Talk:Flakpanzer Gepard

Wrong Image

The used pic is wrong. It shows a dutch Cheetah-AAT, which is in many respects similair to its german vehicle but differs in some essential parts, like the radar system. Try this image, that's the right one -- 132.199.232.16 21:27, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

The article text explicitly refers to both the Gepard, and the Cheetah/PRTL (see also Variants). --- Kato2k6 21:27, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Th M6 Linebacker is not a comparable system, it should not be in the list. 15:42, 15 December 2008. (CST)

Users/Germany

What should "SysFla" mean? Does anybody more information ?--94.218.248.225 (talk) 11:20, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

"SysFla" is the german military abbreviation for "System Flugabwehr" (System Anti-Air). It's the name under which a new anti-air system is developed that will replace the current systems. At the moment it seems to be a system on wheeled platform (probably Boxer GTK) that uses the LFK NG missile and a 35mm AA-gun.

Here some links: http://www.mbda-systems.com/mbda/site/ref/scripts/siteFO_contenu.php?lang=EN&noeu_id=188&page_id=294 http://www.yourdefencenews.com/introducing+sysfla+-+germanys+next+short+and+mid-range+air+defence+system_25248.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.178.119.89 (talk) 14:06, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

What's with the name?

I keep in almost constant contact with people interested in aviation around the world, and I've never once heard anyone call this by any other name than "Flakpanzer". That includes the gunner of one such vehicle. So why are we using the uncommon name when the general idea here is to use the most common one? Maury Markowitz (talk) 11:23, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Because "Flakpanzer" (real: FlaKPanzer) is just the abbreviation of Flugabwehrkanonenpanzer 87.178.100.244 (talk) 18:07, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Because "Flakpanzer" is just a generic term applying to ANY Flakpanzer in the world, whereas this model is the German Flakpanzer Gepard. Yes, there were other Flapanzers too, google them, though most of them never entered serial production and those who did never matched the capabilities of the German Flakpanzer Gepard. -- Alexey Topol (talk) 09:16, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian (talk) 18:51, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

---

Flugabwehrkanonenpanzer Gepard → Flakpanzer Gepard — Per COMMONNAME. Flugabwehrkanonenpanzer Gepard: 25 Flakpanzer Gepard: 235. Relisted Andrewa (talk) 05:41, 20 January 2011 (UTC) --Marcus Qwertyus 06:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

• Comment: Is either name common in English? Many of the hits in the Google Books search given as the rationale for the move are not or are not entirely in English. [1] [2] are two of the references from the article; One uses each name but both in German not English. Several different English names are given on the web, including these two [3] [4] and Flakpanzer is the more common but not overwhelmingly so. Gepard simply means Cheetah in German, Dutch and many other languages, and seems to have been a Dutch nickname that was applied officially only late in the production of the weapon (fascinating story in the article). The gunner of one such vehicle referred to above probably wasn't a native English speaker, as no English-speaking country uses or has used the weapon. I thought there might be a special naming convention relevant here, but can't find it; Category:Armoured fighting vehicles of Germany doesn't seem to follow any recognisable pattern. No vote as yet. Andrewa (talk) 05:34, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

• Support move. Aside from usage in German, the proposed name is more easily comprehensible. "Flak" and "Panzer" are both terms familiar to English-speakers, so "Flakpanzer" makes pretty obvious what this thing is. Constantine ✍ 16:52, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Pure speculation

"In Germany the Gepard will be phased out in late 2010 and then replaced by "SysFla" a mobile and stationary air defence system using the LFK NG missile and the new MANTIS gun system. The mobile platform of SysFla will likely be based on the GTK Boxer.["

This is pure speculation. The phasing out took place, yes, but the "replacement systems" only exist on paper thus far and nobody knows whether they will ever work and/or be procured. Apart from that, they do not match the capabilities of the Gepard, which is a truly mobile (even all-terrain) armored system built on the base of the Leopard 1 MBT. In short, the Gepard is phased out for allegedly financial reasons (the Bundeswehr got a yearly 30 billion budget - the phasing out of the Gepard is part of a ridiculous 60-million savings plan, so put that into perspective) and the German army is left with nothing comparable. Further reading - http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/474/ -- Alexey Topol (talk) 00:34, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Manufacturer?

