Talk:Forests in Turkey

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Desertarun (talk) 14:31, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that leopards live in the forest in Turkey? Source:Karataş, A.; Bulut, Ş. & Akbaba, B. (2021). "Camera trap records confirm the survival of the Leopard (Panthera pardus L., 1758) in eastern Turkey (Mammalia: Felidae)". Zoology in the Middle East. doi:10.1080/09397140.2021.1924419.
  • ALT1:... that leopards roam the forest in Turkey? Source:Karataş, A.; Bulut, Ş. & Akbaba, B. (2021). "Camera trap records confirm the survival of the Leopard (Panthera pardus L., 1758) in eastern Turkey (Mammalia: Felidae)". Zoology in the Middle East. doi:10.1080/09397140.2021.1924419.

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Vyatka Land

Created by Chidgk1 (talk). Self-nominated at 08:29, 1 June 2021 (UTC).

• The article is new enough (created on June 1), long enough (4003 characters). Earwig's Copyvio Detector detects copyright violation "Unlikely". The article cites sources (although there is CS1 error in reference [9]). A QPQ is done. The hook is under 200 characters (43 characters), is cited (1), and meets the formatting guidelines. But I guess the hook isn't interesting to a broad audience. The source shows that "the leopards were extinct or on the verge of extinction in Turkey towards the end of the 20th century, but recent photographic evidence proves their survival." The fact that leopards live in the forest in Turkey needs to be rephrased to make the hook interesting. Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 04:41, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for reviewing. Have reworded hook with a better verb. I am not American myself but a lot of readers are and I guess ALT1 would be now be surprising for them as it was for me as a Brit - any USA readers like to comment. If anyone has a better idea for a hook please suggest. Kavyansh.Singh your hook ideas welcome - roaming to and from Iraq is maybe too speculative? Chidgk1 (talk) 06:37, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi Chidgk1, thanks for your contribution, but I am still concerned about hook, which is not interesting to a broad audience. Leopards living or roaming in forest of Turkey doesn't grab attention, until they have been recently found, and were previously considered extinct. I suggest the following hook:
"... that recent photographic record confirms existence of leopards in Turkey's forest, which were considered to be extinct in late 20th century?"
If you consider selecting this hook, the same changed need to be made in article too. Thanks! Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 07:06, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

• ALT2:... that many thought leopards had been extirpated from the country, but now they have been snapped roaming the forest in Turkey? Source:Karataş, A.; Bulut, Ş. & Akbaba, B. (2021). "Camera trap records confirm the survival of the Leopard (Panthera pardus L., 1758) in eastern Turkey (Mammalia: Felidae)". Zoology in the Middle East. doi:10.1080/09397140.2021.1924419.

• ALT3:... that camera traps for guerrillas in the forest in Turkey snapped leopards. Different source - will add

if you like the hook.

I guess the issues raised are resolved and new hooks are added by nominator. I leave the review to a different reviewer, who will review the hooks, wording, and everything else. Thanks for your contribution. Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 14:23, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Kavyansh.Singh I did not mean to imply that only native speaker English readers are important. I see you have done a lot of articles about India - obviously India is lucky enough to have many more leopards than here so readers there might be hooked by something different. I would be happy if you are able to continue. If not thanks very much for getting most of it done. Chidgk1 (talk) 14:44, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

New enough, long enough, the "Distribution of forests" section has many uncited paragraphs and statements; these need references before a hook can be approved. No plagiarism or paraphrasing concerns. QPQ completed. ALT 2 and 3 are not in the article, so that information needs to be added. I suggest a reworded ALT below:

• ALT4: ... that while many thought leopards were extirpated from the country, researchers spotted the animal in a forest in Turkey? Source:Karataş, A.; Bulut, Ş. & Akbaba, B. (2021). "Camera trap records confirm the survival of the Leopard (Panthera pardus L., 1758) in eastern Turkey (Mammalia: Felidae)". Zoology in the Middle East. doi:10.1080/09397140.2021.1924419.

This alt wikilinks extirpated and says the animal was spotted in a forest in Turkey, which I think is better phrasing as there is more than one forest in the country. Please post your thoughts below. Z1720 (talk) 18:04, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

It is very rare but not just in one forest (just added another cite to show that). If "researchers spotted" also includes camera traps then ALT4 is fine by me. In which case I would not need to add ALT2 and ALT3. Chidgk1 (talk) 18:11, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

On second thought, I think we need more specific language since the researchers, according to the source, did not see the leopards themselves. I have another ALT below.

