Talk:Frances Cleveland

Clara or Cornelia?!

The middle name is listed as "Clara" on many reliable sources, but here it is listed as "Cornelia", can anyone clear this up? I'm not sure where to search for it. On her tombstone she is listed as "Frances Folsom Cleveland Preston", but no middle name is cited.

It is "Frances Clara Folsom" —Preceding unsigned comment added by TimothyBanks (talk • contribs) 19:56, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Fascist?

I added a few paragraphs on her abominable activism during the 1910s. She was AGAINST woman's suffrage!!!!! She was also kicked out of the National Security League as she was too extremist for even them. I cold understand why it wasn't mentioned before, but darn it, it's really interesting.Arglebargle79 (talk) 13:27, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

I'm glad "proto-fascist" is in quotes, because it must be communicating irony. Just because she was xenophobic doesn't make her a fascist or proto-fascist, especially because she was not totalitarian, even if she was against women's suffrage. I'm removing this ridiculous usage of "fascism is anything remotely scary, backward, or not politically correct to the standards of today." In other words, in the source it states clearly:

"She suggested that Americans did not unite in support of a strong defense because of what she called the "huge percentage of unassimilated population that cannot think or act together." The sense of psychological indoctrination and use of fear in classrooms to inculcate children seemed to cross a line within the ranks of the organization and Frances Cleveland Preston resigned from the organization on December 8, 1919."

She did not resign because of a belief in superior genetics (national origin is not the same thing as race), she did not resign because she was anti-democratic and wanted a totalitarian state, and while xenophobia may be an aspect of fascist ideology being xenophobic and having your head stuck in the 19th century doesn't make you a "proto-fascist." She may have been essentially a jingoist, this doesn't set her apart from the pro-war group that she resigned from. Indeed, the quote makes it clear, the primary controversy was over how children were being involved and that unassimilated foreigners (primarily Irish and German immigrants) were a potential threat, and indeed this was a very common view in places like New York and Chicago; she wasn't different and scary, she was taking things too far for the decorum of the day and was essential hysterical on this issue -- in a similar manner to how some get hysterical over everything being fascism. She was just too crazy for the crazies. --TheWaffleTruth (talk) 11:58, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 27 April 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved per discussion. (non-admin closure) – Ammarpad (talk) 16:17, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

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Frances Folsom Cleveland Preston → Frances Cleveland – The subject is much better known as "Frances Cleveland" than as "Frances Folsom Cleveland Preston". The proposed name is much more common and more concise. She is normally called Frances Cleveland in other articles, and many users (unnecessarily) pipe the link to this article as [[Frances Folsom Cleveland Preston|Frances Cleveland]]. Even the infobox of this article names her simply Frances Cleveland. Surtsicna (talk) 15:03, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

• Support in addition to being more concise, I'm sure she's far more known for being married to Grover Cleveland than to Thomas J. Preston Jr. Let's not give so much emphasis on the lesser known marriage in the article title and just use what she's more widely known as. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 20:13, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
• Support per nom. This just reverses a redirect and brings the article back to its original title. Station1 (talk) 21:00, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
• Support per nom and SNUGGUMS. Julia ☺ 22:30, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Uncited info

I moved this uncited info to see if anyone has a source.

Frances was the first first lady to give birth to a child while her husband was president. The Clevelands had three daughters and two sons:

• Ruth Cleveland (1891–1904) – Born in New York City during the interval between her father's terms as president. She died at the age of 12 of diphtheria and is buried in Princeton, New Jersey.
• Esther Cleveland (1893–1980) – Born September 9, 1893, at the White House in Washington, D.C. On March 14, 1918, at Westminster Abbey, she married Captain William Sidney Bence Bosanquet of the Coldstream Guards of the British Army. Their daughter was Philippa Foot (1920–2010), the British philosopher.
• Marion Cleveland (1895–1977) – Born in Buzzards Bay, Massachusetts, she attended Columbia University Teachers College and married, first, Stanley Dell and second, in 1926, John Amen, a New York lawyer. From 1943 to 1960 she was community relations director of the Girl Scouts of the USA (Girl Scouts of the United States prior to 1947) at its headquarters in New York.
• Richard Folsom Cleveland (1897–1974) – lawyer. Born in Princeton, New Jersey, he was an officer in the Marines during World War I, graduated from Princeton University in 1919, earned a master's degree in 1921 and graduated from Harvard Law School in 1924. He practiced law in Baltimore with the law firm of Semmes, Bowen, and Semmes and defended Whittaker Chambers against Alger Hiss's libel suit.
• Francis Grover Cleveland (1903–1995) – actor. Born in Buzzards Bay, Massachusetts, he graduated from Harvard University with a degree in drama. After teaching for a time in Cambridge, Massachusetts, he went to New York to enter the theater.

If someone can provide citations, then it can be moved back to the article.–CaroleHenson (talk) 00:22, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Missing section?

This article goes directly from the subject’s early life to her later life with only a passing catalog of children. There is absolutely no information on the part of her life that she was most famous for, being the youngest first lady and very much a subject of media interest at the time. Was this section removed? Was it never written? In its current state, the article is shockingly deficient. The site at has a great deal of information. It cannot be plagiarized, of course, and may have some propagandistic elements. Nevertheless, it gives readers a much better idea of the sort of detail that ought to be included in this article and yet is not.Fleisch57 (talk) 20:11, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Fleisch57 You are absolutely right! Are you interested in working on it? Or, perhaps work together on it?–CaroleHenson (talk) 23:08, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

References

Recent edit

There was some lovely information added to the article, but I reverted it here because it is uncited.

