Talk:G. Callen
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Grigori or Grisha?
[edit]As I remember, in the episode "Matryoshka (2)" his Father says Grigori Alexandrovich Nikolaev. Grisha is a pet name (like Dick and Richard). --Riepichiep (talk) 11:04, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
- His father in the episode said "we called you Grisha," IN the current season, Callen has introduced himself twice as "Greg." 72.209.145.66 (talk) 02:51, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
- Riepichiep is correct. It should be "Grigori Alexandrovich Nikolaev". Grisha is a diminutive form of Grigori. In Russian, when a name is accompanied by a patronymic, the full form of the first name is always used. It's Grigori Yefremovich Rasputin rather than Grisha Yefremovich Rasputin, Mikhail Sergreyevich Gorbachev rather than Misha Sergeyevich Gorbachev, etc. If there are no secondary sources explicitly addressing the full form of Cullen's birth name, it is better to remove the "Grisha Alexandrovich Nikolaev" bit from the lead sentence and instead say something (preferably sourced) about the birth name in the main body of the article. Nsk92 (talk) 18:01, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
Callen's father
[edit]Is Callen's father dead now ??? --J. Bauer (talk) 15:50, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
Callen's Nationality
[edit]Callen's Nationality: American vs Russian-Romanian-American
The debate so far - please discuss after the second line. Mn1548 (talk) 19:14, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
Callen is a multi-national citizen I have provided ample souces testifying to this. Now I could understand how this would be OR if the fictional universe was not our own but it is well know that the NCIS universe is the same as our own by reference to real events like 9/11 and the killing of Bin Laden, and the mentioning and appearances of real people like Bill Clinton, George Bush, Vladimir Putin, and Michelle Obama. The only problem I can actually see is it is based off the assumption that he hasn't renowned his citizenships, but this is proving a negative so unless it can be proved that he has renounced these citizenships this information should stand. Mn1548 (talk) 12:03, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
- Sources must explicitly support claims. In this edit, the first source you've used talks about his mother, not him, so it can't support a claim of Romanian citizenship. The second source is a generic link that doesn't mention either Callen or his mother so it can't be used as a source either. Using those to claim Romanian citizenship is classic WP:SYNTH, i.e. combining material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources. The third source does not say that Callen is Russian and the fourth source is another generic source that does not mention Callen or his father so that doesn't support the claim either. Even worse, it dates from 2002, well after Callen was born, so it's really irrelevant. The program is a work of fiction and fiction does not have to follow the rules of the real word so anything can happen, regardless whether it references the real world or not. --AussieLegend (✉) 13:06, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
- By that logic of "Anything can happen" you could argue that the charters that were born in America are actually Portuguese - it's complete rubbish. Callen was born in Romania as stated in the season 2 finale which makes him Romanian. His father is Russian which makes him Russian. All following the respective nationality laws. If you won't accept that the rules of the real world apply to this fictional one even though the fictional world is the real one then anything on these pages would be WP:SYNTH as you would have to combine the s reference for him being born in Romania and a reference that by law that makes him Romanian. On an unrelated note please explain why if there wasn't "ever [a] disputed that Reeves was British" did you revert that when I put it on saying it was unsorced then removed the sorces I added in a later edit but keep the fact he's British? Mn1548 (talk) 15:21, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
By that logic of "Anything can happen" you could argue that the charters that were born in America are actually Portuguese
- Such is the nature of fiction.Callen was born in Romania as stated in the season 2 finale which makes him Romanian.
- In fiction, that's not necessarily the case. It may well be in the fictional world that being born in a particular country doesn't make you a citizen of the country. The point is you need a citation from a reliable source stating specifically that Callen is Romanian.why if there wasn't "ever [a] disputed that Reeves was British" did you revert that when I put it on saying it was unsorced then removed the sorces I added in a later edit
- That was a mistake. I apologise for that. --AussieLegend (✉) 15:35, 15 June 2019 (UTC)- OK, for Reeves, fair enough; but regarding Callen I totally disagree. If the NCIS fictional universe wasn't based on reality then I would be agreeing with you but the fact is it is. Some stuff may be factually inaccurate eg the Navy Yard didn't in 2012 but you don't get large abstract inaccuracies like people being born in Romania to a Romanian family not being Romanian.Mn1548 (talk) 17:21, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
- It doesn't matter what the fictional universe is based on, WP:V is a core policy and you need strong sources for claims. Anything else, and especially OR, is unnaceptable. --AussieLegend (✉) 17:43, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
- Yes it does. Because it is based on reality a reference to say he was born in Romania should suffice. And to be honest with you I could be asking for you to be provideding a reliable source to prove that he has renounced such citizenships to prove he is only American. I agree that WP:V is important and I have provided sources to prove he is of such nationality and anyone who knows about his characterisation would agree.Mn1548 (talk) 18:18, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
- As I've said, it doesn't matter what it is based on because fiction doesn't have to follow the rules of the real world. Most fiction mentions the real world but it doesn't have to follow the real world because of that. You're completely wrong in claiming that it does. Sources have to explicitly support claims. That means a claim that he is of Romanian nationality requires a source that says he is of Romanian nationality. A source that says he was born in Romania can only support that specific claim. It can't support a claim of nationality. It's really as simple as that.
