem. What might be best is if you nominate this for a copy edit by the guild. That might take up to a month to do however, which is longer than an article is normally kept on hold at GAN. So what I propose is that if you nominate the article there, I'll give this one a fail for now here - but as soon as its gone through the guild, re-nominate it and leave me a message and I'll review it once more immediatly. You waited absolutely ages for a review and I don't want it to seem like you're being fobbed off and potentially having to wait that long again for another GA review. Would that be acceptable? Miyagawa (talk) 12:02, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

OK Cambalachero (talk) 12:14, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Copyedit

I'm planning to copyedit this article; I'll leave any questions I have here. I don't read Spanish so if I change the meaning of something please let me know. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:59, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

• Should Underground contenidos have a capital C for the second word, or is this a Spanish orthography convention I'm not aware of? Incidentally, why does that article have a definition sentence starting "Underground Producciones"? Should that article be moved to Underground Producciones?
• The first paragraph of the plot starts in 1989 and then jumps to the present-day, but it's not clear when. Is the sentence "Clemente is the owner of a successful dog food company called McCan" the first one set in the present day? Or was he a successful businessman in 1989 too?
• I changed the description of Victoria Lauría from "bachelor" to single woman; I assume this was some kind of mistranslation.
• The "Production" section starts by saying "The series was written by Sebastián Ortega"; should this be "produced by"? The infobox gives writing credits to Ernesto Korovsky, Silvina Frejakes, and Alejandro Quesada. The source cited, here, doesn't seem to say anything about Ortega, unless I'm missing something.

  Another source given does credit Ortega as creator, so I've moved that sentence to the "creation" section and cited it to that source.

• I changed the reference to Ximena Díaz Alarcón as I'm not convinced Trendsity is notable, and even if it is, it's more informative for the reader to explain that she is a consumer trends expert that to name her company, which most readers won't have heard of.
• Still on Ximena Díaz Alarcón: the Google translation of her quote is: "Today, 80 are far enough away to be idealized and close enough to laugh at earlier versions of yourself", which isn't quite what the article says. I think it would be better to give what she says in direct quotes (translated, of course) and give the Spanish in the footnote. If the Google translation is accurate as to sense then I can copyedit it to be more natural, so let me know if that's OK.
• The two psychologists cited give these quotes (Google translated) in the article cited: "All people wonder how their lives would have been if they had done nothing Graduate aims to rethink that cute side last time we went and what we could be"; "Spoiled woman, hippie, canchero, delirious, opportunists attorney, overbearing mother, the innocent, the father put almost all stereotypes of modern society are reflected"; "The Graduate protagonists belong to a generation that is 40 years old today. Encouraged by social networks, their encounters with the couple invite balances, comparison between what was planned and what actually materialized"; and "Men have more permission to connect to their sensitivity and their affections, women become independent, decide for themselves, frames reflect these trends". I don't think these can support the current text in the article, unless the Google translation has missed something: "Psychologists Magalí Popiloff and Mariela Mociulsky said that the teenagers of the 1980s are now in their forties and may experience midlife crises, and many met old friends through online social networks". It looks to me as if the useful quote is the third one, starting "The Graduate protagonists". I'm going to drop the reference to Popiloff and change this to better match the source -- let me know if I screw anything up.

  Done; I don't quite see how to work the reference to social networks in. If you can explain to me what Mociulsky is saying in that sentence I'll try to put it back in.

• "Initially, the series would have starred Andy Kusnetzoff, and it would have been named "El paseaperros" (Spanish: The dog walker). The initial idea featured a dog-walker and his two friends, who were nostalgic about the 1980s." The source for this is here, but I don't see anything there are about two friends, or nostalgia about the 1980s. Also, can you confirm that the series would have "starred" Kusnetzoff? I can't see anything in the translated page that would indicate that.

  I found another reference that mentions Kusnetzoff was offered a starring role, and used that.

