Talk:Fyodor (disambiguation)

Please stop removing the speedy delete tags.If you wish that this article be reviewed then place a hangon as described on the tag. Planetary Chaos Talk to me 00:09, 4 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I was the admin reviewing the speedy delete tag (because we're the ones who handle speedy deletions, obviously) and in normal cases, disambiguation pages for names are kept, as long as the articles listed are relevant and notable. That's why it does not qualify for speedy deletion. -→Buchanan-Hermit™/?! 00:13, 4 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Recent move

What was the purpose of moving the disambiguation page to "Fyodor (disambiguation)"? Surely, the software engineer guy isn't all that well-known for his pseudonym to be the primary topic listed at Fyodor?—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 16:50, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fedor Emelianenko

This page used to provide a link to the page on Fedor Emelianenko as part of the disambiguation of "Fedor." I strongly believe that this should continue as many people know of Mr. Emelianenko's first name but do not know how to spell his last name. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 196.40.10.253 (talk) 04:10, 6 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Please read disambiguation page guidelines at WP:MOSDAB which specifically state that people of the same first/last name as the title of the disambiguation page should only be included when they are frequently referred only by that first/last name. Yemelyanenko could be listed on "Yemelyanenko" disambiguation page (if we had one), but he (and almost any other person by the name "Fyodor") is clearly out of this "Fyodor (disambiguation)" page.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 13:23, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I can understand why this is needed for large disambiguation pages, but this one is tiny. I was looking for the page on Fedor Emelianenko and searched for Fedor to find this page. Most people I talk to know Emelianenko by first name only and very few, if any, would be able to spell his surname. I would like to add the link to Fedor Emelianenko again. Gimboid 22:47, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am sorry, but the size of the page has nothing to do with its compliance with the guidelines. We don't list people by their first names on disambiguation pages, unless they are known strictly by their first names. That includes royals, nicknames, aliases, place names, concepts, but not Dostoyevsky, Ushakov, Yemelyanenko etc., etc. Disambiguation pages are nothing more than combined redirects and should be treated as such.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 12:21, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Added Emelianenko back in per Wiki guidelines. Quote: People who happen to have the same given name should not be mixed in with the other links unless they are very frequently referred to simply by the single name. This is most certainly true for Emelianenko: he is not only frequently, but overwhelmingly often referred to just by his first name. In fact, he is most well known "Fedor" out there - as an experiment, please type in "Fedor" in Google and see what it comes up with. -CasualFighter 04:27, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yemelyanenko is no Elvis, and google hits should never be used as the only criteria to fix this kind of arguments. If you disagree, please bring this to the attention of the Disambiguation WikProject participants; let them help sort it out. Having worked with disambiguation pages extensively myself, I firmly believe this entry (as well as any other person with the first name of "Fyodor") does not qualify.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 14:34, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Having done a bit of disambiguation work since my last comment I'm going to chime in again. If you take a look at the Barry disambig page you will notice it lists 5 people with the first name Barry, but none of them are frequently referred to as simple "Barry". I think the best solution would be to redirect Fedor to Fedor Emelianenko and add a link to point to this disambig page, but thats obviously my opinion. Therefore I think we should take it to the disambig project participants and have a vote of some sort. Gimboid 15:46, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fyodor (or Fedor) is a very common Russian first name. There is no way it should be redirected to some obscure figure such as Yemelyanenko. He may very well be known by his first name to those who know him, but overall he is a relative unknown. As for the "Barry" example, that one should be cleaned up as well. Once again, no disambiguation by first name is allowed by MOSDAB, unless a person is known solely by his/her first name. When you say "Fyodor", an average educated person is most likely to think about Tsar Fyodor, or about Fyodor Dostoyevsky, but not about Yemelyanenko. There are hundreds more notable people than Yemelyanenko with this first name.

To summarize: the Russian tsar is included because royals are known predominantly by their first names. The hacker is included because "Fyodor" is his nickname by which he is known (by the way, that article should be moved to Fyodor (hacker) or something, because it occupies a valuable spot where this disambiguation page should have been). Dostoyevsky is not included because "Fyodor" is merely his first name. Yemelyanenko is out for the same reason.