It is very likely that the article will be tagged for uncited content.

If someone wants to research this and provide a citation, that would be great. After I finish working on something, I may come back and do it if no one beats me to the punch.–CaroleHenson (talk) 07:29, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Frances Cleveland/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Ingenuity (talk · contribs) 19:06, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

References

All of the references look suitable, just a few minor things:

• Ref #1: the URL is now dead, so the primary link should be replaced with the archive URL. (the citation also uses a weird format; it could be switched to {{Cite web}})
• Ref #2: add archive URL
• Ref #7: link to the author Robert P. Watson
• Ref #8: merge with ref #2
• Ref #10: link Oxford University Press
• Ref #11: available at archive.org [1]
• Ref #12: can link to A Secret Life (book), as well as the author Charles Lachman. This reference also uses a different format to most of the others -- most are Last, First (year). Title. Publisher. pp x-y. while this one is First Last, Title, p x (year)
• Ref #16: add archive URL
• Ref #17: add archive URL
• Ref #20: link Henry Graff

Prose

• When her father died in 1875, Grover became the executor of Oscar Folsom's estate. Oscar Folsom's name is never mentioned before this; could be changed to "... the executor of his estate."
• Her sister, Nellie Augusta, died in infancy (1872). the year doesn't need to be in brackets; could be changed to "died in infancy in 1872."
• ...she organized a fake fishing trip during which he had a tumor removed. the source doesn't support this; what it does say is To hide the seriousness of the problem from the press, Cleveland scheduled a fake fishing trip, and on board the boat a physician removed the growth. The source doesn't clarify which Cleveland organized the trip, but I did find this source which states that Grover was the one who organized the trip.
• Polling of historians recognizes her performance as above average... the source for this statement is this, which ranks her 13 out of 42, 22 out of 37, 23 out of 38, and 20 out of 38. Three of these rankings are below the average.
• Her presence in the White House mitigated his gruff reputation... President Cleveland is not mentioned in this paragraph. "his" could be replaced with "her husband's".

Spot checks

I've checked most of the footnotes, and except for the couple mentioned above everything checks out.

Other GA criteria

• Well illustrated, images have appropriate licenses: Y all are either public domain or CC BY-SA
• Broad in its coverage: Y
• Stable: Y
• Neutral: Y

Great work on improving this! Please ping me once you're done. — Ingenuity (talk • contribs) 19:06, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Ingenuity I think I've fixed all of the issues that you've listed. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 19:59, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Looks good! Passing now. — Ingenuity (talk • contribs) 20:02, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by BorgQueen (talk) 13:19, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that Frances Cleveland was the first First Lady of the United States to have dedicated journalists write about her activity? Source: Schwartz Foster, Feather (2011). The First Ladies: From Martha Washington to Mamie Eisenhower. Cumberland House. pp. 75–81. Page 77
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Baeoentedon bouceki
  • Comment: I wanted to make hooks for "she was the only first lady to be wed in the White House, and she is the only first lady to have served the role during two non-consecutive terms." but they're not explicitly stated in the article with a source so beats me.

Improved to Good Article status by Thebiguglyalien (talk). Nominated by Onegreatjoke (talk) at 14:48, 16 February 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Frances Cleveland; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• I'll review this one. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) 17:32, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing:
• Neutral:
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: - All of Frances Cleveland's ancestors were from England and settled in what would become Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and New Hampshire, eventually migrating to western New York. This statement is taken word-for-word from this website

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: See above. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) 17:40, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Comment: I was looking for an article to review and it looks like the only issue with the nomination was cleared with this edit on 5 March. MyCatIsAChonk, are you monitoring this nomination? SusunW (talk) 14:15, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

My goodness, I apologize for missing this, thank you for notifying me- approved.MyCatIsAChonk (talk) 16:03, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Featured picture scheduled for POTD

Hello! This is to let editors know that File:Frances Folsom Cleveland, by Charles Milton Bell.jpg, a featured picture used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for July 21, 2024. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2024-07-21. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page. This is her 160th birthday. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 8.5% of all FPs.} 10:52, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Frances Cleveland (July 21, 1864 – October 29, 1947) was the first lady of the United States from 1886 to 1889 and again from 1893 to 1897, as the wife of President Grover Cleveland. She met him while an infant, as he was a friend, and later the executor, of her father, Oscar Folsom. Grover settled Oscar's debts and provided for Frances. She graduated from Wells College, then married Grover while he was president. When he lost reelection in 1888, they went into private life for four years, returning when he was elected again in 1892. Much of her time during Grover's second term was dedicated to their children. They had five; four survived to adulthood. Frances Cleveland served on the Wells College board, supported women's education, and organized kindergartens. Grover died in 1908, and she married Thomas J. Preston Jr. in 1913. During World War I, she advocated military preparedness. She died in 1947 and was buried alongside Grover Cleveland in Princeton Cemetery. This portrait photograph of Frances Cleveland was taken in 1886.

Photograph credit: Charles Milton Bell; restored by Adam Cuerden

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Ambiguity on the main page

The sentence starting with:

Folsom met Grover Cleveland while she was an infant,

has been changed to

Frances Cleveland [...] She met him while an infant, [...]

• "while" is ridiculous here, it should be "as"
• The sentence will be ambiguous anyway.

Let's imagine the following sentence:

"Jim met Ben as an infant."

Who was the infant, Jim or Ben? 85.193.240.163 (talk) 19:08, 18 August 2023 (UTC)