ALT5 ... that while many thought leopards were extirpated from the country, researchers documented the animal in the forests in Turkey? Source:Karataş, A.; Bulut, Ş. & Akbaba, B. (2021). "Camera trap records confirm the survival of the Leopard (Panthera pardus L., 1758) in eastern Turkey (Mammalia: Felidae)". Zoology in the Middle East. doi:10.1080/09397140.2021.1924419.

This alt specifies that the leopard has been seen in more than one forest, and taking a picture with camera traps counts as "documented". Let me know what you think, and if you like this hook I will approve it once the last "citation needed" tag in the article is resolved. Z1720 (talk) 23:46, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

OK resolved cites - please go ahead Chidgk1 (talk) 15:11, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

ALT5 approved. Z1720 (talk) 15:48, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Map of orig veg cover

Need something like page 5 of https://www.fao.org/3/CA3505EN/ca3505en.pdf Chidgk1 (talk) 09:27, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

see also archived map request

Detail source and a good article to get ideas from

https://pdf.sciencedirectassets.com/277811/1-s2.0-S1877042814X00145/1-s2.0-S1877042814016930/main.pdf

Forestry in the United Kingdom

Tusiad report

Might be useful to add more from page 19 Chidgk1 (talk) 07:42, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Regions

Perhaps add more from Kırça Çolak re history regions e.g. p216 and 221 Chidgk1 (talk) 09:05, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Liquidambar orientalis

Add about this Chidgk1 (talk) 13:58, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

Also lebanon cedar eg https://www.waldwissen.net/en/forestry/silviculture/plant-cultivation/the-lebanon-cedar-in-climate-change-experiences-from-turkey Chidgk1 (talk) 14:01, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

Erosion

Add more eg https://margistar.eu/unearthing-the-threat-erosions-toll-on-the-mountainous-areas-of-turkiye/ Chidgk1 (talk) 14:04, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

https://webdosya.csb.gov.tr/db/cem/icerikler/ruzgarxing-20211108140359.pdf Chidgk1 (talk) 14:07, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

to be paraphrased

They suggest:

relevant strategies and action plans should include targets to reduce and adapt to the effects of climate change on forest ecosystems, as well as targets that clearly outline the role of forests in terms of carbon storage.

A holistic afforestation action plan should be developed, taking into account land degradation, and in this action plan, potential areas suitable for afforestation through afforestation in Turkey should be identified, taking into account the current land use situation, socio-economic conditions and ecological balances, and the work to be carried out in these areas should be planned.

Legal regulations that directly lead to a decrease in forest area should be abolished, the issue of allocation of forest areas to non-forestry uses should be reviewed, and the issues of climate change and carbon storage of forests should be included in national forestry legislation, especially the Forest Law and the National Parks Law.

Although carbon pricing and emission reduction are essential in the context of combating the climate crisis and the net zero emission target, projects based on "biotic carbon sequestration" are also increasingly of critical importance. In this context, systems and mechanisms that will increase the contribution of private sector organizations and encourage investments for carbon sequestration should be established. For example, improving existing afforestation incentive practices, so that the carbon captured by LULUCF practices can be used for offsetting purposes. Studies such as establishing an integrated system with ETS or establishing a National Afforestation Certification System can be carried out. These certification and trading systems and mechanisms for the LULUCF sector must observe environmental honesty, transparency and contribution criteria; Establishment in compliance with global standards and international validity; It is important to make the necessary arrangements to integrate it into international certification systems. Chidgk1 (talk) 17:50, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

have tried to do Chidgk1 (talk) 09:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

remove this before gan

/sandbox Chidgk1 (talk) 11:53, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

done Chidgk1 (talk) 08:37, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Strategic plan English version

Seems like not 2024-2028 not yet translated - check back later at https://www.ogm.gov.tr/en/stratejik-plan and if translated replace Turkish one cited and see if more info from it should be added to article - maybe goals and KPIs from exec summaryChidgk1 (talk) 08:37, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Forests in Turkey/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Chidgk1 (talk · contribs) 07:08, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Rollinginhisgrave (talk · contribs) 10:38, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Happy to review this. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 10:38, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Content and prose

