Talk:Frank Lloyd Wright/Archive 1

Archive 1

Frank - Japan?

Karen Severns and Koichi Mori made a documentary, Magnificent Obsession: Frank Lloyd Wright's Buildings and Legacy in Japan. His chief assistant was Arata Endo. Seems like Wright's experience in Japan, as they claim, could have lifted his profile at a time when it was rather flat. Is it a good idea to add a section on this episode or does it overload an already long article?

PS I believe he didn't just tone his creations in with the landscape but used materials from the site as far as possible in the building itself. This was a nice economy of context as well as the organic thing. Julia Rossi 23:44, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Suggestions, additions, etc.

firstly, by what criteria are we defining a "work?" built or otherwise. by my own standards I certainly consider the present list to be strinkingly incomplete as well as inconsistently populated.

and scant, scant mention of wright's notable (albeit less known) contributions to the development of american city planning and urban design. some would argue these works to be the the apex of his portfolio.

the man wrote some pretty serious heavyweight books about living & place, but the entire article is just about what he built & architected. no mention of wright's favorite dirty word: rent? what kind of bullshit excuse for an article is this anyways?!

Well sir, this is what makes Wikipedia so great, if you do not agree with or like an article, you can change it. If you truly believe that this article is "Bullshit" why don't you find some better reference material, change the article to reflect this new material and cite the reference. Why complain when you can contribute? T.C. 11:22, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

prarie house. ill-defined and understated. Wright was in constant battle with the paradoxical elements of the suburban ideal. the prairie house he sought to ariculate was an elusive one.

and the fireplace. the defining characterisitic of his most noteable homes -- core and focus. important to wright in its expression and also in establishing the direction of the space.

and automobility. great deal of work reflects his efforts to fuse the automobility of cars with the immobilitiy of the edifice. and not only in reference to his obsession with the "auto objective." jacobs carport was the first such allocation of space is residential architecture. also note the cheney garage.

I think that there needs to be a lot more content and information about Wright's later work, after he returned from Europe. Falling Water is but one of many important designs that he completed in this period. Also, the section about his time in Europe and his personal life should be merged more seamlessly with the rest of the article. There are many facts about his personal life that are mentioned more than once or presented in slightly different ways at different points in the article.

From another user: I deleted in this biography the term "interior designer". He wasn't. He was an Architect with an holistic approach to design, integral design. He used to design all the aspects of the building. Frank Lloyd Wright was Architect as many architects still we use to practice this profession. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.162.0.43 (talk) 13:47, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Ken Burns

ken burns may have named him america's best architect, but i dont think this is relevant information for the -first- paragraph of the article. if we had an interesting facts bit, that might belong there, but one way or another i fail to see the importance of this; even though i agree that FLW was a magnificent architect (and possibly history's best/etc.), there are a -lot- of people who have been named america's best / world's best ___, etc. --shrimppesto

• I don't really know who Ken Burns is, but I guess the phrasing comes about from the Manual of Style's advice to 'Avoid Weasel Terms'. When making a superlative statement such as this, it is generally better to give an attributable source rather than resort to 'some have said that...'. That would be just vague opinion that others may or may not agree with. The statement, 'Ken Burns said that...', is (presumably) true whether you agree or not.
• However, I quite agree it was out of place in the lead para. -- Solipsist 22:35, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
• Ken Burns is a notable documentary film maker. Kalmia 04:12, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Addresses

Do you people think it would be good to add the addresses next to the buildings for those that would like to go by them? A disclaimer noting that some are private residences should be added too. Many of his buildings are located within 40 miles of where I live. I could list some. Kalmia 04:15, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Reference style is off

Okay, so the individual facts don't link to their references. I'm going to add some friendly tags to this effect, and we'll all work it on out. This doesn't mean that I think the facts are untrue, it means that if I were looking for a source to write a paper, I wouldn't be able to figure out which fact came from what reference. 63.231.154.244 20:01, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Building names

In the list of Wright structures, is there a standard reference used to decide the names of the buildings? I started the page for the Charles Weltzheimer Residence, since that is what is used on Wright's bio page, but the house's official name (according to Oberlin College, its owner) is the Weltzheimer/Johnson House. Are the names used here drawn from the Wright archives?

I put in a reidrect from Weltzheimer/Johnson HOuse to Charles Weltzheimer Residence, but I'm not completely sure it shouldn't be the other way around. Douglas Anders 16:54, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Storrer's book, The Frank Lloyd Wright Companion, is considered the gold standard for Wright enthusiasts looking for a system of organizing his works. It has a numbering system (e.g. S.230 is Fallingwater) and naming convention that is very useful. - David Sides October 31, 2006 at 22:56:04 UTC

Cultural depictions of Frank Lloyd Wright

I've started an approach that may apply to Wikipedia's Core Biography articles: creating a branching list page based on in popular culture information. I started that last year while I raised Joan of Arc to featured article when I created Cultural depictions of Joan of Arc, which has become a featured list. Recently I also created Cultural depictions of Alexander the Great out of material that had been deleted from the biography article. Since cultural references sometimes get deleted without discussion, I'd like to suggest this as a model for the editors here. Regards, Durova 15:41, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Added info but need help

I added information about Wright's association with Adler & Sullivan, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how to cite a non-electronic source; I know Wikipedia provides directions, but they read like stereo instructions. Minaker 16:25, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Structure of article

Ive made some changes to this. I think it is difficult to get the right mix of personal life and architectural qualities. Basically i think the thing is to alternate sections of his personl life at the time and his architectural work at the time, and then put the 'legacy' and 'career concept' stuff after his death. But we have pitifully little in this article on many large periods of his life (eg. the textile block houses are missing altogether), so Its not really able to form cohesively yet. If anyone else has a better idea on the structure though, please post it here. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Miscreant (talk • contribs) 13:54, 31 December 2006 (UTC).

Solar hemicycle

Although it deals in detail with the prairie house genre and to some extent with the the Usonian houses, why does the F.Ll.W. article make no mention of the solar hemicycles (e.g., Herbert Jacobs II)? They are a discrete and readily identifiable style which encompassed much of the work from the '30s to the '50s. 139.130.36.190 05:01, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Fallingwater $155k price in today's dollars

Per the consumer price index inflation calculator at http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl , the house would cost $2.25M in 2006 dollars... interesting enough to add to article?

