Talk:Girls' Generation/Archive 1

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This page is an Archive of the discussions from Girls' Generation talk page (Discussion page). (January 2009 - December 2010) - Please Do not edit!

Article issues (or why I rollbacked to my last edit)

Please note that Wikipedia is not a fansite. There is no need to list trivial information such as height, weight, and nicknames of members; such information is better left to actual fansite profiles. Also, please do not insert biased information, such as saying that "Gee" was a HUGE hit. Instead, demonstrate how it was a huge hit, by showing sales figures, #1s, etc etc. Thanks in advance. SKS2K6 (talk) 18:49, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Information is information. Stop being overly traditional. I'm very interested in trivia and so are many other people. As it is often less important information, simply position it lower on the page if you like, but don't remove it. Things like nicknames and height are perfectly acceptable as well, though such information would be more appropriately placed on the individual member pages, rather than on the main group page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.246.252.200 (talk) 00:13, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Anti-fans

I'd like to kindly request someone who knows what's going on to add a section about its critics or "anti-fans". I heard about it at http://www.journalfen.net/community/fandom_wank/1165126.html?mode=reply (not a reliable source, obviously, though its sources are sometimes reliable) and would like to know more, if possible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.125.244.210 (talk) 08:41, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Most Korean music groups/actors/media persons have so-called "Anti Fans" - it's common phenomenon among the Korean fanclub scene, however I believe it should not be mentioned in the artist's pages (unless something notable has happened among those Anti's), but on the page of Korean popular music.

As for the silent protest filed unter "critism" - the link doesn't work and there is no explanation given as to why there was a silent protest against them - if this is just about their fanclub having a feud with other fanclubs, I think it should be deleted, because it's not notable, as Wikipedia is an Encyclopedia and about feuding fans. Plus, I think this will keep future trolling down. Anyone for/against that? Best regards, --Plumcouch ^Talk2Me 00:52, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree with the part about most groups/celebrities having anti-fans, but this was a notable incident, to the point where if you look at the page history, you'll see that the information was added in many, many times. This was the version that stayed the most stable because it was a sourced statement that didn't speculate on reasons why. (The link works for me, so I'm not sure what you mean by "dead link". It's a news article on Newsen in Korean.) You can feel free to remove it, considering that it's older news that may not be considered notable anymore (by that, I mean that editors won't keep adding/removing). I'm indifferent, to be honest. :P SKS2K6 (talk) 01:11, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

There are reasons for the Dream Concert '08 protest against SNSD. However based on past history and experience with this topic, if anyone tries to explain the details of what and why it happened on that day to SNSD, it will only snowball into something so big that people will be editing/deleting constantly. For the most part the reasons for the protest are all over anti-fan/fan sites, you can google it. Therefore the reasons CAN'T be written because anti fans sites are not acceptable sources under Wiki rules. The link is not broken, it is a respectable Korean newspaper explaining the "tragedy" that happened at the Dream Concert. There are many things that are debatable but none are "not notable." For example, Japan tries to rewrite history in their textbooks about how they didn't try to conquer the Pacific in WW2 and that they were just "helping" their struggling brothers yet we still document the atrocities that were committed to Korean and Chinese women. Should we not talk about what happened during the holocaust so that Germans and Jewish people can kiss and make up? To say that we should delete an event that has clearly happened because of possible feuds and the potential of people clashing is preposterous. As long as the information is from a respected source then it is alright. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.224.133.221 (talk) 02:59, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Protest removal

So another editor removed the section, and considering a) the edit-warring over the section, and b) the dated-ness of it, I don't feel it's prudent to keep re-adding it. Thoughts? SKS2K6 (talk) 20:22, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

• sigh* Never mind, it's been re-added. If you have any problems with it, please discuss it here first. Thank you. SKS (talk) 22:15, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I would like to understand why people would delete the SNSD Dream protest under controversy. Some people said it's not relevant. If they believe that then I can make the same argument about knowing SNSD members' age, hobbies, where they live, where they went to HS, etc., is irrelevant, it doesn't help you in any way. The event happened and people who want to know should be able too. It is not vandalism nor is it slander, it's the truth. It HAPPENED, I can't believe having just one sentence will get people all rallied up to delete it. That is like deleting any other protest thoughout history, would it be ok to South Koreans protest on U.S. beef imports? I hope people can understand this and accept the truth rather then being ignorant by pretending like certain events never happened. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.190.2.93 (talk) 13:06, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

The only problem with the section is that it needs elaboration. There is no information regarding the purpose of the protest and the only source is in Korean. A bit more info would help make the section more relevant. GravyFish (talk) 03:35, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Plastic surgery?

I heard each member of the group has had some form of plastic surgery - is that true and if so, is it relevant enough? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.255.197.173 (talk) 02:52, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

It would be relevant, if it was properly sourced. Right now, though, everything is rumours and speculation, and therefore it's not suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia. As the article deals with living people, it has to fall under the strict guidelines of biographies of living people. SKS2K6 (talk) 03:44, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

"Hearing" something from someone does not count as a relevant source, nor do comparing pictures or netizen rumors. The only thing that will allow you to include plastic surgery is if they actually go to a hospital and get themselves checked for plastic surgery, such as what Lee Hyori did. Or if the doctor/artist in question comes out and literally says they had plastic surgery. Other than that, you can not add it in. SpikeNeedle (talk) 22:02, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

How about adding a new section for a list of CF they have done?

As we all know, they have done lots of CFs since their debut. I suggest we make a section for it.

It may fall under trivia, but if you can find sources that are not fansites/blogs/fancafes, then add them in. Personally, I'd prefer a separate section like on Lee Hyori, though, instead of a list. SKS (talk) 16:19, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, does sites like youtube count?

