Talk:Flower mantis

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Mantodea (inactive)

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This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

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Flower Mantis means Creobroter?

I have read on the Creobroter page that Flower Mantis means Creobroter. This is what I read: "Creobroter or Flower Mantises is a genus of mantis concentrated in Western Asia." So does that mean all of the Creobroter species are called Flower Mantises? Or is it the common name for the genus? Instead of

several species in the genus Creobroter

should it be

Creobroter

?
Happy1892 (talk) 23:14, 23 December 2012 (UTC)Happy1892Happy1892 (talk) 23:14, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Capitalizing names?

Should "Flower Mantis" be capitalized because it is a name?
Happy1892 (talk) 23:26, 23 December 2012 (UTC)Happy1892Happy1892 (talk) 23:26, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Adding more mantises to the list

There are more mantids that I know of that look like flowers. But I am not certain if they are alright to be listed here. The Parymenopus davisoni is sometimes called a Yellow Orchid Mantis and Davidson's Mantis. I have not read that the Hymenopus coronatus was called a Flower Mantis but an Orchid is a flower. Hymenopus coronatus is on the list of Flower Mantises here. Actually I have seen a person call Hymenopus coronatus a Flower Mantis but I think he was German.
Happy1892 (talk) 23:34, 23 December 2012 (UTC)Happy1892Happy1892 (talk) 23:34, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think I've already answered this below - and you seem to have guessed the answer, viz., that if you haven't read it then it's not all right. If you can find a decent citation, then use it and <ref>...</ref> it, otherwise not. Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:49, 24 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I added Parymenopus davisoni to the list because I have read that there common name is Yellow Flower Mantis from these two places. and http://www.mantisusa.4t.com/custom2.html. Happy1892 (talk) 17:45, 1 January 2013 (UTC)Happy1892Happy1892 (talk) 17:45, 1 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

These names could possibly be correct, but these are nothing like reliable sources. Reliable places include (major) museums, scientific journals, newspapers with some caution, universities, marine research laboratories, and so on. Ask yourself, would a policeman or a judge accept <website x> in evidence? If it's somebody's blog or a commercial website that was set up yesterday and needs some plausible-sounding text so it's copied some student guff about mantises, chances are the facts haven't been checked terribly carefully, eh? Chiswick Chap (talk) 17:59, 1 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Haha, right. I have heard people call the Parymenopus davisoni Yellow Flower Mantis except those two places. That one place does seem reliable though (knows what he is talking about). http://www.reocities.com/Petsburgh/Zoo/6118/yellow-mantis.html I should look for the scientific journals about mantids and other stuff before I do a lot of this stuff on wikipedia. But I am a bit overwhelmed by all these pictures of mantids I have not heard about hehehe (I just have to see them all). I will take out the Parymenopus davisoni. People usually call them Parymenopus davisoni but not Yellow Flower Mantis. Happy new year. Happy1892 (talk) 20:15, 1 January 2013 (UTC)Happy1892Happy1892 (talk) 20:15, 1 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see any reason to take it out, it's clearly a flower mantis, and if zoos, pet shops etc call it that, that is its common (unscientific) name. So I've put it back. Doesn't mean that better refs wouldn't be an improvement, mind! Chiswick Chap (talk) 11:13, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Parymenopus davisoni is not commonly kept by mantis hobbyists. They are not called by there common very often either. People in the United States just got some to raise (I think that is the first time they were here) a few months ago. I do not know how long they have been kept by hobbyists but I can take a look and find out (other places, not the USA).

Happy1892 (talk) 03:29, 4 January 2013 (UTC)Happy1892Happy1892 (talk) 03:29, 4 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Is that a problem? We have refs for it, and if it's called such things in some parts of the world, that's enough - no reason to insist on US/UK usage after all. Chiswick Chap (talk) 10:26, 4 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No problem. I thought it would be good to know. Happy1892 (talk) 02:24, 14 January 2013 (UTC)Happy1892Happy1892 (talk) 02:24, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Make this article about all mantises that mimic flowers?

Instead of this article being about mantises with the common name Flower Mantis, should this article be about mantises that mimic flowers or that seem to mimic flowers? Instead of

Flower Mantis is a common name given to various species of praying mantis that mimic flowers. Most of these species are in the family Hymenopodidae."

Should it be

Flower Mantis is a mantis that mimics flowers. Most of these species are in the family Hymenopodidae." ?

Then Flower Mantis would mean a mantis that mimics flowers.
Happy1892 (talk) 23:47, 23 December 2012 (UTC)Happy1892Happy1892 (talk) 23:47, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It would do, but unfortunately that's WP:OR as we'd be making up our own usage of terms, so it's forbidden here on Wikipedia. Flower Mantis is used to mean a selection of species and that's what we must go with. What we can do to the article is describe interesting members of the group, supported by citations, and perhaps quote from famous naturalists (Wallace, Bates, ...) who have described it. Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:46, 24 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, thank you. I got a book from a friend last night and it said that Flower Mantids means Hymenopodidae but that book is not updated and there are many mantises in that family that do not look like flowers. Happy1892 (talk) 16:27, 25 December 2012 (UTC)Happy1892Happy1892 (talk) 16:27, 25 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, unfortunately not all books are created equal. I think the current statement (many of that family) is exactly right. I have a feeling that Hugh Cott's book has some good things on Mantises, will look when I'm back home. Happy Christmas - Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:45, 25 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Happy1892 (talk) 05:03, 27 December 2012 (UTC)Happy1892Happy1892 (talk) 05:03, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

When I read this Flower Mantis page it says Flower Mantis is a common given to many kinds of mantids. The name Flower Mantis is not a part of the name of most of those flower mantids. It makes more sense if the page said that flower mantis is a category for mantids that mimic flowers or live on flowers or just Flower Mantids are mantids that mimic flowers. These common names are not as good categories as the scientific categories.

Happy1892 (talk) 00:04, 3 March 2013 (UTC)happy1892Happy1892 (talk) 00:04, 3 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that makes sense. Obviously we must be careful not to invent, but I think we can find sources (books, websites) that use the term that way. Feel free to make the change, with references. Chiswick Chap (talk) 10:18, 3 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

H. bicornis a synonym of H. coronatus?

In the first part of the "Behaviour" "Cott quotes an account by Annandale of the flower mantis Hymenopus bicornis of Malaysia which hunts on the flowers of the "Straits Rhododendron", Melastoma polyanthum." The Hymenopus bicornis might be a synonym of Hymenopus coronatus but I am not sure. I read it here and says "Note: As synonym of Hymenopus coronatus (Olivier 1792)". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Happy1892 (talk • contribs) 17:42, 1 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Chiswick Chap. :) Are you sure H. bicornis is a synonym of Hymenopus coronatus? I am not exactly sure what those notes on Mantodea.speciesfile.org mean. I have seen some weird notes on Mantodea.speciesfile.org. Like this one down here, it says "Not: Synonym of Stagmomantis carolina. http://mantodea.speciesfile.org/Common/basic/Taxa.aspx?TaxonNameID=1048

Happy1892 (talk) 17:17, 4 January 2013 (UTC)Happy1892Happy1892 (talk) 17:17, 4 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The following says so: Costa, The Other Insect Societies p138 has "Theopropus elegans and Hymenopus bicornis [=coronatus] are devoted mothers...". Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:57, 4 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, okay, great. Thank you for the link. I will read it later, my eyes are strained right now.Happy1892 (talk) 02:40, 5 January 2013 (UTC)Happy1892Happy1892 (talk) 02:40, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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