• "Hendler was already part of the cast as the secondary character Tuca, who was played by Mex Urtizberea after Hendler was cast as Andrés": the second half of this sentence isn't sourced from the source given, which is here.
• "Paola Barrientos' mother is a psychologist and influenced her character": I don't see anything in the source about her mother influencing the character -- can you point me at the bit used to source that?
• "She accepted a role in Graduados for the dichotomy of the Patricia/Jimena character because it was something she had not done before. Initially, the dichotomy was intended to last for ten episodes but Macedo insisted that the production maintained it until the end." Dichotomy isn't really a colloquial word here. I think this refers to the secret of her real identity being kept for longer than ten episodes. I've copyedited assuming that's correct; please confirm.

  I've edited the "Creation" section and cleaned up some of the issues above. I took out a couple of things I thought were fairly minor; please let me know if you think I deleted something significant.

• "Her character developed significantly over the series; the episode in which she reveals her true identity was well received." (This is copyedited a bit from the version I started work on.) The source for this is here; it's very short, and really doesn't say that the character developed over the series, unless I'm missing something in the translation. Is there a better source for this, or can I cut that half of the sentence?
• "To compete with the premiere of Sos mi hombre on a rival channel, and as a celebration for the 100th episode": the given source doesn't say either of these things. I'm going to cut that sentence; please let me know if you have a source for either one.
• "The program made extensive use of 1980s music, usually 1980s Argentine rock. Many songs were used as diegetic music, for instance in Vero Diorio's amateur radio, in nightclubs or in the characters' conversations. Other songs were used as incidental music." As far as I can tell this isn't supported by the given source, here. I'm going to cut most of the sentence and merge it with the next one; if I'm wrong, or another source exists, let me know and I'll reinstate it.
• "Graduados maintained its leading position for the rest of the season": the citation given only discusses a vote among the readership. If a good source can be found for the ratings (from the es.wikipedia version I know it had leading ratings most episodes, but I can't get that source to work) then it would be good to add that.
• "The last episode of the series was broadcast live from the Gran Rex theater in a ceremony hosted by Marley": who is Marley? There's no mention of a Marley in the source that I can see.

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:15, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

I've completed the copyedit; everything I had a question about above is either resolved or cut. I'll watch this page in case you want to disagree with anything I've done. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:47, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I will check it. Cambalachero (talk) 22:31, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Graduados/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: TheQ Editor (talk · contribs) 15:54, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

I see this article has been nominated for a long time. I'm going to accept this. Give me a few days or so to review it. Thanks, TheQ Editor (Talk) 15:54, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Review

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, no copyvios, spelling and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Notes

Well written

• needs to wikify the section Plot.
• and the characters use 1980s Argentine slang -doesn't flow
• wikilink nostalgia
• `The high school -What does ` mean?
• Known as Loli, she has sex with Andres during their graduation night in 1989 Andres should be Andrés
• Add periods in the "Cast" section
• wikilink "Twitter" in the section "Internet"

Referencing

• ref 51 is a dead link. Consider using WayBackMachine
• the Plot section contains original research.
• the Cast section contains original research.

Broadness

• As of February 2013, Sebastian Ortega and the cast had agreed to produce another season of Graduados, after a year off, and Telefe had started talks aimed at bringing the series back -did the series come back or no? Or is it still unknown?

NPOV

• confidant and ally-no source to go with it

Stability

• All good

Images

• All good

Done. It has been almost a year since I first nominated the article; I did not suspect that anything in it may get outdated (note that the new telenovela made instead of Graduados II is still in production and has not been aired yet). I replaced the dead link with another one with a similar content. As for plot and cast (with the brief descriptions of the characters), have in mind that references are not usually required: the source is the work itself. Saying that a character is a confident and ally of another character is just a basic description of a typical relation between characters; see here for a description of the concept and several examples. Cambalachero (talk) 17:59, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

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