Talk:Friedrich Meinecke

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Historismus Translation

I changed the translation of Die Entstehung des Historismus from "The Origin of Historicism" to "Historism: The Rise of a New Historical Outlook," which is the title of the English translation (trans. J. E. Anderson, New York: Herder and Herder, 1972). Since the English title is not a direct translation of the German title, I thought it would be more helpful for English readers looking for the book to render it that way. However, if a more literal rendering of the German title is preferred, please note that the translation should be "The Origin of Historism" rather than "The Origin of Historicism" (i.e., the "ci" should be left out). This might seem like an insignificant difference, but the two words refer to rather different ideas, which are often confused with each other—I see no reason to perpetuate this problem. (For more on this, see the wikipedia article on Historism.)128.143.1.150 (talk) 05:54, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Supporter of ethnic cleansing against non-Germans

Currently the article fails to mention that Meinecke was an active proponent of the idea of ethnically cleansing Central Europe from non-Germans to make room for German colonists. --MyMoloboaccount (talk) 19:37, 26 December 2012 (UTC) I restored information with quotes that was deleted by anon IP.--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 14:24, 30 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Given that this is mentioned on one page only in this book and it was nothing special those days I have removed this from the lede and made a few corrections in the main body.Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 18:42, 31 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Uh, so... advocating ethnic cleansing was "nothing special in those days" and hence it should not be mentioned here. Riiiiiggggghhhhht. It's obvious you're just looking for excuses to revert MyMoloboaccount in an attempt at provoking him. And even if these edits weren't bad faithed, they're still POV, seeing as how Meinecke's views "survived the war": "Meinecke blamed the victims (Jews) in his widely read book... accusing the Jews of being hasty and greedy in enjoying their new power after German defeat", "But when it came to the Jews, Meinecke's thoughts reflected the same old anti-Semitic prejudices". And there's plenty more like that. It's not UNDUE, it's PARFORTHECOURSE.Volunteer Marek 22:33, 1 April 2013 (UTC) Volunteer Marek 22:33, 1 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It clearly belongs in the article, but perhaps not in the lead depending on how prominent it is mentioned in the literature about him. One article in a graduate student journal doesnt by itself suggest very high notability of this critique. ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 22:38, 1 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I thought the source was this [1], a book from CUP. Is it a journal? Volunteer Marek 22:41, 1 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The source currently given to support the "ethnic cleansing" argument is Telos which seems to be a graduate student journal at SUNY Buffalo. The CUP book only supports a neutrally worded description of his proposed policy. ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 22:49, 1 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Given that as the article says Meinecke was 'probably the most famous German historian of his generation' and the authors who mention his advocacy of expulsions emphasise that ″even Meinecke″ did it, it (and Courland case in particular) was not the most prominent or defining feature of his activities. Based on current references it clearly does not belong to the lede, hence I removed it yesterday.Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 22:59, 1 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Good summary! The edit proposed by MyMoloboaccount with Volunteer Marek [2] is so biased that it's obvious advocacy against Meinecke.--walkee^talkee 23:33, 1 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I see that you've very quickly learned this game called "stalking users". Picked it up from Miacek or are you an autodidact?Volunteer Marek 23:52, 1 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know why you think it matters how I or others came to this Wikipedia article but talking about this it seems that you have been the one who followed Estlandia to this article. In my opinion it is true what Estlandia writes, so I believe that I have the right to state this. Could you be more polite please?--walkee^talkee 00:17, 2 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Whether it goes in the lede or not, the current phrasing "so as to restore the 'German character' of the areas" basically sneaks in Wikipedia voice into Meinecke's words. It implies that there actually was a "German character" to Poznan and Wielkopolska area. Yes, I know there's the " ' " around "German character" but it still gives an incorrect impression.

The stuff on his anti-semitism, pre and post war, should also be included in the article.Volunteer Marek 14:14, 2 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well the areas of West Prussia and Posen DID have German character, you can't erase it from history.Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 14:14, 21 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

West Prussia yes, to some extent, Poznan/Wielkopolska, no, not really (not until the massive Germanization program) which what this ireferring to.Volunteer Marek 01:52, 22 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This in context of population, the readers shouldn't be confused into thinking that these territories ever had German majority-which they did not.

--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 15:21, 21 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Removal

I've removed the mention 'who supported Nazi invasion of Poland' from the lede. The world does not revolve around Poland. Whilst it has a place in the article body, it is just a minor aspect of Meinecke's whole Gesamtschaffen. Otherwise we would need to add 'he (she) supported the Soviet annexation of Eastern Poland' to the respective articles of all Soviet historians who ever wrote anything on the Soviet 1939 Polish campaign - which, I think you all agree, would be ridiculous. Regards, Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 13:43, 2 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Article needs urgent Bias treatment

Can someone process this article regarding Bias?

https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Wikipedia:Guide_to_addressing_bias

It is interesting to compare the content with the German Wikipedia. Meinecke is known as a liberal-conservative historian, he is not known to be a main protagonist of Nazi ideology as implicitly suggested in the header of the English article.

Thanks! --Ischtiraki (talk) 13:07, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes please. This article is slightly bizarre. Meinecke was a major German / European historian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:FB:E716:6148:15AA:421:E62E:5C1D (talk) 23:06, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]