—Hobart 11:27, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that figure is very accurate because the CPI isn't very accurate considering it excludes some things. Has real estate and construction costs ever been a part of it? Average residential rents are a bit different. --Kalmia 15:59, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

In my area of the country, using the CPI to predict future housing costs would significantly underestimate them (though this may not really be relevant, as the CPI would be off for any single item). I do think it would be helpful to make people aware somehow that $155k then is vastly different from $155k now. (It is much more different than people think it is, so in one sense even stating $155k without qualification is misleading.) -DoctorW 20:27, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Good points, I think this should definitely be added to the article, something along the lines of "$155,000 (approximately $2.5 million in 2006 dollars)" or something to that effect.--Gloriamarie 17:35, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Child of the Sun

I may be able to get some photographs around the various buildings that make up the Child of the Sun grouping. If so, I'll upload them and try to find some decent ones for illustrating the article, since it's the largest collection of FLW's work in existence. The Annie Merner Pfeiffer Chapel in particular is a striking building. The Dark 16:39, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Influencing the entire course of architecture

The opening paragraph makes a somewhat weasely claim that FLW influenced the entire course of architecture and building internationally. He was certainly one of the greatest 20th century architects and a defining force in his home country, but the opening paragraph makes it sound as though he rewrote some mystical worldwide construction and design rulebook. Which, plainly, he didn't. I propose putting it back to neutrality either by removing the entire course of or by prefixing architecture and with the word American. Any thoughts? 213.165.225.152 (talk) 16:14, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I think I was the one who changed 'American' to 'internationally' some time ago. I think its a pretty bad opening paragraph too. But I don't think you can limit his influence to the USA, as plainly he was a strong influence in certain architectural movements in Europe (eg. De Stijl), Australia, etc., etc. I do agree about 'the entire course of' though. Why don't we just chop the whole phrase off Miscreant (talk) 01:49, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Lopping it off seems like the best course of action. Perhaps the edited paragraph could read: He developed a series of highly individual styles over a long career, and to this day remains America's most famous architect. This is also short enough to join with the first or third paras and make the whole intro punchier ThwartedEfforts (talk) 20:22, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Photo of playhouse

I think that this website should at least put one of his extremely famous pieces of architechture, the playhouse, which is located Riverside, Illinois, the town next to the one in which I live in, Berwyn, Illinois. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.107.174.231 (talk) 17:26, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

That would be excellent! Maybe you could take a few photos and upload them? (I think you need to create an account for the latter.) —EncMstr 18:11, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Where Frank was from

In the top biography it states that Frank is from Oak Park Ill., yet below it says from Richland Center, Wis.

He obviously spent a number of years in Oak Park, but we in Wisconsin take pride in claiming an accomplished son and arguably the Greatest American Architect in History.

Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.196.77.26 (talk) 21:19, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Consistent with other biographical articles, it correctly lists his birthplace as Wisconsin, but since he is most closely identified during his adult life (and afterward) with Oak Park, that should show up in the opening paragraph. HokieRNB (talk) 21:47, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

He was not from Illinois. He may have lived there later in his life, but he was a transplant. Most condsider Wright to be "from" Wisconsin, which he was. I changed the section to just state "Wisconsin" 216.54.131.165 (talk) 03:23, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I still contend that Oak Park should be in the opening paragraph as he is most closely associated with that over the course of this life and career. However, I will refrain from changing it back to "from Oak Park". The article already states his birthplace in the infobox and in the biographical section, so it would be redundant to include it in the opening sentence. HokieRNB (talk) 12:57, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Functionality of his works

I don't know much about Frank Lloyd Wright, but I've heard that many of his buildings have practical engineering problems, such as leaks and structural faults, and ergonomic problems, such as a chair which intersects with a door arc when not pushed flat against the table, and the arrangement of beams and lighting in a drafting room making supplementary lighting necessary. I don't know how much justification there is for this, and some of it no doubt says more about the faults of building contractors than those of architects. But I tried to look it up, and the only source I've been able to find for this online is

http://www.wright-house.com/frank-lloyd-wright/criticism_fallingwater.html

Within the article, there is also a mention of some of Fallingwater's structural problems, and the words "This appears to have been the result of a faulty electrical system".

I find how-it-works detail interesting, and would like a bit more than offhand references to flashing, poured concrete and cantilevers. It would be nice to have a section on "Functional and Engineering Aspects", or "Maintenance, Safety, and Livability of Frank Lloyd Wright designs", or some such. For an idea of what I'm talking about, I recommend J.E. Gordon's popular structural science books, which should be accessible to anyone literate.

Would anyone volunteer to write this, preferably with help from someone with a background in structural engineering and restoration?

Thanks! HLHJ (talk) 15:37, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Although I have no personal interest in investing the time needed to edit this article as HLHJ suggests; I do recognize that good questions are raised. In this context, the following becomes relevant:

• Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum in New York: A team of restoration architects, structural engineers, and architectural conservators worked together to create a comprehensive assessment of the building's condition in 2007. [See -- here.]
• Imperial Hotel in Tokyo: The hotel passed the most crucial test for any structure during an earthquake: it remained structurally sound despite the Great Kanto Earthquake of 1923. [See -- here.]

In the absence of something more, the demonstrable consequences of Wright's structural engineering schemes in these two examples are noteworthy. In a way, this is responsive to some of what HLHJ questions above. --Tenmei (talk) 16:47, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

The roof leaking in Wright's own office at Taliesin West.

Consider first the fact that many of his designs were of 'new' or different construction to what was commonly built at the time (roofs leaking), and the fact that many of his structural engineers were testing the edges of what was known (fallingwater's need to be reinforced) before you start to complain at Wright. It was a factor of the experimental nature of his works, not oversights that a 'better man' could easily correct. Ergonomic problems were his own, but he pushed the use of space to the edge of practicality sometimes - for which the clients did suffer sometimes. Lighting is difficult for any architect and could well have been a contractor issue. The best source for this would be "the details of modern architecture" by william ford. One of the two books at least gives an overview of wright in this regard (especially as compared to other architects of the time). Just some input. I dont want to write it. (Anyhow - things aren't made to last forever. People kept using them and rebuilding them didn't they?- Miscreant (talk) 21:28, 1 June 2008 (UTC)) Miscreant (talk) 21:20, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

If a building can not be made with the techniques available to the architect and his engineers, it's the fault of the architect. A building isn't only art, it needs to serve a purpose. I know from personal experience that the Marin Civic Center is lovely to look at, but a pain in the ass in every other level. Leaky ceilings, impractical (extremely long and thin, making it a hike to get anywhere). I'm not the only person with these criticisms and they probably should be mentioned. - Richfife (talk) 21:23, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

The architect doesn't operate in a vacuum. A client requests a design and largely specifies the tradeoffs. Who knows what the original tradeoffs would have been: whether to look snazzy, make excellent use of floor space, or minimize copper wire usage. Perhaps the only thing we can guess for sure is that most clients would insist on lots of "bang for the buck". —EncMstr (talk) 21:52, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Actually, FLW was famous for his take it or leave it attitude towards clients and would even drop in unannounced years after houses were built to make sure that his vision hadn't been compromised. - Richfife (talk) 23:57, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I found it humorous that when I visited the Beth Shalom synagogue outside of Philadelphia about 1-2% of the seats inside had buckets on them because of the leaky roof.--Fizbin (talk) 18:45, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Cultural references

Being mentioned in a television episode is probably not worthy of note. Someone publishing an article about how often Wright is referred to in culture is probably more notable. So far as I can tell, the Simon and Garfunkel song is not direct homage to the architect, but rather uses him symbolically as a goodbye from Simon to Garfunkel (see, for instance, this article). In fact, the lyric "so long already, Artie!" is mentioned in this article.