YouTube doesn't count as far as I know. People can post anything there even if they don't own rights and content can be removed at any time. Monni (talk) 11:44, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

SNSD's extended controversies and alleged racism

I honestly think that SNSD should have more information of their controversies, which is a lot more information to the controversy section. Like the situations with SNSD member, Tiffany not respecting her musical elders such as DBSK and Super Junior. And Taeyeon's alleged racist comment against the singer, Alicia Keys. I think that the article should include more on these situations due to the fact that these are relevant to the group's image and behavior in the media, and the overall purpose of having a controversy section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stipidstid (talk • contribs) 03:14, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

The key word in what you wrote is alleged. We need concrete sources proving these allegations; otherwise, it's just netizen chatter. SKS (talk) 04:03, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, i actually do have proof of the situations and I will be putting them up. I just needed approval. Alleged was the word used in the article. there are videos and everything about all these situations.

Please sign with your comments by typing in ~~~~ please. Also, please be very careful, because biographies of living people have very strict standards. Even if a newspaper reports on rumours, if they leave it as such and don't confirm it, it's still rumours and speculation. SKS (talk) 15:35, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Numerous "accounts" and proof of these incidents are mostly made up by anti-fans or blown out of proportion. If the parties involved have categorically denied any controversy, or have said nothing about it, it should be considered a rumour or speculation. Also, I have moved the controversy section below the Reality Shows section, as I believe that knowing who the members are is more important than any controversy. This also fits in with the Super Junior article where the controversy section is at the bottom of the page above the Awards section. Einhart (talk) 17:16, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Many of these "accounts" are just netizen speculation. We don't need anti-fan rumors roaming around every wikipedia page, this is an encyclopedia not a gossip column. If they are not reported in a legitimate media section, and the artist in question has not acknowledged ever saying such a thing in the context given upon, then it is not viable to be put into an encyclopedia. Innocent until proven guilty. SpikeNeedle (talk) 21:50, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

'Alleged racism'? For god's sake, are you serious? There was exactly ONE case where a SNSD member could have been accused of 'racism' and even that was more a slip of a tongue than anything(although I do believe it was a bad mistake). If we're going to add controversies, let's add the substantial ones that deserve to be part of an encyclopedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.159.113.4 (talk) 05:23, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually, if you translate the words she said on her radio show verbatim, she didn't say anything racist at all, nor did she imply it. The only people who were circulating this rumor were the international fans, being that their source mistranslated her words and posted a mis-subbed video on youtube, and disabled the comments section. She apologized for the sake of angry fans, not because she did anything wrong. Therefore: Why would it be necessary to include any rumor that is 'alleged' anyways? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.98.243.34 (talk) 06:16, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Excessive vandalism

{{editsemiprotected}}

There are so many Anti-fans than before.

-- Kookyunii (talk) 10:37, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure you meant to use that template. What that does is request a change to an article that is Semi-protected, meaning non-confirmed users and IPs can't edit it. You are autoconfirmed. Moreover, this article isn't semi-protected. I have a feeling you wanted to request semi-protection, which is done here. ~ Amory (user • talk • contribs) 12:41, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

I would also propose this page to become a B-class or A-class importance article as this page has been edited and many portions has been deleted with either no valid reason or deleted as there isn't any "sources", which is getting more and more excessive. But, those information were indeed true and is part of the auto-biography of what they had done since they first started. Something must be done to stop them.

--Everyroadpay 10:14, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Pictures of members

Looking at SNSD being a 9 members group, I think it might be difficult for anyone who's not familar with them to identify each members. (As in "ok.. I know TaeYeon is the leader, I understand what's written about her, but most importantly, how does she looks like?") Adding clear and easily to distingush pictures of each members may help in such case. Doing so may also make an article that's talking about a fun subject less 'nerdy'.

TL T 09:49, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

P.S: Please do not flame if you finds this idea against the WIKI GUIDELINES. Just say so.

Pictures are fine, but they must follow wiki guidelines. Specifically, they must be free pcitures that have absolutely no "rights" issues associated with them. So in other words, they can't be single covers or promo images from SM or anything like that because those belong to SM. Basically the only images that are allowed would be any that you took yourself or any fan-taken pictures of sites like flickr. I think WP:FIT explains how to obtain pictures quite well. SKS (talk) 13:43, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

2008–2009: Other activities, return with mini-albums

Please, you need consider the information published en the third paragraph:

"Gee" is the record holder for the longest-running #1 on music portal M.net (for 8 weeks), surpassing the previous record of 6 weeks set by the Wonder Girls' "Nobody".[9][10]

This information is a factual error. According to the "Top Ten" of KBS World Radio (http://world.kbs.co.kr/spanish/enter/music_top.htm?Rank_Date=2009-02-15)Girls Generation only hold Gee in first place by 3 weeks: 02-08-2009 02-15-2009 02-22-2009

This song to have a fall abrupt.

Wonder Girls hold Nobody by 4 weeks in first place. The information is correct. 10-12-2008 10-19-2008 10-26-2008 11-09-2008

But the descent of Nobody was graduated, very slow.

Thank you.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.248.55.128 (talk • contribs) 20:32, 18 September, 2009 (UTC)

 Not done As per the article, please note that Korea does NOT have a consolidated chart, unlike the US (with Billboard) and other countries; this means that each chart will differ. The article clearly notes that this was for the M.Net chart. And the KBS World Radio chart does not follow any other chart, including its own TV chart (for Music Bank). SKS (talk) 20:40, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Revamping this article.