I could be asking for you to be provideding a reliable source to prove that he has renounced such citizenships to prove he is only American
- No you couldn't because no such claim has been made. What has been stated is that he is American, because that's all we have proof of. I don't need to prove he's not Australian either. We automatically assume that because it has never been stated, just as it has never been stated that he is Romanian. --AussieLegend (✉) 18:37, 15 June 2019 (UTC)- With him being Australian that's different as there is nothing in the slightest to even suggest that he it. Where as there is much evidence to support the fact that he is Russian and Romanian. In addition you could easily argue that there is nothing to explicitly say that he his American (let alone the fact that it isn't referenced). We could assume he is American because he lives there and he's works for NCIS but by your argument this isn't enough to make that conclusion as "fiction doesn't have to follow the rules of the real world". And regards to referenceing. This pages only has 7 references all to episodes of the show, 4 to the same episode so with your outlook you should really be deleting this page. Clearly, it is hard to source fiction as a lot is left open to interpretation. But stuff that is so heavily implied and stuff that if stated the only inference is such should be included.Mn1548 (talk) 19:02, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
- It seems we're going nowhere. I suggest that you take this discussion to the relevant noticeboards where you can get opinions from other editors. They will confirm what I've said is correct. i.e. sources must explicitly support claims, as that is what WP:V says. Mere assumptions are original research and are not permitted. --AussieLegend (✉) 19:09, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
- Will do.Mn1548 (talk) 19:11, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
- It seems we're going nowhere. I suggest that you take this discussion to the relevant noticeboards where you can get opinions from other editors. They will confirm what I've said is correct. i.e. sources must explicitly support claims, as that is what WP:V says. Mere assumptions are original research and are not permitted. --AussieLegend (✉) 19:09, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
- With him being Australian that's different as there is nothing in the slightest to even suggest that he it. Where as there is much evidence to support the fact that he is Russian and Romanian. In addition you could easily argue that there is nothing to explicitly say that he his American (let alone the fact that it isn't referenced). We could assume he is American because he lives there and he's works for NCIS but by your argument this isn't enough to make that conclusion as "fiction doesn't have to follow the rules of the real world". And regards to referenceing. This pages only has 7 references all to episodes of the show, 4 to the same episode so with your outlook you should really be deleting this page. Clearly, it is hard to source fiction as a lot is left open to interpretation. But stuff that is so heavily implied and stuff that if stated the only inference is such should be included.Mn1548 (talk) 19:02, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
- Yes it does. Because it is based on reality a reference to say he was born in Romania should suffice. And to be honest with you I could be asking for you to be provideding a reliable source to prove that he has renounced such citizenships to prove he is only American. I agree that WP:V is important and I have provided sources to prove he is of such nationality and anyone who knows about his characterisation would agree.Mn1548 (talk) 18:18, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
- It doesn't matter what the fictional universe is based on, WP:V is a core policy and you need strong sources for claims. Anything else, and especially OR, is unnaceptable. --AussieLegend (✉) 17:43, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
- OK, for Reeves, fair enough; but regarding Callen I totally disagree. If the NCIS fictional universe wasn't based on reality then I would be agreeing with you but the fact is it is. Some stuff may be factually inaccurate eg the Navy Yard didn't in 2012 but you don't get large abstract inaccuracies like people being born in Romania to a Romanian family not being Romanian.Mn1548 (talk) 17:21, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
- By that logic of "Anything can happen" you could argue that the charters that were born in America are actually Portuguese - it's complete rubbish. Callen was born in Romania as stated in the season 2 finale which makes him Romanian. His father is Russian which makes him Russian. All following the respective nationality laws. If you won't accept that the rules of the real world apply to this fictional one even though the fictional world is the real one then anything on these pages would be WP:SYNTH as you would have to combine the s reference for him being born in Romania and a reference that by law that makes him Romanian. On an unrelated note please explain why if there wasn't "ever [a] disputed that Reeves was British" did you revert that when I put it on saying it was unsorced then removed the sorces I added in a later edit but keep the fact he's British? Mn1548 (talk) 15:21, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
Further revealings about his past (ca. Season 13)
[edit]It seems that he was a) in a brutal russian training program for spy kids and later b) in Hettys training program for spy kids as well. Or something like that. It's getting confusing by now. And I'm not sure if there is a logical time line for all this or if this contradicts earlier information. 2A02:8109:D80:2FA4:AC07:983B:F9BD:FB02 (talk) 01:13, 29 December 2022 (UTC)