Agreed. However, the one remaining cultural reference is left looking stark and forced. Also, the heading comes below the References section, so its citation is numbered [1] and not noted below it. I suggest either deleting the existing "Cultural References" heading or moving it upwards and fleshing it out with further notable instances of FLW's effect on culture. Binksternet (talk) 20:40, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I moved the section upwards, renamed it, and added the Simon and Garfunkel song back in with reference. Of course, there's room for many more significant cultural influences. Binksternet (talk) 04:32, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Do rejected projects matter at all?

One of the big stories about retail giant Stanley Marcus is the fact that he and his wife commissioned Wright to design them a house, but ended up rejecting the designs when they proved thoroughly impractical (e.g., tiny cubicles as bedrooms for inclement weather only, little to no closet space — this for a man in the retail clothing industry) and exceeded their lavish-for-the-Depression-era budget of $30,000 by 300-500 percent, partly as a result of Wright's original plans and estimate not having provided for the basics already mentioned. Marcus also said in his memoir that he warned the local architect hired as a go-between, Roscoe P. DeWitt, that Wright's buildings were known to be leak-prone and that he should examine the plans closely for "inadequate splashings" (Minding the Store, p. 93 of the edition used by Google Books), which incurred Wright's displeasure. After considerable other back-and-forth over the plans and the cost, the Marcuses opted instead to have DeWitt come up with an entirely new design and build it for them himself. The resulting house is now a Texas Historical Landmark. Does anyone think this tale belongs in the article and, if so, in what section do you think it belongs? I can offer additional citations beyond the one already given from MTS. Lawikitejana (talk) 18:31, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Rejected projects matter if they were influential. A historical landmark qualifies. Binksternet (talk) 00:24, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Even though the resultant historical landmark wasn't designed by FLW, but rather by the guy they selected to replace him? Just checking. Lawikitejana (talk) 02:37, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm... it depends on how much the lost commission affected FLW. If the replacement design was compared to FLW's favorably or otherwise, and FLW lost or gained thereby, its toehold here increases. Otherwise, the mention belongs solely to the Roscoe P. DeWitt page. Just my opinion... Binksternet (talk) 09:35, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

I think it says something about how Wright did business and accepted/rejected projects (on his terms or not at all). I think it could belong to this article easily in this context - landmark status aside Miscreant (talk) 16:42, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Maybe this should go to List of Frank Lloyd Wright works (into "Unbuilt works", with a proper explanation) rather than the main article? --Jashiin (talk) 18:21, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

His only San Francisco building

I'd like to add to his list of works, his only San Francisco building, the V.C. Morris Gift Store (it's now the Xanadu Gallery). It was built in 1948 and is on Maiden Lane. It's a wonderful building. A sort of mini Guggenheim. There's info on it here: [1]--Mcgaugj (talk) 23:36, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

It is already on the List of Frank Lloyd Wright works page, and already has its own page as V.C. Morris Gift Shop... Miscreant (talk) 12:01, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

I've replaced a broken Xanadu Gallery link at V.C. Morris Gift Shop with the link suggested above. --CliffC (talk) 12:22, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Connections with Wales

FLW visited Wales a lot during his life. He would come for insperation, to see family from his mother's side and he was friends with Clough Williams-Ellis, a famous Welsh architect who designed Mediteranean village Portmeirion near Porthmadog, Gwynedd, North Wales. User:90.240.240.155

If you have some evidence that Wales influenced him, put it in. Binksternet (talk) 18:32, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Edit request

Request to edit the "Cultural Influence" subsection containing:

"Simon & Garfunkel recorded a song called "So Long, Frank Lloyd Wright" on their 1970 album Bridge over Troubled Water. Art Garfunkel is a longtime fan of architecture; it has been said that Paul Simon wrote the song as a farewell to his musical partner, using Wright's name to stand for Garfunkel.[38]"

...specifically the removal of incorrect speculation that Paul Simon wrote the song as a farewell to Art Garfunkel. I have in my possession a bootleg recording of Simon and Garfunkel performing in Amsterdam in 1967 in which Art declares that while attending college he "took a liking... to the architecture of Frank Lloyd Wright." Paul Simon then states, "I didn't know anything about Frank Lloyd Wright, however... I proceeded to write the song anyway." which is immediately followed by a performance of the piece. Therefore, it is highly unlikely that Paul Simon wrote the song as a "farewell" with Art in mind.

Thank you to whomever cleans up the entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.158.75.248 (talk) 06:42, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Interiors

Did FLW do enough interior work to allow the lead section to call him an interior architect or interior designer? An anonymous editor keeps removing this, but there appears to be some support for it in the article. Further support could be written in, or the mention removed, depending on the sources. Binksternet (talk) 16:45, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

It depends on what you consider an interior architect. Off the top of my head, I can only think of a couple projects where Wright only/largerly worked on the interior. But Wright was the true total house designer. He would design not only the exterior, but the built-in furnishings, movable furniture, carpet patterns, vases and accessories. He even designed sets of china for some of his houses. If that falls under your definition of interior design, I think plenty of sources and extra detail could be found to support that claim.

A.Fox 01:22, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Westcott House?

Has anyone besides me never heard of the Westcott House (Springfield, Ohio)? I searched throughseveral of my Frank lloyd Wright books and only one even mentioned the house (and even there it garnered a single paragraph in a 500 page book. To me this appears to one of Wrights minor Prairie works, and I don't believe that it should be mentioned in the lead section when there are parobably more apropriate works to mention next to the Robie House. Furthermore, 2 paragraphs more paragraphs are devoted to this house in the Prarie section, a picture is included further down, and it makes the list of selected works. No other work gets that much space in the article.

I don't profess to be a Wright expert, and from the history, the Westcott house has been part of this article for around three years, so maybe I am missing something. But I propose to delete any mention of the Westcott House (it will be still be listed in the List of Frank Lloyd Wright works like all the others) and replace its spot in the Prairie section with a paragraph about either the Frank Thomas House(a work which Wright regarded as his first Prarie house) or the Arthur Heurtley House(another early, yet mature example of the style).A.Fox 01:45, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Update: since a month has gone by and no one has expressed concern on this matter, I have gone ahead an started to make changes. The Westcott house has been removed from the selected works and its second paragraph in Prairie Houses has also been deleted. Most likely the other paragraph will be going soon too once I have some new content to replace it. I plan on writing a paragraph or two that describes the common features and background philosophy of the Prairie Houses.

A.Fox 14:42, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Selected Works

I just finished doing some cleanup on the selected works. I removed ten of the works from the list and replaced them with seven others. My criteria for making the new list was based on the significance of the structure and representation of each of Wright's styles. Hence, several houses from the 40s and 50s were removed simply because they would be considered minor works and are too similar to dozens of other designs by Wright. Among the added works are the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum (can't believe no had thought to include that yet), Annunciation Greek Orthodox Church, and the First Jacobs House (the first Usonian home).