I plan to completely redo this article, preferably in the next few weeks if I have time. I'm saving all my edits in wordpad for now, and I'll post them all at once. Expect at least 20+ more references, a separate section for awards, and a more informative article. SpikeNeedle (talk) 01:50, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Protest/Controversy/Fanclub rivalries sections

As I previously stated here: [1] I believe that any section on controversy should be placed below and not above the member profiles and discography sections, in line with the Super Junior article. Therefore, I have placed it under the Awards section.

I have changed the name of Fanclub Rivalries section back to Controversy as there is no official reference to other fanclubs being behind the source of the album cover issue, and it seems like an attempt to push the blame to other fanclubs rather than actual facts.

Please cite proper news sources whenever editing the controversies section, as they are sensitive issues. Einhart (talk) 05:20, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Although I agree with you on the changes (I left it alone after two reverts due to WP:3RR), just because Super Junior lists it in a specific way does not mean that every single page has to follow that example (it's not even a good article at this point, let alone featured). The listed sections (like Discography, Awards, and Tours) are usually the last two sections in articles (see U2, Mariah Carey, and Gwen Stefani, all featured articles). Having the controversy section after awards makes it seem out of place. SKS (talk) 05:31, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

You can't really compare, since those other artists you mentioned don't have any controversies sections at all; the closest would be U2's Campaigning and Activism section. If there's a consensus on moving the section above the discography section, I wouldn't mind the change, as long it's not placed above Member Profiles since the purpose of an article is to find out information about the band, not their alleged controversies. Einhart (talk) 16:12, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, normally, it's integrated into the article instead of having its own section. SKS (talk) 17:09, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Still not satisfied with the content of this section. I'm leaving it alone due to 3RR (again) but I do not believe it passes WP:NPOV. Ledward (talk) 07:43, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

If you're talking about the new additions to the Controversy (or should I say "Notable Incidents") section, I removed it because it's obviously non-neutral and in favor of SNSD. It also does not represent what the Korean media think as a whole on the issue. Someone963852 (talk) 13:47, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Awards

Shouldn't their Mutizen and #1 wins be included in the Awards section? Small5th (talk) 16:50, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Generally speaking, if you look at English songs on Wikipedia, they do not list country #1s in their awards section. As such, why should Korean songs list them? Mutizen/Inkigayo #1s are just chart #1s. Sure, they're notable, and they should be mentioned in the article, but it's not an awards per se. SKS (talk) 17:16, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

But the #1 in Music Bank/Inkigayo really does have awards. As in the trophies. I don't know much. Just suggesting that these are awards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.132.228.20 (talk) 13:58, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

They are awards, but they're trivial and not as important. You wouldn't want the awards box to be filled with 100+ TV #1s they got every year. Someone963852 (talk) 15:06, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

I swear all of the awards listed on the awards section are true because its from different FAMOUS websites. Madz67 (talk) 15:50, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Refer to my comment above. Also voting by journalists, polls on the internet are not awards. Someone963852 (talk) 12:35, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Should "2009 Nickelodeon Korea Kids Choice Awards: Best Female Singer Award" be added to the awards section? I noticed this award in previous years has been listed on other wiki pages. Source is: http://www.mydaily.co.kr/news/read.html?newsid=200904121057211114 & http://sookyeong.wordpress.com/2009/04/12/big-bang-and-yoo-jae-seok-voted-on-nick-kids-choice-for-the-2nd-consecutive-year/ Catehills (talk) 04:39, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Sure? K-Bites isn't a legit source, though. MyDaily should be acceptable. SKS (talk) 05:24, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

The main article of the awards recieved by the group should not be merged with this article because its too long and many for this article. Madz67 (talk) 02:27, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

No, it's a fine length. See Mariah Carey's awards, or even TVXQ's awards, for a long list. SKS (talk) 18:57, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Stop removing their awards from the 1st Melon Music Awards because thry really indeed won. Madz67 (talk) 16:35 27 December 2009 (UTC)

I agree. Please stop removing their awards, especially the 1st Melon Music Awards. Those awards are cited, so it's not fair that they're removed, especially when they are big awards. If the awards are cited, I think they should be left alone because it supports the fact that SNSD won them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ohjsnsd (talk • contribs) 06:54, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

2ne1 , G-dragon , kara & brown eyed girls all have added the melon awards to the awards list so why snsd do not have the right to put it ??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.252.46.195 (talk) 19:43, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Just wanna add. There are lots of awards out there but not all of them are awards. Think before you put it. Are the people behind those awards deserve to be giving out awards? Is the award itself worth mentioning? We can't put every single award that SNSD are given. It would just make the worthy recognitions worthless. Windarcher (talk) 15:07, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Seriously; why does their Awards from MelOn aren't included? In fact the other artists who won the MelOn had it on their profile. Madz67 (talk) 17:42, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

They have recieved a award from the 1st Philippine Kpop Convention Awards as MusicVideo of the Year for "Gee". Is this considered as an award. It was held on Yuri's birthday (Dec. 5,09). http://kpopcon.info/the-first-philippine-kpop-awards-winners/ Madz67 (talk) 15:24, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

The two above, you're going off-topic, please refrain from going off-topic, if you want to say something related, make a sub-article. As for the Melon Awards, it should be included as other groups have had the award. Until this issue is resolved, I will be removing the Melon Awards from other groups. --72.235.205.253 (talk) 03:31, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Is there any sources that states that Melons Awards is not a official award? Moreover awards are recognitions for their doings. Whether it is official or non-official its still an award given to them, and they deserved to be recognized for their efforts.

