Talk:Ghirth/Archive 1

Archive 1

References

References which are mentioned here are not true and biased. Reference books written totally against the community and their culture. Billie cat (talk) 07:12, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Are you mad all the information is wrong Ronak bains (talk) 02:42, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

References are not clear .. Ronak bains (talk) 02:44, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Sir kitne editing Kee h dhk loo aap bee gusaa aa RHA h mujhe too plz sir kuch to action loo Sanjeev Choudhary007 (talk) 08:21, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Fake reference .. Ronak bains (talk) 16:08, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

1. Book: "Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North West Frontier Province" By Sir Denzil Ibbetson, Sir Edward Maclagan

It says clearly Ghirth are of Rajput origins.

2. Book: "Himachal Pradesh, Volume 3, page 55" by Sukh Dev Singh Charak - 1979

Its written in there that "Ghirths" are of Rajput origin.

The guy who referred this book in the reference section of the article didn't quite write the whole paragraph, he just wanted to disgrace "Ghirth", hence only wrote that we are of low caste, in reality we were shunned from being Rajputs due to widow remarriages, And these books clearly says that we are Rajputs but even better than them as we showed humanity towards widowed women. By reading that article we could easily get into the publishers mindset, his hate towards low caste is clearly observable. Varun.1995c (talk) 07:49, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

Caste compendiums by colonial civil servants of British India are not reliable sources by Wikipedia standards. That includes Glossary of the Tribes and Castes... and other texts based on it. That said, even the Glossary of the Tribes and Castes... does not support your assertion about the high status of the Ghirths or the 'shunned because of widow remarriage' bit. Here is an exact quote from the Glossary of the Tribes and Castes: "The Ghirths are said to be of Rajput origin by mixed marriages or illegitimate intercourse. [...] Their social position is low.". utcursch | talk 14:18, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

Well so where did your reference of ghirth are of low caste came from??? There are not very many books regarding this, i have searched and searched and Sukhdev singh charak/chib have used the exact same content in their book which is written in the "Glossary of the Tribes and Castes". And in this very article the reference is taken from the sukhdev singh charak's book. So if Sukhdev himself took the info from the "Glossary of the Tribes and Castes" , then you cant use the same paragraphs in this article. And i never said ghirth were of high status but of status equal to rajputs as said in the book by Sukhdev singh charak " The Ghirths are said to be of Rajput origin by mixed marriages or illegitimate intercourse." In the past marrying outside the caste especially for high caste people was frowned upon but nowadays not so much , i see Rajputs marrying Bhramins, or Bhramins marrying low caste people. They must be considered of low social position as well especially Bhramins, Most Bhramins nowadays eat meat and drink liquor, they must be considered as caste with lowest social position.

I am a choudhary and choudhary usually means " Person with large quantity of land" and we do have large quantities of land, if we really were servants, did Ghirth stole those lands?

And i myself am a history buff, i have references from Rajputs from my district kangra, and from many old people belonging to both of Ghirth and of Rajputs. Though we are not considered same as Rajputs we once were, we initially were Rajputs.

And my mother is of "Sial" caste. "Sial" has a Rajput origin( Sial was Son of "Panwar Rajput") as written in a book by Origins and History of Jats and Other Allied Nomadic Tribes of India 900 B.C.U1947 A.D. by B.S. Nijjar. The reason of stating this is that we can marry only within same caste. And so did Rajput to keep their Ancestry pure.Varun.1995c (talk) 07:49, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

Well thank's for pointing out the similarities between Sukh Dev Singh Charak's work and Glossary of the Tribes and Castes. A closer look suggests that Charak has simply lifted content from the Glossary..., which means it's an unreliable source as well. That said, neither book states that Ghirths are Rajputs (or equivalent): they state that the Ghirths are said to be of Rajput origin, and explicitly add that they have a low social status. B. S. Nijjar isn't a great ref either (see here and here) -- not that matters, because your attempts to connect your mother's clan/caste to this article is OR. The rest of your claims are unsourced / OR as well.

Personally, I don't care about 'high' or 'low' social status of a caste, but we've a solid source that clearly states that the Ghirths once held a low social status, and that they started a movement to achieve upward social mobility in the 20th century (frankly, that's something to be proud of). That's what the article states, and I don't see any problem with that until you can provide a reliable source that contradicts this. 21:33, 19 April 2018 (UTC)utcursch | talk

Mahesh Sharma book has written violent , fasle and inappropriate information about Girth caste Iamvishal074 (talk) 12:50, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

Mahesh Sharma article on Ghirth is False information! Status is high and eqivalent to Rajputs of Local region

! Ds324658 (talk) 16:50, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

We are higher people! We don't need from Brahmins to be published article on our history! Ds324658 (talk) 16:52, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