In the future, when adding structures to this list, first consider whether it is either as important as the other 30 buildings on the list, or is representative of a style or type not already on the list. Afterall, we already have a complete List of Frank Lloyd Wright works; this article doesn't need another one. On that note, the end of the list is now a little light on houses. Are there anymore noteworthy houses from the 1940s or 50s that might be included?

A.Fox 04:28, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Deleted Fragments

As you may have noticed, over the last few weeks I have been completing some major overhauling for parts of this article. So far, most of my work has been expansion, but in some cases sentences or whole paragraphs have been deleted for one reason or another. This section is for archiving those (and future) deleted fragments and the reason they were removed.

A.Fox 15:47, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Adler & Sullivan (1888-1893)

Common misconception is that Wright was fired by Sullivan after, supposedly, finding Wright moonlighting; however, the contract with Sullivan didn't limit Wright in that aspect. The mistrust of Wright, on Sullivan's part, came after loaning Wright $5,000 so Wright could build his house. Wright didn't manage to repay the loan, with interest, and this caused a break in he and Sullivan's relationship, as Sullivan trusted Wright enough to loan him the money; Wright claimed he quit.

I could find no sources (reliable or otherwise) to verify this controversial claim. It may be worth reincluding it in the article as a third explanation for Wright's departure from Sullivan's firm, but only if someone can point out a source.

Prairie House

The Westcott House was built in Springfield, Ohio, sometime between 1907 and 1908. It not only embodies Wright’s innovative Prairie Style design, but also reflects his passion for Japanese art and culture in design traits characteristic of traditional Japanese design. It is the only Prairie house built in Ohio, and represents an important evolution of Wright’s Prairie concept. The house has an extensive 98-foot (30 m) pergola, capped with an intricate wooden trellis, connecting a detached carriage house and garage to the main house—features of only a few of Wright’s later Prairie Style designs.

It is not known exactly when Wright designed The Westcott House; it may have been several months before or more than a year after Wright returned from his first trip to Japan in 1905. Wright created two separate designs for the Westcott House; both are included in Studies and Executed Buildings of Frank Lloyd Wright, published by the distinguished Ernst Wasmuth (Germany, 1910–1911). This two-volume work contains more than 100 lithographs of Wright’s designs and is commonly known as the Wasmuth Portfolio.

The Westcott House is not significant enough to have two paragraphs devoted to it. The article is getting very long and there isn't enough room for descriptions of every work. The Wasmuth Portfolio is already mentioned in the following section.

Notable projects after the Prairie Period

During the turbulent 1920s, Wright designed Graycliff, one of his most innovative residences of the period, and a precursor to Fallingwater. The Graycliff estate was constructed from 1926 to 1929 for Isabelle and Darwin Martin on a bluff overlooking Lake Erie, just south of Buffalo, New York. Wright designed a complex of three buildings exhibiting extensive grounds which incorporated cantilevered balconies and terraces, "ribbons" of windows, and a transparent "screen" of windows extracting views of the lake into the largest building, the Isabelle R. Martin House. Graycliff's light-filled buildings were designed in Wright's "organic" style and were built of limestone from the beach below, warm ochre-colored stucco and striking red-stained roofs. Wright's designs for Graycliff's grounds incorporate water features that echo the lake beyond: a pond, a fountain, sunken gardens and stone walls in a "waterfall" pattern that surround the property. On the summer solstice, Graycliff aligns with the setting sun on Lake Erie, as Wright intended.

Again there isn't room for descriptive paragraphs on every house. Other than Fallingwater, the Guggenheim, and a few others, most works should only have a single wikilink or pragraph where apprpriate. The claim that Graycliff was a precursor to Fallingwater is a little dubious; the only thing they have in common are natural materials and horizontal lines (used in most every FLLW house).

Graycliff???

Why this obsession with Graycliff? Graycliff is NOT one of Wright's significant works. There are MANY other projects much more worthy to be held up as an example. The paragraphs about Graycliff read as though they were written by someone who either lives in the house, was close to the family, or is trying to sell the place. 99.64.112.121 (talk) 00:50, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Santiago Martínez Delgado

I believe that references to Delgado need to be removed from this page. My reasons are below.

I have not been able to find any evidence that Delgado worked under Frank Lloyd Wright, or in his Taliesin studio. While I have looked, there is no correspondence between him and Wright at Wright's archives in Scottsdale, Arizona, nor are there any remembrances of him from written memoirs of those who worked with Wright at approximately this same time.

In addition, on Delgado's Wikipedia page, there is a photograph of him "Working in stained windows for Frank Lloyd Wright, 1933." However, Wright wasn't designing stained glass windows by that time; and he never designed stained glass windows that looked like the ones near Delgado in the photograph.

And, finally, the only direct reference that Wright supposedly made about Delgado is on Delgado's Wikipedia page; aside from that, I can find no other corroborating evidence. I think that references to him need to be taken out until an independent source can show that he had a relationship to Frank Lloyd Wright or his studio.

I also posted this on the Taliesin studio page.

Marykeiran (talk) 16:47, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

WWII controversy

The article lacks any mention about FLW's very vocal expressions about the Japanese (where he was highly regarded), the Germans (again, embraced there as well) and the Italians (where he spent his year in exile). He was a vocal anti-war supporter along with Lindbergh and investigated by the FBI. He encouraged and coached his staff to claim conscientious objector status and when that failed made an application to have Taliesin declared a working farm. He might have succeed if he'd not enclosed a 25 page rant about the stupidity of war. The application was rejected and he was investigated for obstruction as it was clear to the draft board that he'd coached his staff. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.128.82.176 (talk) 07:27, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

$80,000 architect's fee

My understanding is that the architect's fee is 10% of the cost of the commission. In which case, if the cost of $155,000 is correct for Fallingwater (I've heard higher and lower estimates), then that would make his fee $15,500. <---10% is correct most of the time but is on the high end of architectural fees.

There is no set percentage fees - that would be price fixing and illegal (the AIA has been sued for even publishing "suggested" guildlines for Architects to use.) Fees are set by a variety of ways, but well run firms will base them on actual time spend on the project, others simply quote percentages and hope for the best. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.128.82.176 (talk) 07:14, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Harvey P. Sutton House in McCook, Nebraska.

Hello. I don't consider myself to be an expert on Frank Lloyd Wright, and that's why I won't try to edit anything. I would like to point out a rather glaring error in talking about Wright's Prairie Style Houses. The Harvey P. Sutton House in McCook, Nebraska is one of Frank Lloyd Wright's works. It is the only house of his constructed in Nebraska. I only try to point this out to anyone who ants to edit this section because if you go to the house's page on Wikipedia, it is listed as being one of Wright's works. This is more of a request to add the link of the Sutton house to Wright's page in the Prairie House section and give a little bit of info about the house, even using the house's Wikipedia page.151.159.105.250 (talk) 06:23, 13 December 2010 (UTC)mc_bob

See List_of_Frank_Lloyd_Wright_works_by_location#Nebraska for the Xref. As you can see, it's not practical to list every Wright building in the main article. Thanks for your contribution, Pete Tillman (talk) 05:05, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Lead

Wright promoted organic architecture

This is important enough to explain exactly what it is in the lead. I'll attempt it. Viriditas (talk) 22:45, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Done. Viriditas (talk) 02:01, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

His colorful personal life often made headlines, most notably for the 1914 fire and murders at his Taliesin studio.

