Talk:Geoffrey (name)

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Etymology

If I understand correctly, there is an argument by Dauzat (1980) that Geoffrey is not in fact derived from Goda-frid but instead from Gaut-frid.

These are two early West Germanic names which were both conflated into Old High German Gotfrid.

Dauzat seems to argue that the two sources of "Gotfrid" can still be told apart in French, because one became Godfrey and the other Geoffrey. His argument requires the assumption that the names developed strictly phonetically, which of course is often not the case in given names.

As far as I understand the standard assumption is that Geoffrey developed from Godfrey by deviation from strict sound laws, possibly by analogy with Georges. What we have here is the alternative suggestion that early Germanic phonology survived into Old and Middle French.

If I understand correctly, then, this is a respectable scholarly hypothesis that can well be explained in the article, but it shouldn't be presented as "fact" or even as the most likely or generally accepted scenario.

--dab (𒁳) 13:23, 1 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"His argument requires the assumption that the names developed strictly phonetically, which of course is often not the case in given names" is wrong, every language adapts the borrowed names to its own phonetics, just two exemples Antoine is not Italian / Spanish Antonio and not English Antony, all from Antonius, but the French language modified the phonetic ANTONIU > Antoine, the /i/ moved to the second syllable according the general law of the French language, from Latin to French; same thing for Charles, it is not Carlos and not Karl, all from Karlo. There is no French name *Carles because the group /ca/ turned systematically to Cha- in French (Carles is attested in Norman and in Picard, because /ca/ remains /ca/ in these languages). These are well known facts.

The fact Joffrey is written Geoffrey does not have anything to do with phonetical developments, it is just a way to write it after Georges to look better ! Of course the Germanic anthroponyms borrowed by Gallo-Romance, mainly from Old Low Franconian, follow the general phonetical laws of the Gallo-Romance language that further developed to French. The groups /go/ and /jo/ can never be confused in (Old) French, there are distinct phonems. A Go- can never turn to Jo-, it is absolutly impossible. There is no example of that. Not a single one ! Dauzat is not the only one to develop this theory, but Guinet and others as well : Geoffrey and Godefrey are not the same names. Gallo-Romance borrowed two distinct names *Gautafrid and Godafrid. Godafrid is a compound of GUD and FRID and there was another one : GAUT, another name element, we can find in Old English as géat and it is not the same as god for analogous reasons. Of course there will be people to explain : if Godefrey turned to Geofroy, it is due to the French popular form of Georges that was Joere, Geore, Jore, Jores, Jorres from Latin Georius, popular form of Georgius, so Jorres would have influenced the development of Joffrey, who can prouve it ? /Jor/ is not /Jof/ no reason for it.

Nortmannus (talk) 20:07, 2 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Unetymological fusion

Zephyr, Zephyros, Zephyrous has nothing to do with Geoffrey, but it's an Anglicising compromise for some Greek families.