This is totally False information--- The traditional occupation of the Ghirths is agriculture. At the beginning of the 20th century, they were the dominant low-caste cultivators and marginal landholders in the Himachal region.[2] Since they were considered as a 'clean' (not untouchable) low caste, they were employed as domestic servants by the higher castes: their 'clean' status allowed them to perform tasks such as fetching water or cleaning cooking utensils, which the untouchable servants were not allowed to do.[3] Nevertheless, the Rajputs, who were the dominant landholding caste of the region, had imposed social restrictons on them. Around 1926, the Ghirths started a movement to achieve upward social mobility, and started opposing these restrictions.[2] They refused menial work, creating difficulties for the higher castes that earlier employed them as servants. Ds324658 (talk) 16:54, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Population and statistical ratios of Jats of Himachal is considerably eqivalent to Rajputs in Himachal! So Brahmins are creating and showing other people lower Ds324658 (talk) 17:05, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Ghirths are not low caste people! They are higher caste, well-reputative people oglf Himachal that Brahmins and Rajputs! Ds324658 (talk) 17:10, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Mahesh Sharma is not ..well knowledgeable person ... Wrong statement. Ghirth bahti chang ...these all are jats Ronak bains (talk) 17:25, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Jatland.com or your personal opinion is not an acceptable source. See WP:RS. utcursch | talk 15:09, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

<sarcasm>Everything in this article is totally right because me and my grandfather say so!</sarcasm> To all the people here claiming the article contains false information without providing reliable evidence: read WP:TRUTH. --HyperGaruda (talk) 05:25, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

Hyper garuda .... Wikipedia is uploading false information about ghirth Ronak bains (talk) 11:09, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

Mahesh Sharma article has written fasle and violent information about Girth caste. Iamvishal074 (talk) 12:55, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

false information

Ghirath are higher agricultural caste not a low caste Ishusingh67 (talk) 02:35, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

@Ishusingh67: Can you provide any citations to scholarly works that say that? Not caste-based amateur websites, but serious research. MatthewVanitas (talk) 02:49, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

If Girth are low caste, then they are considered as SC, ST, but they are considered as OBC like Saini and Jaat. OBC considers economically weaker sections from minority communities. Girths are not low caste. Delete the 3 and 4 links of this topic. It is totally false information. Mahesh Sharma wrote false information in their book. Iamvishal074 (talk) 15:59, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 January 2019

Rakku99 (talk) 19:54, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Rakku99 (talk) 19:54, 7 January 2019 (UTC)Ghirth are of Rajput origin, but became separate caste as they started widow remarriage and agriculture.

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. DannyS712 (talk) 20:21, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 25 December 2019

The Ghirth (also known as Ghirath, Ghrit or Chowdhary) is a Hindu agricultural Indian caste found in the state of Himachal Pradesh in North India.[1]

Contents 1 History 2 Related groups 3 References 3.1 Bibliography History According to a legend, the Ghirths are so called because the Hindu god Shiva made them out of ghee (ghrita in Sanskrit). This etymology is reflective of the community's traditional occupation of animal husbandry and agriculture. However, some members of the community trace their ancestry to a sage called Ghrit Rishi, and claim connections to the legendary Kauravas mentioned in the Mahabharata. The community also claims descent from the Rajput Kshatriyas.[1]

At the beginning of the 20th century, the Ghirths were the dominant cultivators and marginal landholders in the Himachal region.

Related groups British colonial administrator Denzil Ibbetson, in his Panjab Castes (1916), considers Ghirth same as the people that are known as Chahang (or Chang) and Bahti in the eastern and western portion of the lower Himalayan range respectively.[4] The Anthropological Survey of India's People of India series (1996) describes Chahang and Bahti as sub-groups of the Ghirths.[1]

The Ghirth, including the Chahang and Bahti, are classified among the Other Backward Classes by the government of India.[5] The Ghirth, Chahang, Bahti Mahasabha, established in 1932, represents the interests of these three communities.[6] 2409:4055:514:171:B579:A8AF:14DE:2BEC (talk) 10:13, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. – Thjarkur (talk) 11:03, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 October 2020

Remove this because mahesh Sharma has copied this form british writer and Wikipedia is not considering British records . Mahesh sharma doesn’t know anything about this caste and no original work on this caste . He just copied it from the British sources. Please remove this from the article : is

At the beginning of the 20th century, the Ghirths were the dominant low-caste cultivators and marginal landholders in the Himachal region.[2] Since they were considered as a 'clean' (not untouchable) low caste, they were employed as domestic servants by the higher castes: their 'clean' status allowed them to perform tasks such as fetching water or cleaning cooking utensils, which the untouchable servants were not allowed to do.[3] Nevertheless, the Rajput, who were the dominant landholding caste of the region, had imposed social restrictions on them. Around 1926, the Ghirths started a movement to achieve upward social mobility, and started opposing these restrictions.[2] They refused menial work, creating difficulties for the higher castes that earlier employed them as servants.[3]

Mahesh Sharma has copied this from British writer and he has not done any original search on this community.