I hope I made my point clear. If not, please do not hesitate to contact the Disambiguation WikProject participants—the more people look at this page (and other pages which disambiguate first names), the sooner order will be brought to this area. Best,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 19:13, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Ezhiki,

I noticed that you singlehandedly have been reverting edits to this page by literally dozens of other wiki-editors trying to add a reference to Fedor Emelianenko. Please, take a deep breath, and instead of reverting the edit yet again, discuss it with us here first, Ok? Perhaps we can work it out. Now, on to your points:

You said: no disambiguation by first name is allowed by MOSDAB, unless a person is known solely by his/her first name. That is actually not quite correct - the policy states that disambiguation by first name is allowed if the person is very frequently (not "solely") is known by the name in question. Please review the policy to verify.
You have called Emelianenko "obscure" and said that "there are hundreds more notable people than Yemelyanenko with this first name." I am going to assume good faith here, although these statements in combination with the multitude of your reverts might seem a bit like bias. Do you mind providing a source verifying that there are "hundreds" of more notable people who are very frequently referred to as just "Fedor"? Thank you.
To summarize: Fedor fits both the MOSDAB standard, as he is very frequently referred to as "Fedor", and more than satisfies the notability standard. Unless you dispute either that he is very frequently referred to as "Fedor", or that he is notable enough, you should not be reverting this entry.

Thank you -CasualFighter 22:05, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Here are some examples showing that Fedor is very frequently referred to as just "Fedor":

As you can see, these are all from different domains. -CasualFighter 22:27, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, CasualFighter! Don't worry, I'm quite calm :) Still, I do not find your arguments convincing. Any person (notable or non-notable; it doesn't matter) who has a first name would be very frequently referred to by just that first name. The way I read MOSDAB, the commonality of such practice is exactly why editors are discouraged from listing people by first name on disambiguation pages—if such practice were allowed, every disambiguation page dealing with first names would be overloaded with lists of people. The way you draw the line is by putting people who are "very frequently" referred to by the first name on one side (to be included) and people who are "not very frequently" referred to by the first name on another side (to be excluded). The problem with such approach is its subjectivity. OK, you found some links confirming your point of view (thank you for taking time to do that, by the way, although, unfortunately, very few of those links can be called reliable), but MOSDAB does not have any criteria as to how many such links would be sufficient, or if links alone could be used for proof, or even what "proof" would be.

Anyway, since this argument basically boils down to policy interpretation, I will cease my reverts (you were right about my acting in good faith, by the way—I was merely enforcing the policy according to my understanding of it) and will seek further guidance at the disambiguation project. Please let me know if you have any further questions for me. Thanks.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 16:22, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Great! I'll be happy to continue this discussion once we get more clarification on what distinguishes "very frequent" use from just "frequent" use. Whatever the new standard is, however, I am quite certain that Fedor will meet it, seeing how overwhelmingly often he is referred to as just "Fedor" in combat sports circles. In fact, just the other day I saw an article in a print magazine entitled "Fedor is not happy" :) . Until then - yours - CasualFighter 04:22, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hopefully he is not unhappy because we can't decide how to treat his name here :) Anyway, I'll file an inquiry as soon as time permits. Best,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 12:24, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Why Fyodor, as it's not per guidelines?

From Wikipedia:Romanization of Russian: "When something has a conventional name in English, use that name instead of transliterating."

From Romanization of Russian/Harmonization:

name	transliteration	conventional
Фёдор	Fyodor	Feodor, Fiodor, Theodor

Why is this dab under the transliterated form and not under a conventional form? What am I missing here? --maf 21:51, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What you are missing is that WP:RUS is a policy, and the harmonization page is simply an unfinished worksheet by a few people; it was never put up for discussion or voted upon. When it comes to Russian first names, a lot of discussion can be held regarding what's conventional and what's not.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 02:06, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]