Talk:Flag of Buffalo, New York

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Heraldry and vexillology

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New York (state): Western NY

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States vs. colonies

According to American City Flags (and thus the North American Vexillological Association): "The 13 stars symbolize that New York was one of the thirteen original colonies of the United States" (p. 52). Unless there is a published source that contradicts this, what is the objection to including this content on this page, along with a link to Thirteen Colonies? --ScottMainwaring 20:33, 11 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

now why would Buffalo celebrate colonial status when every other US flag celebrates the 13 states that declared independence. What is the source the book used???? Of couyrse the quote is flawed: "thirteen original colonies of the United States" should be thirteen original states of the United States" --there were NO colonies in 1777 when the first flag was ordered by Congress. I have been using an academic study: The American Flag, 1777-1924: Cultural Shifts from Creation to Codification

by Scot M. Guenter; Fairleigh Dickinson University Press, 1990 Rjensen 21:10, 11 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The authors of American City Flags consulted the governments of all the cities involved, as well as expert vexillologists. The book is a special issue of the scholarly journal Raven. That's not to say that there might not be flaws in the book. But in this case, I don't understand what is at stake here in terms of meaningful differences in the symbolism of those 13 stars on the Buffalo flag. I think we both agree they represent New York, and the historical fact that in 1776 New York went from being a British colony to a state within the United States. I would assert that the following statements are all equivalent:

The 13 stars symbolize that New York was one of the thirteen original colonies of the United States.
The 13 stars symbolize that New York was one of the thirteen original colonies that became the United States.
The 13 stars symbolize that New York was one of the thirteen original states of the United States.

Perhaps (1) emphasizes the the state of New York's history goes back to colonial times, whereas (3) emphasizes that the state of New York's history goes back to 1776 and idependence, and that (2) uses more precise language than (1). Are such distinctions the subject of Guenter's book? Do they need to be made here? And, more to the point, what is the harm in directing readers to the Thirteen Colonies entry should they want to learn more about the historical facts that flag is representing? --ScottMainwaring 23:05, 11 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Americans celebrate independence, ie #3--Loyalists and Brits talk about the 13 colonies, ie #1-2. Fact is the US flag and seal used 13 stars (seal also had arrows) to represent the new states, said the designer. But when a topic is disputed the recouse is to look for a source, and I wonder what source the flag folks used. I suspect they never thought about it. The flag specialists are wonderful people but they usually avoid politics. (Canada by the way had a HUGE debate about changing flags.) Rjensen 23:14, 11 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rjensen is being extremely pedantic here. I agree with ScottMainwaring. The three statements are equivalent. --JW1805 (Talk) 01:30, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]