Lede

• about 11,000: I can't really see this in the body, but from what I can see it seems at odds
• After the glaciers retreated... cut down many trees. this sentence is quite long, and the last clause would benefit from being better joined or being split.
• In the mid-2020s the main source of income is wood, and forests are also important for recreation. a few changes here:

• the main income... Specify for Turkey
• wood -> lumber.
• In the mid -> As of the mid-

Definitions and cover

• The legal definition of a forest In Turkey? Or is this an international standard?
• However, the national greenhouse gas inventory is different -> However, under the national greenhouse gas inventory, standards are different ?
• Why do you define crown closure in the definitions part, and then only ever mention crown cover afterwards?
• (such as its hazelnuts) it's not clear what its is referring to here without consulting the Wikilink.
• Trees grown for crops (such as its hazelnuts) cannot be classified as forests. -> Plantations of trees grown
• deforestation caused by other uses of forest land What does this mean?

History

• Ten thousand years ago, Anatolia was mostly forested,[5] but forest cover why but? If it's that we don't know what happened inbetween, make that clear.
• Prehistory can be studied from tree rings, palynology (ancient particles such as pollen) and charcoal. excessive detail
• (both deciduous, such as Turkey oak, and evergreen oak) Remove the last word "oak" as it is confusing.
• for example in Çatalhöyük gloss this or exclude it.
• Human impact on forests on the land which is now Turkey is thought to be minimal until the Bronze Age at around 3500 BC, which included wood transport from remote areas. very wordy
• Much old growth forest was cut down in the last two thousand years Bring the dates forward in the sentence as you're constructing a time-line, and it's confusing initially if this refers to the previous time listed.
• Sometimes armies in war burnt forests to expose their enemies, ships were built, and forests cleared for agriculture in Turkey. At this time, armies sometimes... Quite a few changes needed in this sentence.

Quite a few changes needed in the rest of the history section along these lines. I'm doing a copyedit, but too many changes here need to be made. I'll skip to the next section.

Old-growth forest

• (sometimes called ancient woodland) probably don't need to include this since it's only in the UK
• and over 500 containing over 500 ?
• Again, don't need to include that they're different from something that's only in the UK.
• by Simay Kırca, Alper H. Çolak and Ian D. Rotherham don't need to include this information, unless you are referring back to them later.

Climate and forests

• increase the amount of forests -> plant more forests ?
• 4% of forests are... by encouraging bark beetles these sentences are far too choppy.
• predicts a 90% reduction give a time on this
• Decreases in precipitation especially include snow. This is very jarring

Okay, I'm going to leave this review here. It needs a thorough copyediting, I've been correcting basic issues such as sentences starting with lower case, and there are serious issues with flow and readability. Ping me when you get through the whole article, and I'll pick this back up.

Ah, I've gone to publish my copyedit to link it here and there's a major edit conflict. I can see you're making a lot of changes; it is clear that you know about a lot of these issues, and I think large parts of my review are now redundant. Please don't nominate an article for GAN if you haven't finished writing it, I will take it out of GAN so you have a chance to finish editing and pick it back up when you feel it is at a GA standard.

Suggestions

• Use the convert template, particularly for hectares
• Use the nbsp template between units if you're not.
• private afforestation permits use a different word for permits as it is ambiguous whether this means allows and is confusing

Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 10:38, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Should I start a separate list article?

@S Marshall or anyone,

Do you think I should make a separate list like List of forests in the United Kingdom or list them here or is the existing category enough? Chidgk1 (talk) 09:33, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

• Wikipedians have thought about this a lot (at WP:CLN) and the community has decided that wherever there's a category, it's often useful to have a list as well (see WP:NOTDUP). Make the list sortable. Personally I would put it in this article, rather than make users click somewhere to find it.—S Marshall T/C 16:39, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Title and scope

I would like to cover trees in general including the Mediterranean forests, woodlands, and scrub and trees in grassland and urban trees in the country.

Should I rename the article or explain the scope somewhere in it? Chidgk1 (talk) 11:01, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

@S Marshall Any thoughts? Chidgk1 (talk) 14:46, 9 October 2024 (UTC)