Also, I have just removed some comments from anonymous users due to violation of the talk page guidelines, such as Capital Letters and threatening other people (personal attack) to remove information from other pages, and personal details. If anyone wants to comment, please refer to the talk page guidelines before commenting --Everyroadpay 10:09, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Break

Can we actually get some input from people? What do you guys think? All we have are people repeatedly adding/removing/adding/removing the awards (or saying they should be removed/added/removed/added), and now they have been removed from most K-pop articles. SKS (talk) 01:06, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Personally I think whole awards section is trivial information. It should be included inline in "Biography" section of a solo artist/member or "History" section of a group/band. Professionally, I would still say we should stick to biggest and most notable award giving bodies and skip all fan/community awards and awards given by TV channels/networks or online shopping sites. Monni (talk) 07:24, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Well, considering how the Korean award system works, this would eliminate most of the awards, other than the Seoul Music Awards and the Golden Disk Awards. Maybe that's not a bad idea.... SKS (talk) 13:49, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

I back the idea of removing all fan/community awards. However, it's a matter of differentiating between notable awards and a non notable awards, this is pretty much what has to be established here :/ + ThermoNuclear ☢ 21:32, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Like I said earlier, a strict definition would allow only the Seoul Music Awards and the Golden Disk Awards..... So any network/website awards would not be allowed, right? SKS (talk) 01:06, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Right, we'll just have to make sure the other awards are at least mentioned in the history section. However, judging from prior experience, this might cause ips and users to go on a WP:POINT quest, and start a mass deletion of the "non notable" awards from other K-pop pages. + ThermoNuclear ☢ 21:47, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

I think it's fair to add the awards that other artists have on display on their pages as well because that's just not fair seeing other artists with the Melon Awards or other awards on their pages and not having those awards on SNSD's page because SNSD won them fair and square. If you guys are doing the whole big awards thing, then other kpop pages better be doing the same. On a side note, SNSD won another award from GAON chart (Billboard of Korea). That should definitely on the award section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ohjsnsd (talk • contribs) 03:22, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

please add the award that snsd won in goan (korean billboard ) SNSD won the digital music award —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.252.17.245 (talk) 09:56, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes I agreed to what you said. Melons is indeed an award, but it's just that some people do not accept this as award. --Everyroadpay 11:41, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

today snsd won ..Cyworld Digital Music Awards 2009: Top 10 & why did you delete the goan chart : digital music of 2009 & can you give the source of 5th Foreign Compensation Hong: Singer Division —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.252.30.95 (talk) 15:47, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Singles

I'm curious...what constitutes as a "single" to them? For I thought Gee was their only Single on that album...but I saw Him Nae was included. Also Etude was included in the "Genie album" as a single, but I have never seen a music video for that single. If Etude was considered a single, should Dear Mom be included as one too? Small5th (talk) 03:00, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

I have always stated this: a "single" is a song that had full promotion, like "Gee" or "Genie". Any song that was never properly promoted (like "Himnae" or "Etude" is not. I mean, for North American artists, singles are songs that are released to radio, not necessarily the songs promoted on talk shows. The same should apply for Korean artists as well. SKS (talk) 05:25, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

In that case...should we change the box in the bottom to not include "Etude" and "Him Nae?" I've changed it constantly but someone keeps changing it back. 24.6.23.45 (talk) 17:39, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Too many endorsements listed

Too many magazine/endorsement photoshoots are mentioned that aren't dated or referenced. Is it better to remove them?--Daydreamer198 (talk) 07:27, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

I think that a list of endorsements without any background or commentary falls under trivia. I mean, does it matter that they've had many endorsements? If it does, then it should be proven so; a simple list demonstrates no proof. A notable one would be the Anycall advertisements, that received a lot of media attention and promotion; this would be notable. The mere fact that SNSD did a ramyun commercial isn't. Many celebrities have endorsements; the fact by itself isn't notable. So taht's why I tend to remove such sections, although of course many fans disagree. SKS (talk) 05:28, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, as an answer to your question, endorsements are a big deal in K-Pop. A veteran editor of this article such as yourself is probably already aware of this. The entire music industry is a pseudo-beauty pageant designed to create an individual as a marketing vehicle, and endorsements bring in the real income. Any analyst of the Korean music market would tell you he same thing. A debutant artist earning their first deal is as big as musical recognition. All endorsements, therefore, are incredibly relevant.

In the specific ramyun example you give, Samyang Ramyun was one of the first ramyun produced in Korea. To land this kind of deal says a lot about who you are. Oniontx (talk) 23:23, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

"Controversy" section placement; in order of importance

Wasn't it decided already that the controversy section be placed BELOW the profiles, history and all? I believe there are users that are diligently watching and safeguarding this article. If it IS decided to place the controversy section above all the other sections, I strongly disagree. It would be emphasizing on "What's wrong with SNSD?" rather than "Who is SNSD?", which is the point of a wikipedia article in the first place (The "Who" part, not the "What's wrong?" part). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 9Placebo ace (talk • contribs) 09:32, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Generally speaking, most articles have commentary/prose above any non-commentary/prose sections (so basically, words and paragraphs above lists). Most articles have controversial sections integrated in the actual biography rather than a separate section. SKS (talk) 20:16, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm comparing it with Super Junior's article. It doesn't seem to be so :P

By the way, someone is having biased control over how this article is shaped. Yes, there are rules and regulations to follow, and for good reason. But at the end of the day, the article will clearly reveal the true (fan/anti-fan) nature of the majority of the articles' "guardians". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bla8mer (talk • contribs) 17:34, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

"Times of Girls" — really?

