Talk:Virtual restaurant

Text and/or other creative content from this version of Ghost kitchen was merged into Virtual restaurant with this edit on 2022-09-05. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

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Come back to these sources

Crains
Eater
Sources about the downside of these businesses (for other restaurants)

— Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 04:43, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Other subject possible known as a ghost restaurant?

@Froid: Thanks for adding to this article. To me, the content, however, looks to be about a somewhat different concept. The subject of this article is a restaurant which interacts with customers only through delivery. It looks like the NBC source is more about restaurants which operate under different names, regardless of whether they have an actual storefront/dining room. Related, but perhaps different. If there's more than just the NBC source (the other blog doesn't look like WP:RS), maybe there's a different concept or a way to deal with it in a dedicated section. The negative connotations, for example, from that concept shouldn't be used to refer to this one, though. Not to say there aren't negative connotations, but it's talking about something different here. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 05:29, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I understand your point, but believe this negative connotation is a subsegment of legitimate ghost restaurants. Therefore, taking your concern into account, I moved the content to the end of the "Ghost restaurant" article and reworded it to make it clear the negative press was about a particular subsegment. Cheers! Froid (talk) 08:48, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Merge proposal

MERGED

Consensus to merge. As pointed out in the discussion, the older article should be kept and the newer one merged and redirected, so Ghost kitchen → Virtual restaurant. No decision on what the name of the page should be, that requires further discussion. ––FormalDude (talk) 18:57, 5 September 2022 (UTC) (closed by non-admin page mover)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I propose merging Ghost kitchen with this article, as I under the impression that "ghost kitchen" and "ghost restaurant" are synonyms or at least similar. I think that the two should be merged to provide a single, organized entry for food preparation facilities that do not have sit-in or dining arrangements, and operate wholly by delivery service.Mikkelangel (talk) 23:40, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This source supports the notion that the two concepts are different: "A ghost kitchen differs from a ghost restaurant in that a ghost kitchen is not necessarily a restaurant brand in itself and may contain kitchen space and facilities for more than one restaurant brand."^[1] At the same time, I have seen writers use the two terms in the same sentence, with much less distinction.OnBeyondZebrax • TALK 13:48, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@OnBeyondZebrax: From what I've seen, the common usage of "ghost kitchen" and "ghost restaurant" is nearly interchangeable. It doesn't make much sense to have two articles with redundant content (e.g. with the list of examples including Pasqually's etc.) that largely overlap. Why not have a single article, in which the first section distinguishes between "ghost kitchens" and "ghost restaurants" (citing to The Spoon for the specific definition) while acknowledging that in common usage the difference is often blurred? RexSueciae (talk) 00:56, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support merge. Even with a distinction between them it does seem worth combining into a single, slightly larger article that explores the general phenomenon. (I've added a merge template to both articles to highlight this thread, which I hadn't noticed before.) --Lord Belbury (talk) 17:09, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support Merge The overlapping content is problematic. I think because it's such a COVID-era topic, a solid term just hasn't become established, but since the definition is the same and sources are mixing them, it's far more logical for a reader to want all of this in one place. I feel like I've heard of these kinds of places in Asia (I vaguely recall being aware that some delivery places weren't restaurants, but it was mainly the smaller mom-pop kinds rather than the ubiquitous fried chicken and chain restaurants. Dunno if that's useful) Cheers, Estheim (talk) 07:20, 25 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I support this merger, simply because to me, a ghost kitchen has already been considered as a virtual setup since the pandemic, especially since people order from these restaurants online through their ghost kitchen setups. Nintendoswitchfan (talk) 10:29, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support merge but under a different name like "delivery-only restaurant", and then between explain the distinction between a ghost kitchen and ghost restaurant.-Shivertimbers433 (talk) 19:06, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Albrecht, Chris (August 17, 2018). "A Quick Tour of Kitchen United's Virtual Kitchen Operation". thespoon.tech. The Spoon. Retrieved 19 June 2019.

Oppose the direction, but Support in principle. This is the older article (and in fact was originally titled Ghost restaurant before someone moved it more recently), so the merge would be done into this article, not into the other. I presume this was a mistake, so I'll just swap the tags (you usually have these discussions on the target article's talk page). But yes, they cover the same subject. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 12:12, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- And once it's merged, we can sort out what the best parent title is. When I started the page, ghost restaurant/ghost kitchen was most common, so that's where it started. When someone moved it to virtual restaurant I intended to move it back pending discussion but was busy with other things and, apparently, forgot. Also haven't looked to closely at the big changes made at the same time. Eh. We can start with a merge and sort it from there, I suppose. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 12:21, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support: No comment required. Also support Rhododendrites’s view on naming. —¿philoserf? (talk) 15:11, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support Merge I presume that these two articles mean the same thing. You'vegotmail27 • TALK 15:45, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support As far as I can tell they appear to be discussing the same thing. I suppose a "ghost kitchen" may refer to a kitchen not within a restaurant that operates only on deliveries, whereas a "virtual restaurant" is the brand itself that may either use a ghost kitchen or a kitchen in another restaurant. But I think both concepts can be covered in the same article. I'm not sure what the best title is. NemesisAT (talk) 15:47, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support Merge The articles currently claim that they are different, but the virtual restaurant page gives Cosmic Wings, It's Just Wings and Pasqually's Pizza & Wings as examples of virtual restaurants, while the virtual kitchens page gives these same things as examples of virtual kitchens. And I can't see any distinction between the places listed as virtual restaurants but not as virtual kitchens, and the places listed as kitchens but not restaurants. As used in the articles themselves, they are treated as the same entity, except for one sentence that attempts to make a distinction, which is very confusing. Andylatto (talk) 16:32, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support Merge — they're similar enough concepts to cover in a single article, and also in-the-wild usage of the terminology very frequently blurs the distinctions that the current articles make between "ghost kitchen" and "virtual restaurant". Krinn DNZ (talk) 21:19, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support merging virtual restaurant into ghost kitchen - Same concept, but "ghost kitchen" has become the more dominant name by far. --Posted by Pikamander2 (Talk) at 08:57, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- @Pikamander2: FWIW, this is just about whether to merge, not what the name should be. When two articles cover the same thing, we typically merge into the older one, and then rename it as needed. As I wrote above, the name of this article was ghost restaurant from the beginning, and included "also known as ghost kitchen". Then someone moved this one and created the other one for some reason. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 12:35, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RS

Potential WP:RS:

Holmes, Mona (2018-05-23). "Here's why a lot of delivery food isn't coming from actual restaurants". Eater LA. Retrieved 2019-04-15.

--David Tornheim (talk) 16:38, 15 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Deliberately ambiguous?

Knowing nothing and reading "separate food vendor entity that operates out of an existing restaurant's kitchen," I come away with the impression that ghost kitchens are literally shared kitchens. I imagine another chef with unique recipes at the far end of a traditional restaurant using the space, happy he has avoided the cost of a premises, which the remainder of the opening paragraph reinforces.

My understanding of the reality of the situation is simply that brands with low prestige like Applebee's and Denny's are selling the same wings or burgers under different names to mislead consumers about their origin, enabled by the expansion of delivery that allows them the subterfuge of customers never seeing their storefront.

If this is indeed the case, can an expert reword this paragraph to more accurately reflect the situation rather than reinforcing the deception with corporatespeak? Lucent (talk) 17:34, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[The_Spoon,_Albrecht,_8/17/2018-1] Albrecht, Chris (August 17, 2018). "A Quick Tour of Kitchen United's Virtual Kitchen Operation". thespoon.tech. The Spoon. Retrieved 19 June 2019.

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