At the beginning of the 20th century, the Ghirths were the dominant low-caste cultivators and marginal landholders in the Himachal region.[2] Since they were considered as a 'clean' (not untouchable) low caste, they were employed as domestic servants by the higher castes: their 'clean' status allowed them to perform tasks such as fetching water or cleaning cooking utensils, which the untouchable servants were not allowed to do.[3] Nevertheless, the Rajput, who were the dominant landholding caste of the region, had imposed social restrictions on them. Around 1926, the Ghirths started a movement to achieve upward social mobility, and started opposing these restrictions.[2] They refused menial work, creating difficulties for the higher castes that earlier employed them as servants.[3] Kumar Gurav (talk) 09:33, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Melmann 14:09, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 March 2021

हिमाचल के चौधरी घिरथ कहे जाते है जबकि सम्पूर्ण भारत वर्ष में चौधरी जाटों का पर्यायवाची माना जाता है 182.72.242.163 (talk) 06:11, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: Text is not English. ~ Aseleste (t, e | c, l) 06:32, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Ghrith was jatt not rajput

Ghrith was jatt not rajput, rajput not a cast its a mixed group of all casts Amit toor (talk) 07:06, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

This is not full information about girth community

VishalChaudhary074 (talk) 10:26, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Primefac (talk) 11:00, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 December 2021

Iamvishal074 (talk) 14:01, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

There is wrong information about Girth caste. According to the state government,Local people and many articles, Girth caste is an upper level farmer. On Wikipedia page has written inappropriate and violent information about this caste.

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:20, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Girth is not low caste

If Girth are low caste, then they are considered as SC, ST, but they are considered as OBC like Saini and Jaat. OBC considers economically weaker sections from minority communities. Girths are not low caste. Delete the 3 and 4 links of this topic. It is totally false information. Mahesh Sharma wrote false information in their book. Iamvishal074 (talk) 16:00, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

Remove the Mahesh Sharma article on Girth caste

Mahesh Sharma is spreading false information about this caste delete link 3 and 4 information from this topic. If Girth are low caste, then they are considered as SC, ST, but they are considered as OBC like Saini and Jaat. OBC considers economically weaker sections from minority communities. Girths are not low caste. Delete the 3 and 4 links of this topic. It is totally false information. Mahesh Sharma wrote false information in their book.

http://ncbc.nic.in › himachalPDF 1 CENTRAL LIST OF OBCs FOR THE STATE OF HIMACHAL ... Iamvishal074 (talk) 16:06, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 January 2022

117.215.148.215 (talk) 07:29, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Please remove semi-protected

 Not done: requests for decreases to the page protection level should be directed to the protecting admin or to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection if the protecting admin is not active or has declined the request. Cannolis (talk) 08:38, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

The Ghirth (also known as Ghirath, Ghrit or Chaudhary) is an agricultural Hindu Jat caste

The Ghirth (also known as Ghirath, Ghrit or Chaudhary) is an agricultural Hindu Jat caste[1]found in the state of Himachal Pradesh in North India.[2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.215.148.215 (talk) 07:32, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Caste

घीर्थ , कोई छोटी जात नही है। और ना ही जाट थे। आधी अधुरी जानकारी ना उपलब्ध कराए। 696MKV (talk) 11:12, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Unless you provide a request in English, chances are good nothing will happen. Also, if you're proposing a change, you'll need reliable sources to support it. Primefac (talk) 11:32, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

False information ==

Girth is not a low caste . They are not even considered in OBC if they don't have income less then 2.5 lac per annum . They considered in general category if they have their own land and yearly income is greater then 2.5 lac. Please remove this line " girth are low and non touchable . 2409:4056:E37:8EE:0:0:348B:DB07 (talk) 13:46, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

Hurting Community Feelings

Dear Administrator Hope you're well This Wikipedia article contain some irrelevant words that hurting the feelings of this caste like ( Low caste ). Low caste is not mentioned in any official book or record. Low caste word hurts the feelings of whole community Please remove this word from article.

Hope for positive action

Regards 2409:4055:2DC2:5F26:3F2:63B0:80AD:61A (talk) 15:43, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

We do not sugar-coat or otherwise whitewash history. Primefac (talk) 15:09, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

False information "Low caste" word only added to degrade the community.

Please provide valid source for adding the word "low caste" ? This is controversial and no record have been found proving the fact. 2409:4055:512:E5EA:0:0:9B4:40B1 (talk) 16:03, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 December 2022 (2)

Please Change "At the beginning of the 20th century, the Ghirths were the dominant low-caste cultivators and marginal landholders in the Himachal region.[2] Since they were considered as a 'clean' (not untouchable) low caste, they were employed as domestic servants by the higher castes: their 'clean' status allowed them to perform tasks such as fetching water or cleaning cooking utensils, which the untouchable servants were not allowed to do.[3] Nevertheless, the Rajput, who were the dominant landholding caste of the region, had imposed social restrictions on them. Around 1926, the Ghirths started a movement to achieve upward social mobility, and started opposing these restrictions.[2] They refused menial work, creating difficulties for the higher castes that earlier employed them as servants.[3] "

their is no mention of stating ghirth as LOW CASTE ,otherwise an lawsuit has to be filed against Wikipedia for defaming and hurting the rights of the Ghirth Caste people.

hoping for a positive response, Amrik Thakur (talk) 08:05, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

We have a source that appears to indicate otherwise. Legal threats are not allowed on Wikipedia, but if you really feel the need then placing then on-wiki will do nothing; contact Legal on legalwikimedia.org. Primefac (talk) 09:54, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

References