I'm in danger of 3rr in spirit if I remove it again, but i hope I'm not the only one who sees issues with this title. It's unsourced, it's never been used as far as I can tell to refer to the girls, and as I've said in my edit summaries, their name is "Girls' Generation" (which I suppose could mean "Times of Girls" when literally translated, but why does the translation need to be there???????). SKS (talk) 08:37, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

You're not alone, I've never heard them being referred to as "Times of Girls". I'm just assuming that the editor is in good faith, and reverted their last addition of the newly coined term. But I think further warnings are needed if the user carries on. ^N_P^e_e^e_r^b_v^s_e^s_z (Push) 10:10, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/art/2007/07/201_7059.html --Dr. Crisp (talk) 06:43, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Though that was predebut since no official English name had been announced - yet SM Ent refers to the group as Girls' Generation to this day. + TNW 09:29, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

"Time of Girls" isn't quite correct even to begin with. The 시대 translates to an "Age" or "Era", as in "Stone Age" which would be 석기시대 etc Oniontx (talk) 14:55, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Members' Profile

There is no point to them, and having them on without any sources isn't helping the section (it could be challenged and removed at anytime). I am going to delete it because the article is about the group, and that section is not necessary (what difference would it make with or without it on really??). Other groups such as Wonder Girls doesn't have their members' profile, including numerous American bands. Therefore, I am going to delete.75.72.105.60 (talk) 16:00, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

I suppose it's true. The only members who's really worth noting already have their own pages, so I guess we don't need it.AhnSoonKyung (talk) 16:18, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Good articles like TVXQ do not have member lists, I agree with the ip, it's best if they are deleted. They aren't even sourced as well. ^N_P^e_e^e_r^b_v^s_e^s_z (Push) 17:44, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

I guess it would be sensical to delete the reality TV shows section, since it is unsourced and is already mentioned in the History section. Being in a list it merely falls under trivia. ^N_P^e_e^e_r^b_v^s_e^s_z (Push) 17:49, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

I actually disagree with removing the members profiles, because they have enough solo activities to warrant at least a section, if not another article. I think out of the remaining 7 with no standalone articles, Jessica stands out, with her musicals, her duet with Park Myung Soo, and whatnot. SKS (talk) 22:06, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

However, none of it was sourced, and the section was always up for fan trivia. Plus, each member did not do much, all the section included were a few collaborations and a few shows that they hosted, nothing extraordinary. I personally agree with you on the fact that Jessica probably should get her own article, given her out of group activities. ^N_P^e_e^e_r^b_v^s_e^s_z (Push) 09:42, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

But is it possible if we just re-enter their profile and not write more about their achievements? Everyroadpay 09:59, 2 January 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Everyroadpay (talk • contribs)

There's no point, might as well just leave it, since the members are already listed down in the infobox, things like positions (which really are not official) are not needed as well as DOBs, etc... since they are more trivial info. ^N_P^e_e^e_r^b_v^s_e^s_z (Push) 10:44, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi, it would be nice if you added Jessica's profile since she did a lot of contributions and solo activities. Thank you! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.81.13.99 (talk) 03:11, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

No profile is needed so stop requesting it or putting it back up. AhnSoonKyung (talk) 03:20, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

I would disagree that it's not needed, per se. There has been notable work done by the members (solo releases, TV hosting, dramas, etc.) that currently isn't noted in the article. It just wouldn't work in its past state, being a mishmash of trivia and unsourced info. SKS (talk) 04:21, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Suggestion, why don't you just make a separate page for members who are worth profiling. I mean members who have done a lot like Taeyeon and Yoona. If you think about it, the page is about SNSD not the members. So what if Yuri has MC duties and a cast in Invicible Youth? I mean what does it have to do with SNSD as a whole. I agree that a member profile is not needed. Wonder Girls, Big Bang and SUper Junior doesn't have any. —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Archangel23 (talk • contribs) 13:46, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

SJ & BB have solo pages for each of their members; before then, the info was on the main page. If the information is notable, but the person not necessarily notable enough for their own page, then it is acceptable to have a members section in the group page. I'm not necessarily saying that I want a members section. I'm just saying that I can understand why some people would want one. SKS (talk) 07:19, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

I think there aren't really any solid guidelines on whether there should be member sections or not. the Wonder Girls article does not have a members section and neither member has their own page. Regarding having one for this article, I personally feel there isn't a need, regardless of the information since it tip toes on the borders of trivia. Shouldn't there be some solid guideline on whether K-pop groups should have members sections or not? You don't see members of bands getting sections of the article given the countless collabs on the musician's behalf. + npervez ☂ 20:57, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

I think separate members section is justified when there is a lot of "notable" members and it would make the infobox very large.

Some groups, especially project groups and supergroups, are known for changing line-up a lot and listing all the members of former line-ups in "former members" in the infobox would make it look too long.

It really doesn't matter if there is enough verifiable information about a single member when it comes to adding members section, because you can always link to the article directly in the infobox. Monni (talk) 21:08, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Melon awards?

You Guys Must Put Melon music awards because its not fair that you delete snsd awards of melon , its an offical song award show and the problem is some anti keeps deleting it & not accepting , you must do a a person who keeps an eye on it & locks for other people ---

I'm personally am okay with these awards in here, but I guess it's because they're not seen as legitimate, as it's essentially one online store's awards. It's like having iTunes Awards...except that Korea likes having individual award shows for networks/companies/etc. SKS (talk) 22:06, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

But isnt Cyworld Digital Music Awards The Same too —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.252.59.33 (talk) 16:50, 3 January 2010 (UTC) ---