This makes it sound like he was responsible for the murders. I'm going to have to change this. Viriditas (talk) 02:01, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Gale House

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=gale+house&hl=en&sa=X&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=qn3CNDGrd74vXM:&imgrefurl=http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/fnart/fa267/FLW_prairie.html&docid=qO9c1ME1p4uThM&imgurl=http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/fnart/fa267/flw/galehs1.jpg&w=599&h=397&ei=t5A6T7XILI6Etgf945X3Cg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=252&vpy=91&dur=15844&hovh=183&hovw=276&tx=165&ty=121&sig=114425552268297272704&page=1&tbnh=111&tbnw=157&start=0&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0&biw=1024&bih=567

Mrs. Thomas Gale House, Oak Park, IL, 1909. Frank Lloyd Wright, architect.

As a matter of principle, Frank Lloyd Wright did not follow Greco Roman and other European influences; he sought to create an American Architecture.

DAB (talk) 17:20, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Education

According to Wright's own account in, AN AUTOBIOGRAPHY he was home-schooled by his Mother - from his conception - to be an architect; he said he was born in 1869. He said he witnessed the collapse of the State Capitol building as it was being constructed in 1883, and that he studied Civil Engineering for four years, refusing the degree; this indicates that he was attending the University of Wisconsin–Madison in 1883; Arriving in Chicago in 1887 where in desperation, he reluctantly went to work for Silsbee; he only stayed for a year preferring to join Adler and Sullivan.

DAB (talk) 18:30, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Body exhumed and cremated

At his funeral, a horse and wagon carried Wright’s body from the service to the grave, as they had done at Mamah Cheney's funeral 45 years earlier. He was buried near Taliesin in Wisconsin within yards of Mamah Cheney and not far from his mother. Olgivanna died in 1985. Her dying wish was that she would be laid to rest at Taliesin West with Wright by her side. Her followers secretly exhumed Wright’s body, had it cremated and brought the ashes to Arizona where they now rest next to hers in a garden wall.

"Grave-robbing" is what Wright's son David called it when he found out. After the news became public, local officials wrote to Arizona to ask for the return of the remains. "Much more than ashes have been taken from Wisconsin – the citizens of the state have lost one evidence of our history, spirit and genius." Another of Wright's sons, Llewellyn, described the act as a desecration...

DAB (talk) 19:12, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Eddie's House

I just created the Page Eddie's House about a dog house that Frank Lloyd Wright designed and would love for it to be linked to from this page, but am not sure if it should be or where it should go on the page. any help would be great.--Found5dollar (talk) 04:46, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Rosenbaum House

Not mentioned in here? Link should at least be added. 72.148.31.114 (talk) 17:25, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

The Rosenbaum House is of course included in the List of Frank Lloyd Wright works. With over 415 works not all can be mentioned directly in this article. --ELEKHH^T 12:03, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Midlife controversy and architecture

This sub-section has no citations concerning Wright's relationship with Mamah Borthwick Cheney,perhaps some could be added? Anything from Gill's Many Masks or Twobley's bioography of Wright would suffice,as there are only two cications on Cheney's page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jabberwocky199121 (talk • contribs) 15:04, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Beliefs

Hi, I note that Wright is categorized as a pantheist, do we have a source for that? Thanks - KillerChihuahua 15:19, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

I've removed the cat. KillerChihuahua 14:10, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 8 March 2013

Hollywoodland: Frank Lloyd Wright Jkruspe (talk) 01:05, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Not done: Please see the policy on external links. I believe there are already too many external links on this article and I am not inclined to add more. Wikipedia is also not the place to promote your own website. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 15:22, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Leaky roofs

I don't see any mention of the best-known feature of FLW's buildings: the roofs leak. Wright is often quoted as responding to this by saying 'Of course the roof leaks. That's how you know it's a roof'. Unfortunately, the same quote has also been attributed to Mies van der Rohe and other modernist architects, so I suppose we can't take it as authentic. But se non e vero, e ben trovato. 109.158.131.226 (talk) 14:13, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

JR Nikko train station

Hard to believe this structure was designed by Wright, unless while working under Silsbee or Sullivan, before striking out on his own. Both the design style and the date of construction are highly suspect. Not at all a good example of his life's work in any case. It's notable that it doesn't appear in William Allin Storrer's catalog of his works either.

Much, much better examples of his work would be the Robie House, the Coonley House, Wingspread, Fallingwater, or the Guggenheim. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.3.26.62 (talk • contribs) 15:48, 14 June 2004 (UTC)

I agree with the first comment, from June 14, 2004. The J.R. Nikko Train Station has never been considered a work by Frank Lloyd Wright. He was still working as a draftsman for Louis Sullivan in Chicago in 1890, and did not have any substantive connections at that time to Japan. For him to have done a work like this in Japan at that time would mean that he would have had connections, and he would have had to go there, at least once. There is no record of this occurring, and it is accepted that he went to Japan for the first time in 1906. I have never heard that Wright did anything in Japan before receiving a commission for Imperial Hotel in Tokyo, c. 1913. I'm not sure where the author[s] of the article got this piece of information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.185.173.59 (talk • contribs) 21:21, 24 November 2004 (UTC)

A few things....

The details of Frank Lloyd Wrights many personal difficulties are WELL known and documented in his own autobiography, in several books including Many of Many Masks by Brendan Gill and the new Book on the Taliesin Fellowship (although that book makes HUNDREDS of unsupportable claims)

Architects fees in Wrights time ranged between 5 and 7 1/2 % with wright this also generally included HIS structural engineer, but not your own and not the survey of the land. In those day projects rarely needed mechanical engineers, title 24 reports and on and on.

Presently Architecs fees range between 10 and 15% for a residence and usually DO NOT include structural engineers, title 24 engineers, mechanical engineers or engineering for "green" systems. This is not a result of declining ability ofr many in the Architectural field, but mostly of the litigation environment, one that Wright never seems to have faced. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maplefrost (talk • contribs) 02:10, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Influences?

