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Talk:Giorgio Raguseo

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wow. Souces thin at first glance and mostly passim. But I found these possibilities for Giorgio Raguseo in Italian and English. No hits in French or I would have seen them, because of my Google language preferences. Lots and lots in Hungarian also in what like very respectable academic journals, but none so specifically about him that his name appears in the abstract. See the name warnings below. Also I speak absolutely no Hungarian, tho it did seem as though some of these were about university life in Italy at roughly the same period. Anyway. He wrote a huge book on philosophy, corresponded with Galileo (?) if I am reading this right, and one of his contemporaries adapted Aristophanes' The Clouds to lampoon him as a bad influence on the morals of his students, maybe possibly. I think the play was actually produced; since I saw this several times apparently he was notorious for this much at least. Maybe. This was in Italian;) He is mentioned a couple of times as a cabbalist, and once in a book that seems to be a history of astrology, but is behind a huge paywall, and I have had enough of this topic and don't wanna investigate what databases I can get into with my library cards right now. This would be much easier for someone who speaks Italian. Or maybe Hungarian.

And go:

Caution: name means "from Dubrovnik" and there are/have also apparently been several others, some of them also sufficiently noted to get multiple hits in JSTOR. He might be the only Giorgio and as best I can tell he might possibly the only italian scholar actually using it as a name in his lifetime, but I absolutely don't guarantee that or that the above hits are peer-reviewed; my Italian is just barely up to screening for topic. Maybe. I am imagining an Italian version of the Elizabethan John Dee but that is a only an impression.

Source on people from Dubrovnik in Venice, possibly good background - http://hrcak.srce.hr/index.php?id_clanak_jezik=12664&show=clanak

The reference cited is an almost-empty placeholder but indicates that the European library authorities know that the book exists in some collection. It gives the following four names as alternate spellings to the one I looked at above:

  • Georgius Ragusaeus
  • Georgius Raguseius
  • Ragusaeus, Georgius
  • Raguseius, Georgius

Elinruby (talk) 06:45, 3 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Elinruby: In those days, people still wrote in Latin, and some of those spellings just reflect that, I believe; possibly having to do with Latin noun declensions, or possibly just alternate spellings, as orthography of even regular words wasn't standardized yet.
Btw, I get a browser error trying to access that s3 file; it gives me an xml error, and says, "request has expired, access denied". This sounds like you might be pasting too much info in your url, it might have a time-limited session id in it; but if you can get it again, give me the short version of the url, if there is one, and I'll try it. If I can't get it but you can, I'll create a sandbox page where you can paste it. Mathglot (talk) 04:03, 12 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Mathglot: True about the declensions. However while I don't speak Latin either, I'd expect a library database to take that into account. And usually declension affects the endings, right? Except in irregular forms? But that's a guess based on German. In any event I just checked Google Scholar, which is where I was looking, and it still indicates which links were visited so I may be able to track down the Amazon link -- I currently get the same thing. I agree that the url looks like it contains a token, and the message sounds like that too, but unless I was signed into Google, I dunno. I'll look into it but I'm thinking lunch thoughts at the moment. Come to think of it maybe Google Books also. Elinruby (talk) 17:41, 12 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Elinruby: Interesting about that url, hmm. Anyway, regarding alt spellings, Google is pretty damn good about taking such things into account, and not as "misspellings", I think it actually knows the declension paradigms. Thanks for the tip about possible namesakes.
Also, you had mentioned Hungarian sources, but when I look, I find mostly Croatian, fewer Italian, a couple of Latin; haven't seen any Hungarian sources so far, so not sure what you're seeing.
A lot of the more recent sources seem to quote the older ones, not too surprising; haven't gone in to trace the footnotes to be sure, but that phrase " filosofo, teologo e oratore" seems to pop up a lot, and it:Giorgio Raguseo has that phrase, and so do we, translated. Anyhow, I'll list some more sources to add to yours.
Some of the stuff not in the article yet, is how he held the second chair of philosophy at U Padua, succeeding Cesare Cremonini, with whom he held bitter disagreements while the latter was still alive. That article doesn't mention him, but could, and would be another valid in-link to this one.
The other thing I've seen is that he was at the end of the Aristotelian philosophical tradition, which was giving way to the changes of the Renaissance. That might rate an inlink, maybe, if we can find an article where it would fit; in any case maybe he could rate a link at Italian philophy, Renaissance philosophy, Aristotelianism. University of Padua has a section on famous alumni, but strangely, not one for people who taught there, so if that article were expanded, that could provide another link. Mathglot (talk) 19:51, 12 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Mathglot: A childhood playmate taught me Frère Jacques and the numbers 1-10 in Hungarian and that's it, that's all I got in that language. I think I may have been going by the .hu TLD, so possibly it's a Hungarian cataloguing of Croatian sources. No idea. I'll take another look at this shortly to see if I can help any more if you are interested though. Maybe tonight. There about 100 of these articles though, you know. What do you think of combining them in a list meanwhile? Elinruby (talk) 20:45, 12 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Mathglot: got round to examining the url -- try this: www.researchgate.net/publication/279317867_GALILEO_IN_THE_LETTERS_OF_GIORGIO_RAGUSEO - Don't guarantee it's the same thing as above, but it would be along the same lines. Elinruby (talk) 20:55, 12 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Elinruby: Oh, I see the problem, now: 'hr' is the code for Croatian (Croatian is Hravtsky in Croatian) whereas 'hu' is the code for Hungarian. All those sources you thought were Hungarian, are actually in Croatian, that's all it was. Thanks for the url, that one works! Mathglot (talk) 00:08, 13 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Mathglot: I could easily have confused the two. My ignorance of Slavic languages is practically boundless. Elinruby (talk) 00:11, 13 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Mathglot: also that makes sense since Dubrovnik is in Croatia. I remember wondering why Hungarian, actually. Elinruby (talk) 00:16, 13 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Elinruby: Well, in that case I'll drop another little factoid on ya: Hungarian is not Slavic. It's not even Indo-European; it's in the Uralic family. Mathglot (talk) 00:19, 13 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Mathglot: heh, ok. Is Croatian Slavic, just so I know? If so I guess the languages aren't related at all? Elinruby (talk) 00:23, 13 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Elinruby: Yes to both. (Croatian is Slavic, and not related to Hungarian at all.) Almost everything you probably think is Slavic in that stretch of Eastern Europe, is. The main ones that aren't Slavic in that region are Albanian (which is its own subfamily of Indo-European), and Romanian/Modovan which is Romance. Hungarian is the only non Indo-European one, but further up in the Baltics, Estonia is also Uralic. But this is getting a bit far afield for improving the Raguseo article, so if you want to continue this, let's do it at your talk page. Mathglot (talk) 01:48, 13 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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