So we should also remove cyworld? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.28.155.119 (talk) 17:50, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Can we please stop the edit-warring and come to a concensus instead? It's been like this for over a few weeks now.... SKS (talk) 18:26, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Just my five cents, but as far as I know there isn't really any single award ceremony in South Korea that all major record labels approve. We should vote which ones are big enough that cover majority of record labels and keep them, and remove the minor ones. Monni (talk) 18:34, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes I Agree With U Lets Vote , First Of All I Thing that if All big four labels Go To an Award Ceremony It Means Its Very Important & If You Remember YG , DSP , JYP , SM & Good Ent. Artists All Had Gone To Melon Music Awards & This Proves That MelOn Awards Is One Of Big Award Ceremony's In South Korea & I Think That If An Award Like Cyword Which Counts Only About How Many Downloads it takes from an simple website and gives awards mountly is way less important then melon which Gives Award Yearly , So I Vote That MelOn Must Be In The List Or Both Cyword & MelOn Must Be Deleted From All Artists Who Won it ....... And Please Someone Stop The Anti Who Deletes The Award Without Explaining Why He/she does Delete snsd awards & doest delete OTHER Artists award ....and about kbs music bank : mvp award i think that it isnt a normal music bank award cause they give them an trophy in gold which is for winning the charts all over 2009 and if you search carefully you will find that tvqx won the same award & they had put it in their award list in wiki so why u delete snsds award only and without deleting theirs too —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.252.49.158 (talk) 18:38, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

First of all I don't think it's the work of anti fans. If they were anti fans, then why would they just remove Melon? I think the reason some fans feel that melon isn't good enough of an award is because it's not legitimate or it's lack of integrity unlike Cyworld which is a well respected site. The Music Bank wins are also irrelevant. I think most of the people here think that if they receive a trophy, that award should be written here. That's not really the case. If your gonna put every single trophy that are given to them then how will we know, especially those who just wants to know about SNSD and not a fan, which are the notable ones. Korea has many award giving body. Seems like anybody can give awards nowadays. Even PD. I think the prestigious ones are the ones that are most respected by the media and by artists alike. Golden Disk and Seoul Music for example.

Fine but why don't you take off the melon music awards to other artist because this isn't justice. I the melon music awards aren't as big as you think then take it off for every artist for example: 2ne1, super junior, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.81.13.99 (talk) 22:17, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

I think the only reason this is so contentious only on this page is simply because this page gets a lot of visitor traffic. It's the third most visited Korea-related page in December. And I guess bringing the discussion hasn't changed much, because I keep seeing the info inserted and deleted and then it's...yeah. SKS (talk) 01:22, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

So we know someone is not doing the right thing. So does that mean we have to do it also? Windarcher (talk) 15:09, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

According to this page, outcomes on a page do not necessarily have an effect on another page. So, a group of people deciding that an award win is not notable on Girls' Generation should not necessarily mean that the award doesn't belong on every single Korean pop page, unless it was decided that the award win itself is not notable. SKS (talk) 05:37, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

That is the point. SNSD alone won 6 Melon Awards and had many articles written about them. It was a record for an award show and it shows SNSD's success in 2009. I am sure it is more notable than any other Melon Awards on other artists' pages. Then why is it considered trivial or unimportant for SNSD only? Shillen18 (talk) 21:56, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

I believe that Melon Awards should be on the list. 1. There were numerous news articles about SNSD winning the Melon awards. 2. Other artists who won have the Melon Awards win listed in their profiles. 3. The Melon Awards were regarded as a huge music awards event only behind the MAMAs and GDA for the year 2009. 4. The Itunes store analogy might seem reasonable, but most of the awards like Cyworld's are even more fitting of that particular analogy, considering that Cyworld is like the Myspace of Korea. 5. Melon is regarded as a legitimate mp3 site with a large market share in Korea, which does not have any bias towards companies or artists. Einhart (talk) 12:06, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Second reason isn't really a valid point. I don't understand the point in fourth. Comparing to MySpace is just weird. MySpace is essentially a one man project even though it is backed up by a large company. The rest might be valid points. Monni (talk) 17:42, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Please add the Melon Awards. This controversy has been going on for awhile now. SNSD deserves to be recognized through their 6 wins. I just don't get why we can't just add it on when every other k-artist page has it? It's just not fair and doesn't make sense. If other korean fans recognize this award by seeing it on other korean pages, then SNSD should have their wins listed. FOr goodness sake, they won the biggest awards of the night. THey need to be recognized. Also, GAON chart digital song win should be added. THat's now the korean billboard. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ohjsnsd (talk • contribs) 07:28, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm actually ok with Melon not being put in the awards section. I mean it's not really that much of an award since it's base on popularity. And if include popularity award in the awards section, then that would flood the award section. Their Daesang wins might be overlook. As people above said, let's keep the awards in the awards section as notable as possible. Melon isn't really that much prestigious anyway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sammy127 (talk • contribs) 00:19, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

I also agree that we shouldn't put Melon. I mean if you say that this artist won Melon. No one will actually care. It's not that big of an award. The biggest award that a Korean artist can get in Korea is the Daesang. That is what we should be parading. You can't put every single award that people give them. I mean no one will believe it if the award giving body isn't really that reliable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Archangel23 (talk • contribs) 06:09, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Positions in Girls Generations.

I believe that there is a controversy on whether Girl's Generation has a so-called "positions" in the band itself. But, there are no reference to state that each member has it's individual positions in the band group. SM Entertainment only announced that Kim Tae Yeon will be leader of the group and said nothing more. The ranks were made up by the fans and not SM Entertainment. I propose that we should not write their so-called positions without any sources stating so. Thanks.