Does anybody know anything about Franks's influences regarding Mayan architecture and Japanese architecture, prints and motifs. The article did not say anything about this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.53.183.226 (talk • contribs) 21:59, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

This is an important question. I just got back from visiting FLW's home in Oak Park, and part of the tour indicates that he did not make much money with the architecture gig, and actually made most of his income trading and selling Japanese prints. The safe in his home studio was apparently mostly devoted to storing Japanese art prints, not for architectural drawings. And there are clear Japanese influences on his style. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.20.1.218 (talk • contribs) 14:52, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Per a book I just completed, Wright was a very accomplished collector (supposedly one of the top for his day) of Japanese prints and at one point had to liquidate his collection in an effort to pay a bank loan. He was quit influenced by the Japanese — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.128.82.176 (talk • contribs) 07:21, 21 January 2011

Class Project Page

This page has been selected by one of my students as a class project. Please be polite and constructive when editing or giving advice and be aware that the students involved in this project are learning Wikipedia along with learning research and writing skills. please assume good faith to their contributions before making changes. If you have any questions, please contact me. --MrSilva (talk) 18:29, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Edit request on March 28, 2014

Regarding the section Transition and experimentation (1893–1900), Marion Mahony is mentioned as having joined Wright's practice in the Steinway Hall building. That much is correct. The section then goes on to say that she was the the first licensed female architect in the U.S. (there's no citation for that, either). That part is WRONG and must be corrected, not just in this entry but also in the one for Mahony herself -- Mahony wasn't even the first woman to be licensed as an architect in the state of Illinois! This I know because I've personally seen the licensure records down at the Illinois State Archives in Springfield, IL, looking for information about the brother and sister architectural prctice of Charles and Elizabeth Wallace of Joliet, IL. Moreover, Sophia Hayden, who designed the Woman's Building for the 1893 World's Columbian Exhibition in Chicago and graduated architecture at MIT, might easily have been licensed in Massachusetts before coming to Chicago during construction of the Columbian Exhibition. Hayden wouldn't have been licensed in Illinois because the state of Illinois only began requiring professional licensure for architects in 1897, and Hayden's experience working under the indomitable Bertha Honore Palmer so discouraged her that she had a nervous breakdown and never designed anything else the rest of her life.

Here's what I found at the Illinois State Archive in the licensure records: Starting on September 1, 1897, the state began accepting licensure applications from architects who were already practicing as such, and ONLY from those working architects. Their applications were considered by a review committee, whose notes I read and also copied. A degree in architecture was not required at the time, and plenty of architects became such by appreticing to other, more experienced architects, as Wright himself did. It isn't clear exactly what criteria were used to determine who was a working architect and who wasn't, but the applicants had to demonstrate that they were, in fact, working as architects, and the committee had to be persuaded; then, all the applicants who had applied under Form A (that was the form working architects had to use) and were approved were 'grandfathered in' and licensed, pending acceptance of the license fee. That last part is important because the ledger makes clear that in a few cases, approval was withdrawn and licenses weren't granted when the fee wasn't submitted on a timely basis. The ledger notes don't include discussion of individual applications, only general meeting notes and lists of who was approved on which day. That group of approved and licensed architects for 1897 included most of the people you'd expect -- John Van Osdel, Edward Burling, William LeBaron Jenney, William Mundie, William Holabird, Ossian Simonds, Martin Roche, Normand S. Patton, George C. Nimmons, Daniel H. Burnham (though not John Wellborn Root, as he had already died), Burnham's protege William J. Brinkmann, Ernest Graham, Dankmar Adler, Louis Sullivan, Frank Lloyd Wright, Henry Worthmann, Gregory Vigeant, Howard Van Doren Shaw, Shepley, Rutan & Coolidge (whose three applications, interestingly, were submitted chronologically on the same day and approved in precisely that order), Irving K. Pond, C.W. Rapp, Frank Shaver Allen (then also of Joliet), and Ms. Mahony's cousin, Dwight H. Perkins, among others. W.W. Boyington's application was first approved, then withdrawn; the fee was never submitted, and he died only a month or two after the application was withdrawn (he may have already been ill and/or retired when the withdrawal occurred).

Three other applications were among that first group: Charles L. Wallace, Elizabeth B. Wallace and (Ms.) Mel Dora Ice of Champaign County, Illinois. Charles L. Wallace had application no. 312, received in mid-November of 1897; Elizabeth had application no. 313, received on the same date (clearly, they sent in their applications together). His was approved Dec. 3, 1897 and hers was approved a week later on Dec. 10th, but the licenses weren't actually granted until the licensing fee was received. Charles and Elizabeth sent in their fees promptly within a few days of approval and received their licenses within two weeks thereafter, before Christmas 1897. In short, they were licensed within a month of applying. Mel Dora Ice, who was approved the same day as Charles even though her application had been submitted much later than either of the Wallaces' applications, took two weeks to send in her licensing fee after she was approved -- so she was licensed second, a few weeks after Elizabeth. And no other woman applied during 1897.

The point here is not only whose license came first, but also the fact that Elizabeth Wallace and Mel Dora Ice were the only women who had applied in 1897 and both were working architects, or at least working as apprentices, to the satisfaction of the licensure committee. Ms. Mahony's application and licensure came later.

After January 1, 1898, all other architects applying for licensure were those who weren't yet in practice; some of them had attended university, some had not -- but ALL architects after that date had to apply under Form B and undergo an examination before their licenses could be approved and (upon receipt of the fee) granted. In January 1898, the third application of the year was that of Marion Lucy Mahony, later Marion Mahony Griffin. Ms. Mahony was examined in February 1898, but she didn't receive approval of her license until a few months later, in the spring. She was, however, the first woman licensed that year and the first woman to pass the examination for licensure (they didn't care that she'd attended MIT; everybody had to take the exam after Jan. 1, 1989). Mahony was, however, only the third woman to become a licensed architect in Illinois. Interestingly, her future husband, Walter Burley Griffin, wasn't licensed until two years after she was. Unlike Ms. Mahony, who apprenticed with someone who became famous, Elizabeth Wallace toiled in her brother's practice, and to this day, we still don't know which designs were hers and which were his because all the commissions were undertaken under the firm's name -- in other words, under Charles's name. At least Mahony got credit for her own work.

However, this now leaves the question as to how to write a citation for the fact that Mahony was merely one of the first woman to be licensed as an architect in the U.S. Can you cite the records of the Illinois Department of Professional Licensure in Springfield? It's not like this information is available online -- it's in a dusty, dirty handwritten ledger book that's falling apart and may never be digitized. I'm changing the reference to Mahony because frankly, Elizabeth Wallace deserves the title of first woman to be licensed in Illinois -- and we have NO idea when the other states began requiring licensure for architects, let alone who the first woman were to be licensed as architects in other states. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.167.50 (talk) 00:27, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Frank Lloyd Wright/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

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Article needs a complete overhaul. Needs at least a 3 paragraph lead summarizing article (see WP:LEAD). Statements need to be sourced, especially some of the controversial parts, or ones that are in danger of being WP:PEACOCKy. Also needs a thorough copy-edit and wikification. One section appears to be written without reference to another as it repeats parts of it (about his marriages). Marriage to 3rd wife is explained without mentioning what happened to the second one... --plange 01:44, 18 October 2006 (UTC) My son has reminded me that the mile high building is a model for the Burg Dubai recently completed. I notice that the article has nothing about the mile high building in it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.125.95.230 (talk) 17:01, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Last edited at 17:02, 7 September 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 14:49, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Middle name dilema

OTRS got a ticket describing a dilema with Wright's middle name. With permission, I am posting it here for editors to review:

In the article about Frank Lloyd Wright, it is stated that his birth name was Frank Lincoln Wright without attribution. This is nothing more than a rumor that has been floating around for years since Brendan Gill published his awful, flawed biography in 1987. It may indeed be fact, but to date there has been no document published to prove the claim. I believe Gill had no trouble bending or even breaking the truth about many of the so-called facts that he published about Wright. Before the 'Lincoln' story is accepted as truth, it should be proved and the documents published. Otherwise, any reference to it should be taken with a block of salt.

