Talk:First Romanesque

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I believe "the first stream of Romanesque architecture in Europe" is called Ottonian architecture. Please make sure that this article doesn't contain original research. --Ghirla ^-трёп- 16:48, 5 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The term First Romanesque can be debatable. Anyway, I have read it in several "serious" books together with Lombard Romanesque. As for the problem of Romanesque or Pre-Romanesque, the Lombard (or First) Romanesque is considered to be proper Romanesque. You are right in that it may not be properly the "first", but the term is commonly used. But Ottonian architecture IS considered pre-romanesque, at least Conant, one of the experts in Carolingian art says so.

This article is not about architecture in Vall de Boí. The Style spreaded through the nort of Italy and the Pirinees. If you find it better, you can put it as a section in Romanesque Architecture, with the name Lombard Romanesque. By the way, there is a section in Wikicommons about "Romanico Lombardo", where you can see in images the main characteristics of the style. Anyway, I will find specifical references and bring them to you. It is not original research, the problem with this article is that it is a very short stub. I found difficulties to write in good English, but, anyway, I think that it is better to have a short stub than anything. Ah! and I also would appreciate some expert's help, because I am a Spanish architect, and interested in History of Architecture, but I am not specialised in Lombard (or First) Romanesque. Yours sincerely, --Garcilaso 17:50, 5 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It is not original research. It probably deserves its own article so as not to crowd the Pre-Romanesque page, but it deserves a section at Pre-Romanesque. Srnec 05:01, 6 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is what Joaquín Yarza, an eminent Spanish Historian of Art says, under the title "En torno al primer románico" (About First Romanesque) The original is in Spanish, and the rough translation is mine:

Neither the prestige of the huge Carolingian Empire, nor indeed the much more limited of the Ottonian, achieved to impose valid rules for all Occidental Europe. Nevertheless, from long time ago it is commonly accepted that at the beginning of the 11th century supranational artistic formulae of expression with enough coherence to be classified as a Style, and to consider them defining of the first of occidental styles: Romanesque.(...) We speak about a First Romanesque, and in it a First Meridional Romanesque or Lombard Romanesque, although the last term is not accepted by everybody. We know that, with a former huge tradition, at the end of the 10th century in Lombardy a type of simple and cheap construction was achieved, and reached great success from then to the middle of the XIth century (...) being in Spanish Mark one of the places where the results were better integrated and the solutions more risky.

You can say: he is a part in the discussion, because he is Spanish. This is what the Encyclopedia Americana in its international edition says about the same theme: The first Romanesque style to devote its energy to problems of structure arose in Lombardy then, it quotates the church of Sant'Ambrogio and Saint Michelle, Pavia. I have found that, nevertheless that there is no unity in considering ottonian architecture pre-romanesque or romanesque, because the exact borders of the birth of the Style are diffuse.

About cronological order, the discussion is open, because the beginning of the constructions were often in pre-romanesque style, and then started the Romanesque. I agree with Yarza in the sense that the Romanesque Style birth can be defined when a particular way of constructing succeeded in a extense region, where ornamental and structural characteristics were similar. Anyway, here you have some dates.

San Pietro de Agliate (Monza) 875, Considered by Fernando Chueca, the most presitigious Historian of Architecture in Spain, the probable first church with elements of Lombard Romanesque.
San Pedro de Roda, (Gerona) founded 943, started construction ca.950
Abbey Church of Gernrode, 959-63
Ripoll Monastery (Gerona) Finished and consacrated in 977
Saint Michael of Hildesheim. Built between 1010 and 1020

I think that the term First Romanesque defines better the style than Lombard Romanesque, because Lombard Romanesque suggests Romanesque in Lombardy at all ages, as Catalan Romanesque, or others. The style was developed in three countries, and First Romanesque is more precise. I suggest to move the article again to First Romanesque or at least an explanation of the change.

I have problems in finding more First Romanesque names of churches in Italy. I have more access to detailed information about Spain. Can anybody help me? --Garcilaso 12:03, 8 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The problem here is that "First Romanesque" in Catalan context (explained in part of the article) is different from Lombard Romanesque - although only an bit earlier - but in a global context "First Romanesque" may mean a lot of things. I think this article should be divided in a "Lombard Romanesque" and a "Catalan First Romanesque" - although it's debatable if an article on "Catalan First Romanesque" should be merged into a future article on Catalan Romanesque.--Pere prlpz (talk) 09:55, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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