Everyroadpay 09:53, 2 January 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Everyroadpay (talk • contribs)

SEOUL song

Just a question, should we really put the SEOUL song collaboration? I mean it doesn't really say anything about the girls' music career and I can't see it having any relevance on anything written in their page. It's like one of those CF done by SNSD. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.28.155.119 (talk) 18:02, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

It is fairly notable, since the Korean Government's tourism office picked the group for it's song, so it is worth a mention. Though I see where you're coming from, its like a CF for S. Korea :) + npervez ☂ 16:21, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Discography

Isn't it redundant to put the albums and songs when it is already stated in SNSD's discography page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Archangel23 (talk • contribs) 05:45, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

I see where you're coming from, however it is common practice to at least mention all the albums by the group like TVXQ's article. + npervez ☂ 20:57, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Silent Protest

I'm rather confuse as to why it's there....?? If we're gonna keep it, can we explain why the fans protested in the first place? SandylovesMicky (talk) 02:50, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

the fact that the protest happened can be sourced. the reasons for it, though, are less solid and may violate Wikipedia's living people policy. SKS (talk) 06:11, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

I've deleted this part of the article because a)It doesn't seem important enough to occupy an entire section on its own b)There's no explanation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.159.113.4 (talk) 05:27, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Pictures

I thought you can only load pictures here in the page those that belong to you?§ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.127.223.78 (talk) 07:10, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

You're supposed to, however one user is uploading WP:NONFREE images claiming it is his/her own work. I've removed the pictures for now. + npervez ☂ 16:21, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

On Writing about SNSD

Just some thoughts. I don't think we should put events that has not happened yet. I mean for example the Oh! album. Yes it is announced that SNSD will released Oh!, but we can't write about it before it has been released. So putting it in the discography with just the announcement as a basis and putting a track list with hearsay sources is a little irresponsible. Again, allkpop is not a reliable source. It is a BLOG. Wikipedia is not a fansite. You just can't put everything you hear about SNSD. The Archangel23 (talk) 05:40, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

The album release has been confirmed by many reliable sources. There's nothing prohibiting material about future events/things, as long as they can be sourced. Of course, the tracklist hasn't been confirmed yet...but that's an issue for Oh! (album), not here. SKS (talk) 05:45, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

WOW! Was this article always this messy looking?? I swore it use to look so much cleaner! What happen!!? AhnSoonKyung (talk) 04:58, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Nah. It was always messy looking. Someone963852 (talk) 21:27, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Someone added in all this trivia and all these needless extra lines, giving it a weird, spaced-out look. I tried cleaning it up a bit without angering the fans, but it could use more help. SKS (talk) 21:30, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

New section

They need section for their other works or endorsements. Madz76 (Talk|Contributions) 16:09, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Controversies -> Album Art

I think this section isn't all correct, because there is no swastika, but insignia which looking similar to them used by the Nazis. http://popseoul.com/2009/06/23/girls-generation-accused-of-war-crimes/ --Dr. Crisp (talk) 16:15, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Continued part 2: "Controversy" section placement; in order of importance

For how this came about, Refer to section number 15 of the discussion page.

Following user "Bla8mer" 's argument, It's true that the Super Junior (http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Super_Junior) and DBSK (TVXQ) (http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/TVXQ) articles follow the same format (more or less), specifically the "Controversies" section is placed after the "Discography section.

Yes, they all so happen to be under the same recording company (S.M. Ent.) but the argument for the article's format still stands.

I am now placing the "controversies" section after the "Discography" right now.

For some reason if you (Reader) disagree and want to change (or already have made the change) to my Edit, I WILL undo the change until you come to this page and read this discussion topic.

If you haven't, duke it out here (In a civil manner of course). Dom117 17:32, 14 May 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dominic 117 (talk • contribs)

Controversies -> Album Art ( Who started it?)

As in "Who was the person who reported this find to a news agency or blog?"

I ask this because it seems to me that it could have been a last minute change on SM Entertainments part, but then word of it got leaked and now it magically becomes a controversy.

I have edited the article by removing the source of the "Reporter". Meaning it only states that SM Entertainment noticed this "wrong image" and decided to change it last minute. That's it.

The definition of controversy is really subjective. I still see this as something un-eventfull being blown into "controversy" proportions. But since it's a "Bad-thing-that-happened", I assume this is the general definiton of "Controversy" for most people, the only place to put it is, well, here.

So the article still stays. But more fact-precise.Dom117 17:32, 14 May 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dominic 117 (talk • contribs)

The thing i don't get is why the 'controversies' section was completely removed. Clearly, there has been (at least) one controversy surrounding them. and i'm not talking about the nonesense fanwars. i'm talking about the 'Genie' album art controversy with the japanese A6M Zero fighters and the eagle-symbols on their hats. Why hide it? It just happened, SM cleared the rumors, that's all to it. in fact it gets even more suspicious now that there is no mention of it at all anymore. It should be added again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.240.219.110 (talk) 19:42, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Pictures

Can you guys change the picture now, to something where we can actually SEE them? And why did you remove the picture of Seohyun (not the one with the boobies, the one where she looked so cute, I think it was a Gee performance)? I couldn't find that anywhere... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.153.12.80 (talk) 20:37, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Artistry plus some random other stuff....

I've given the entire page a once-over and added quite a bit as well as reference all the bits that needed references. There's also a members section and I've also added an endorsements section (which sites all references and includes main endorsements such as goobne rather than smaller ones. Most big name groups have endorsement sections such as DBSK and SJ, and there are a number of kpop wikis that include member sections such as 2ne1 and BEG. I think it's useful to include basic information like that as people generally have to visit soompi, ssf, snsdkorean etc. for that info when the wikipedia page is where such things should be available.

Can I also bring up the option of an artistry section? Most popular groups have one.

Oh, and that's right. Does the award SNSD received at the 2009 Asia Song Festival not count as an award? And in regards to pictures being added to the page, are screencaps not allowed? Or would that violate copyright laws with MBS, KBS etc.?