Three sources argue against it:

1) In 1928, FLW's older half-sister, Elizabeth Wright Heller, wrote an unpublished autobiography, available from the State Historical Society of Iowa, in which there would logically be mention of her brother's name change, if it had happened, but there is not a word about it.

2) In 1965, FLW's younger sister, Maginel Wright Barney, wrote "The Valley of the God-Almighty Joneses," wherein there is no mention of a name change.

3) In the December 1967 issue of the Journal of the Society of Architectural Historians, Thomas S. Hines, Jr., now a highly respected professor of architecture, then a student at the University of Wisconsin, published an article titled "Frank Lloyd Wright - The Madison Years, Records versus Recollections." Through meticulous research, he set out to settle the discrepancy about Wright's birth year, which he succeeded in doing through census, school, university, fraternity and divorce records, virtually everything that could be found (no birth certificate has ever been located). Although he did not address the name problem (which was not around 47 years ago), it is most likely he would have found any document with that information on it, and that would surely have become the more interesting bit of trivia.

Thanks! ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 21:06, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Bauhuas

Did Frank Lloyd Wright influence the Bauhaus when he visited Europe with his portfolio of architectural drawings, or did the German architects influence Frank Lloyd Wright? His flat roof designs seemed to happen after his visit and tour of Germany? But his portfolio may have contained some designs that influenced the German architects? If it can't be shown that Wright influenced the German architects, and his chairs look like Rennie-Mackintosh chairs (see above), then it could be reasonable to considered Wright a plagiarist (nothing really wrong with that, he was just spreading a style he copied from Europe, but its not then as original as it is presented, but the similarities are striking. ) I do think he may have influenced the Bauhaus though, so if so, can this be clarified with reference to his European tour, dates, and show drawings prior to his trip to Europe?

See some comparisons here ---> http://screencast.com/t/FH48rnnlsQ .

You may want to review Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:No original research. This information would need to have been published somewhere. Thanks, Bahooka (talk) 18:04, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

To Add on to what MrSilva (talk) mentioned

There are also FCPS students using this article and articles like it, so please continue in being constructive.

Yours,

Johannon (talk) 02:33, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

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Birth date

FLW said he was born in 1869, not 1867 as shown in the Article. Who said it was 1867? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.252.154.94 (talk) 16:42, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

The Frank Lloyd Wright Foundation states 1867 here. What reliable source states 1869? Bahooka (talk) 16:48, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

In order to answer the question: "Who said [FLW's birth year] was 1867?". The information was corrected by historian Thomas Hines in the Winter 1967 issue of the magazine, Wisconsin Magazine of History in his article entitled, “Frank Lloyd Wright—The Madison Years: Records versus Recollections,” p. 109-119. In the article, Hines stated that, while historians had, until that time, accepted Wright’s accounting that he had been born in 1869, “[t]hree documents relating to Wright’s Madison years, hitherto unnoted by historians, show conclusively that Wright was born in 1867.” [p.109]

1.) The first of these was the 1880 United States Census, which "lists the names and ages of the family of William C. Wright and his wife Anna, giving the age of a son, Frank, as being thirteen. If Frank was thirteen in 1880, he would, therefore, have been born in 1867, not 1869." [p. 110]

2.) The 2nd piece of evidence comes from one of the schools that Wright attended, the “old” Madison high school (now Central High School). "Wright’s name appears… once in the surviving records of his high school. In the oldest volume… in the school’s collection… Wright’s name appears near the end of the book, with his father’s name, his address, 804 E. Gorham and his birth date, ‘June 8, 1867.’"[ibid]

3.) The 3rd [piece of evidence are his parents divorce records. In them, it is recorded that: “[T]he parties hereto have three children… whose names and ages are as followed: Frank L. Wright, 17 years old, June 8, 1884; [Jane Porter], 15 years old, April 26, 1884; [Maginel Wright Barney], 7 years old, June 19, 1884.” Listed by his father, under oath, as being seventeen on June 8, 1884, Frank Lloyd Wright would, therefore, have been born on June 8, 1867. [p. 111] Marykeiran (talk) 22:42, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Remove reference to Santiago Martinez Delgado

Santiago Martinez Delgado's name needs to be removed. Records of any connection between Delgado and Wright do not exist and there is no record of him ever having worked with Wright, aside from inside the Wikipedia pages. I have looked through Wright's correspondence and Delgado's name isn't on there. In addition, these pages say that he designed stained glass windows for Wright in the 1930s, but no commission by Wright in the '30s had stained glass windows. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marykeiran (talk • contribs) 22:38, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

I was told that I need to explain my relationship to the figure of Frank Lloyd Wright to lend credence to my problems with any connection made between Delgado and Wright: I am the historian for Taliesin Preservation, the organization that is restoring and preserving Frank Lloyd Wright's Taliesin estate in Spring Green, Wisconsin. As the historian, I went to Frank Lloyd Wright's Archives in Scottsdale, Arizona (now the Frank Lloyd Wright Foundation Archives at the Avery Library in New York City). As part of my research, I looked for correspondence from/to Delgado and did not find anything. It would have existed if he were coming out in the 1930s since letters or telegrams were a major source of communication at the time. Marykeiran (talk) 22:52, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Formatting and content

Reformatted to a more chronological order, unified heading and sub heading.Dktrfz (talk) 16:13, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

Did selective deletions on various sections, particular details on various Wright designs, while important to their respective projects, should be in separate Wikipedia entries on the projects themselves, not in the article about FLW's entire life.Dktrfz (talk) 20:23, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

Lots of of un-referenced and poorly written entries throughout article. I deleted one paragraph that was restored by 32.218.38.4, I re-wrote the paragraph.Dktrfz (talk) 22:54, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

Re: Shareride's alteration of "Fallingwater" to "the Fallingwater house". I've never seen it referred to as such, the whole idea of Fallingwater is its integration into its natural site. Anyone care to revert it? (I'm not allowed to make reverts.)Dktrfz (talk) 14:32, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

Re: Welsh Nationality. Did Wright actually have dual citizenship?Dktrfz (talk) 11:47, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