Unless I missed it, there is no mention in the article of what company manufactures this vehicle. Someone who knows the answer to this should find a source and add it. LarboardMalarkey (talk) 14:25, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

also no price listed — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.107.65.247 (talk) 03:28, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

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kW/ PS / HP

This being the English speaking Wikipedia, the unit conversions to PS (pferdestärken) are not of much use. Could somebody change them to, or add, hp(horsepower)? Note that imperial horsepower has a different conversion factor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.11.31.209 (talk) 06:44, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Name of Dutch Gepard

As reference to my military duty made in Belgium in a Gepard crew, the name of the German (and Belgian) weapon was Gepard. It was also known in that time that the Dutch version (with another Radar) was called "Cesar".

Also every weapon had a "personal" nickname beginning with the company letter. And on the presentation of the weapon in Netherlands the first one was nicknamed "Cheetah" (being from C-company). This is why (and cheetah being the english translation of Gepard)this dutch weapon is often called as Cheetah. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pcmichke (talk • contribs) 13:47, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

Self-propelled anti-aircraft gun (SPAAG)

This is not exactly true, as self-propelled anti-aircraft gun (SPAAG) implies a gun system mounted on some kind of self-driving chassis. But the Gepard is actually based on the Leopard 1 MBT chassis and armor, so it is not just self-propelled, but a tank. And that is what its German name says, too: "Flak-Panzer" means literally "Anti Aircraft Tank" in English. -- Alexey Topol (talk) 09:10, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Chassis isn't what makes it a tank, the turret, main gun, and mission are. There are few (possibly no) self-propelled guns of any stripe which are not built on tank chassis.

Tanks definitionally do not fire at the sky; they are land-attack vehicles. A tank that has a main gun capable of high elevations is a self-propelled howitzer.

Panzer literally means "armor." The word you're thinking of is "Panzerkampfwagen," "armored fighting vehicle," which in typical German fashion is shortened in conversation. "Flak-Panzer" literally means "armored aircraft defense cannon." 216.74.247.250 (talk) 20:42, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Future -> Current Operator Ukraine

First three units have just been delivered: https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/krieg-in-osteuropa-ukraine-erhaelt-erste-drei-gepard-luftabwehrpanzer-aus-deutschland-a-6951a52b-1f98-4040-b92a-d88e06062684 (German) 79.211.212.150 (talk) 12:41, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

Geopard Ukraine

There is no evidence that the geopards are effective against Russian drones, all the info is just “trust me bro” especially when video evidence of other AA systems show them failing, and there are videos of shaheds still hitting their targets 2600:1014:B052:4EF0:112A:5B8B:8FC8:CDAD (talk) 20:21, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

They simply can't cover every spot in Ukraine, just too few of them. --Denniss (talk) 21:30, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Obviously the Shahed drones are easy to shoot down for any AA system (not very high, not very fast, predictable flightpath). So the "effective" part means cost effective, it is much cheaper to fire a handful of 35mm rounds (in the range of hundreds of dollars) than a missile (e.g. a Stinger costs over 100k USD). And the 35mm ammo is also easy to produce in large quantities, unlike missiles.--2003:E2:C72D:BC00:183B:3E0E:F259:7D87 (talk) 03:00, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

How is there no discussion in the article of the velocity-measuring devices?

These are an extremely unique feature, which are pointed out in an image caption, but not addressed in the body of the article.

What are they? Why are they? What do they do? 216.74.247.250 (talk) 20:43, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

The muzzle velocity is measured to adjust the aim to increase accuracy. There are inevitably slight differences between different ammunition manufacturers or even batches of ammo, and the barrel temperature also plays a role, a hotter barrel contains hotter air that is less dense, that also increases the muzzle velocity. If the muzzle velocity is higher than you anticipated, the trajectory is flatter and the rounds will pass over the target, and vice versa. So instead of sticking to a standard preset to calibrate the aim, the actual speed is measured and (probably as moving average) used as a better value for the following rounds (assuming that the next round is very similar to the previously fired one). Sorry but I have no quotable source for this at hand.--2003:E2:C72D:BC00:183B:3E0E:F259:7D87 (talk) 02:47, 21 May 2024 (UTC)