And considering SNSD will be in Japan soon, will their Japanese names be added to their wikis? ユナ Yuna スヨン Suyon ユリ Yuri ソヒョン Sohyon ジェシカ Jeshika テヨン Teyon サニー Sanii ヒョヨン Hyoyon ティファニー Tiffany

-11 July, 2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.253.35.208 (talk) 11:28, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Okay, first of all, you need to sign your posts by putting four ~ like this ~ ~ ~ ~ (remove the spaces) in front of your posts. And yeah you can put the Japanese names of members as long as they are present on their official website (in that case you won't even need to put a citation because source is primary media). Names need to be very accurate and we should be responsible for not providing false/unsourced information on wikipedia. Oh and you did a very good job with artistry section and good sources. Although, I thought that 'cow herding' dance was a little weird. I dont know about screencaps and pictures stuff. The point is people come to wikipedia to find accurate information and not for pictography in main sense. They go to google for pictures. Farjad0322 (talk) 00:55, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Oh right. Thanks. And yes, the cow-herding thing is weird but that's...what they call it. Lol. 220.253.35.208 (talk) 11:21, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Everything in the artistry section are subjective. The whole section should be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.69.219.139 (talk) 03:29, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Youtube Sources?

I haven't visited this site for a while and I was a little surprised that people are putting youtube vids as sources. I think its in the artistry section. As protocol, sources have to be reliable and can be readily access. But the youtube channel used as source isn't even a reliable one. What if the owner of those videos tells youtube to delete it? Maybe if its sment channel it can pass as sources.

Again, for those who are new here, wikipedia is not a fansite. Its an encyclopedia. Bias and subjective writings does not include to that. I'll delete the whole artistry section. If you want it back, provide reliable sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Archangel23 (talk • contribs) 16:45, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

I haven't had time to review the section yet, but I'm glad you brought this up. The reason YouTube vids can't be used as sources is because of WP:COPYVIO issues. Obviously, any "official" accounts like SM's are okay, because they own the copyright and they're the ones who uploaded it. Normally, when YouTube vids are used as sources, it's clips of shows and stuff, so...yeah. SKS (talk) 17:57, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

You should give wikipedians a time of one week before removing artistry section. The section is difficult to cite and seems to be inspired from that of article of fellow artists, Super Junior. We can use the same sites from the sources in Super Junior section to find reliable sources for Girls' Generation section. There is one little problem though, not everybody speaks Korean. :S Farjad0322 (talk) 00:27, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

No, it doesn't work like that. If something is wrong, we have to correct it immediately. What good will it do if we prolong the mistake by a week. Also, if those wikipedians as you call them know what they are doing, they should know the protocols in wikipedia. If they can't speak Korean then why would they contribute to wiki? No offense, but if their information is not reliable or they are not sure, then don't write it in here. As they say, wikipedia is not a fansite. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.69.219.139 (talk) 03:25, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Cite Sources Please!

Maybe there's a lot of new fans who just recently discover the wonder of wikipedia and are excited to immortalize and spread the word of SNSD, but please follow protocol. The endorsement section needs citing so badly. If you guys want to put them in wikipedia. Cite your sources. Unless you cite, all you have written would just be rumors and opinions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Archangel23 (talk • contribs) 23:45, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

I know the fandom spoiled it. The article once made it into the GA category but now its a C-Class. :'( Farjad0322 (talk) 00:29, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm working on siting more sources in that there endorsements section. :P Sorry I didn't get around to it the first time I put it up. It's a little asdfgah! as SSF only started to linking to original articles recently but I'm getting there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.253.35.208 (talk) 11:25, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Maybe instead of paragraphing the endorsement section, just list it down. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.127.187.163 (talk) 15:22, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

The paragraphing is so that main endorsements can be summed up and the reader can get a general overview of the group's endorsing activities. SNSD are called 'advertising queens' for a reason...An actual list would be far too long and most likely very hard to source.220.253.35.208 (talk) 09:11, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

reality shows

Wonderful outing is technically Park Kyunglim's show, and SNSD were just on for a few eps. "Park Kyunglim's Wonderful Outing 2 with SNSD" would be more accurate, but deleting it would work too. And as for "Unstoppable Marriage", that's a sitcom, and really only starred Sooyoung and Yuri with SNSD appearing for a short time. That might belong in a tv work section or something but not on a reality show list.220.253.35.208 (talk) 09:24, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

genie

just a suggestion should the original 'sowoneul malhaebwa' single and the new japanese single 'genie' be given seperate articles? 'genie' has a different title and music video, is in japanese rather than korean and both songs are released seperately too. what do you guys think? 203.206.165.60 (talk) 04:22, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Still the same song, though. Generally speaking, there's only one article per song, no matter how many versions there are. See "Against All Odds (Take a Look at Me Now)" for a good example. SKS (talk) 20:05, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from ThumpThump, 15 September 2010

{{edit semi-protected}} Hope I can edit. I really want to give an update about their recent debut in Japan.

ThumpThump (talk) 10:02, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Not done: Hi, this edit request system is for posting specific changes you wish to be made. Please post the actual text you would like added here. Alternatively, after having an account for 4 days and 10 edits you will automatically be able to edit this article. Remember to state reliable sources when adding information. Happy editing, Stickee (talk) 10:29, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

does this count as an award?

http://www.newsen.com/news_view.php?uid=201009031750421001&code=100200

korean broadcast awards singer award Just want to get your opinions whether it qualifies as a good enough award to be added. The Big Bang wiki and Ko Hyeon-jeong wiki both list awards from the korean broadcast awards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Banana concept (talk • contribs) 11:25, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

I think its important because its an every year award event and it counts for young adults and teens , many famous singers and groups has this kind of awards in there award lists —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.252.32.212 (talk) 16:03, 15 October 2010 (UTC)