Redux: Welsh-American Architect. While Welsh chauvinism is understandable in the case of Wright, no independent references I could find referred to Wright as a "Welsh-American Architect." Online Britannica, Biography.com, recent articles about the MOMA 150 year retrospective of Wright, none of these referred to Wright as "Welsh-American." Leading the article with "Welsh" gives the false impression that he was Welsh, or that it was an equal part of Wright's life when in fact this is not the case. Since 80.189.53.25 is so keen on this that he/she has reverted edits by more than one person, there is no point in my reverting it any further, I'm not interested in an edit-war, only in accuracy. If 80.189.53.25 would care to discuss this and give some examples supporting his/her assertion, I'd be willing to listen. There are hundreds, if not thousands of books and many more articles articles on Wright. I doubt if any refer to him as Welsh-American.Dktrfz (talk) 23:05, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

Prism tile designs

FLW designed over 40 decorative designs for prism tiles, a historic anidolic construction material. This currently isn't mentioned. HLHJ (talk) 00:19, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Mid Career

This needs its own section, his major public works aren't covered here, while his "problems" are. One might get the impression that he did nothing between 1914 and 1930. Any input appreciated.Dktrfz (talk) 17:44, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

Added section, moved information around to a more chronological order.Dktrfz (talk) 03:16, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

Later Career

Re: Erroneous information by Milleniumtree in the Taliesin Fellowship section. In the referenced article his son-in-law Wes Peters was quoted as saying "He had so much life and energy; it shaped everyone around him," not that he was "difficult person", also Neutra, who did work with Wright for a short time, was an established architect, not a Taliesen Fellow. The assertions in made in the edit are not supported by the reference.Dktrfz (talk) 22:59, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

You're not going to get very far with that assertion. First, "difficult person" is not a quote from the cited article; it's a summary of the article. The article gives examples of Wright's behavior that "didn't make him easy to work for'; talks about those who "suffered under his firm hand"; and quotes Neustra: "He is devoid of consideration and has a blind spot regarding others' qualities". By any measure, that qualifies someone as a "difficult person". There's really no reason to whitewash Wright's foibles. Please sign your comments. 32.218.152.244 (talk) 20:22, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

I didn't "whitewash Wright's foibles", I removed information not found in the reference. I have corrected your erroneous attribution, did you even read the article?Dktrfz (talk) 22:59, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Graycliff

Graycliff proponents are back! This self-serving has been dealt with before (see archived comments), there is little evidence that it is an important work at all, much less that it should be in the article three times. I'm not going to delete the recent entry, just noting it here. Dktrfz (talk) 15:30, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Birth Date

This issue has been dealt with at length before in the archived talk page (https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Talk:Frank_Lloyd_Wright/Archive_1):Dktrfz (talk) 15:17, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Adler & Sullivan

The firm's name is Adler & Sullivan, not Adler and Sullivan. Numerous sources indicate this, a simple Google search will confirm this, including images of their original logo: https://www.dwell.com/article/the-architecture-of-adler-and-sullivan-e67f12f5 Dktrfz (talk) 14:10, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Family

You don't think with Frank Lloyd Wright and nearly 10 family members warrants their own category? I would say they do and it should stay put.--67.86.58.36 (talk) 00:30, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

Changing a category listing on a page to a redlink just removes it from the category and doesn't create a new one. The category needs to be created first. Doing it the other way around is pointless and disruptive. Acroterion (talk) 00:31, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

Well then Mr. Rocket Surgeon, how praytell do you create a new category?--67.86.58.36 (talk) 01:24, 1 April 2018 (UTC) "Family" category has been added.Dktrfz (talk) 16:21, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

Reinforced concrete buildings

Auguste Perret was arguably the first architect to use reinforced concrete in commercial buildings (although some claim might be made for François Coignet nearly fifty years earlier.)Dktrfz (talk) 18:18, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

Destroyed FLW houses

Greetings, If someone wants to add, I can verify from aerial photos that the gatehouse for Eaglefeather, AKA the Arch Oboler House, was destroyed by the recent fire in Malibu. You can get more info here: https://www.tripsavvy.com/arch-oboler-gate-house-eleanors-retreat-4123886 I'm too sad to write anything, I'm going up there next weekend. If I can. One of my oldest friends lost her house a few miles away. This means there are now 5 destroyed FLW houses, and only 8 of his building left in LA County. Joel J. Rane (talk) 13:49, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

AfD for Nakoma Golf Resort

There is an AfD for Nakoma Golf Resort which may be of interest: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nakoma Golf Resort. Nigej (talk) 10:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Country Architect

In the Cause of Architecture, FLW advocated for an Office of County Architect in his venture into Landscape Architecture via the Broadacres City concept of a City & Regional Planning scheme compatible to American Democracy.

The function of a County Architect is uniquely concerned with enforcement of State & Federal Planning Codes effecting Urban growth in cooperation with the County Engineer. County Commissioners have traditionally assumed the Role of County Architect by default for lack of a viable concept. This problem was noted by Thomas Jefferson and has existed since time immemorial resulting in cities of confusion & Urban sprawl.

The talk page in the article on Broadacres City explains this concept from the point of view of a former Apprentice to Wright attending the Taliesin Fellowship in 1958-59. DAB

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:4C0:3:91EA:D5DD:76C7:93EE:CC46 (talk) 18:04, 20 December 2020 (UTC) 

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Frank Lloyd Wright/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: A. C. Santacruz (talk · contribs) 12:11, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Comments

• There's such a large number of {{citation needed}} tags (44 in total) either already present or that I have thought needed adding, so I will move to fail the GA nomination per criteria 3 of WP:GAFAIL. However! As I was previously an architect student and have a fascination for Wright I know most of the claims tagged to either be true or likely to be true. Nonetheless, they need sourcing. I will continue giving feedback below before marking the nomination as fail as I don't see a reason not to. The article is quite a good view of Wright both on his career and personal life, so once the tagging issues are fixed you're basically two steps from the finish line.

Lead

• Grammar, spelling and prose all appropriate. Good balance of professional and personal summary.
• I'd maybe put the last sentence of the first paragraph as the second sentence, as it seems a bit more natural to talk first about how massively influential he was and then about his philosophy. This would also flow more smoothly to talking about the Prairie school.

Early years

• I'd suggest merging the two paragraphs on the father and mother.
• The first sentence in the Education subsection is quite long and has many subclauses. I'd recommend dividing it into three, with the first two being In 1886, at age 19 he wanted to become an architect. He was admitted to the University of Wisconsin–Madison as a special student. The reason why I think the special student clause should be on its own is I don't really understand what that means and thus it probably needs explanation (i.e. is it a special-needs admission, a scholarship admission, a legacy admission, etc.).

Adler

• For that matter, Sullivan showed very little respect for his own employees as well. I'd use Additionally, as it is simpler English but I'll leave that choice to you.

Legacy

• Although Olgivanna had taken no legal steps to move Wright's remains and against the wishes of other family members, as well as the Wisconsin legislature, in 1985, Wright's remains were removed from his grave by members of the Taliesin Fellowship, cremated, and sent to Scottsdale, where they were later interred in the memorial garden. This sentence has too many commas. I'd recommend dividing it into two sentences and simplifying the phrasing.