Talk:Feminine rhyme

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Merge?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

The result was keep. -- Metzby (talk) 04:50, 8 August 2008 (UTC) (who isn't sure, but is being bold in a discussion that's had no dissent in at least 3 months.)[reply]

Yes. Feminine rhyme covers multisyllabic end rhyme in English and French, while masculine rhyme covers final syllable rhyme. Other rhyming effects would be assonance, and "feminine" and "masculine" rhyme are far and away the most common (sole) terms for the rhyme form. I would actually suggest a redirect, with a merge only if the other article really has something to say. (Why is all that hip hop in this article, though? Are readers still confused about what fem. rhyme is at that point, that they need such a long quote?) Geogre 19:30, 18 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No! Multisyllabic rhyme constitues a rhyming scheme independent of masculine and feminine. While masculine involves the final syllable rhyme and feminine involves the penultimate and final syllable rhyme, multisyllabic rhyme involves rhyming schemes spanning more than the last two syllables. Masculine rhyme accents the final syllable and typically contributes gravity to verse, while feminine rhyme offers a less severe, perhaps more lyrically playful alternative. Multisyllabic rhyme, on the other hand, adds intricacy to a text, as well as an unprecedented rhyming conundrum. To fit multisyllabic rhyme into formal meter proves to be a formal challenge, and is therefore used sparingly and often incorrectly in terms of form matching content. Josue, 10:46, 12 September 2007 (PHS)

More importantly, why are you using the outdated sexist terms "masculine" and "feminine"? Most literary handbooks use "stong" and "weak" endings or "stong" and "weak" rhymes. 157.201.136.92 (talk) 05:21, 30 January 2008 (UTC)JCM[reply]

"Most literary handbooks"? Not the ones I've seen. And 458,000 hits in Google for "feminine rhyme" more than justify it having a separate entry. Sadly this entry is a mess. Internal rhyme is a different issue, and multisyllabic rhyme is a broader term, but merging this entry would simply make it harder for readers to find a definition for this specific term. The Eminem section is absurd and misleading. I've removed it, and the Tolkien example, as neither are examples of feminine end rhyme. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.230.114.143 (talk) 02:44, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not an expert, but from what Google Books shows, it seems that "multisyllabic rhyme" and "feminine rhyme" seem to be used synonymously. E.g. Bruce Connell, Amalia Arvanitihere: Phonology and Phonetic, p.162 [1]: "...because it captures feminine (i.e., multisyllabic) rhymes as well as masculine (i.e., monosyllabic) ones." I would therefore support the merger. --B. Wolterding (talk) 16:03, 12 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

- Experts or not, we'll need reliable sources to adopt a name. Off the top of my head I would have thought 'polysyllabic' was more widely accepted word than 'multisyllabic'. Stumps (talk) 05:55, 6 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

- - Polysyllabic? That just doesn't sound right. Those who use multi-syllabic rhymes (most of whom are rappers) generally refer to them as multies, which of course is an abbreviation of multi-syllabic rhymes, or multiple syllable rhymes. Sometimes they also refer to them as multiples. And about the possible merger, I think it's a bad idea. Feminine rhyme in poetry is not the same as multies in music, so I think the feminine rhymes page should have its hip hop section removed and placed in the multi-syllabic rhyme section, but with each page having a link to the other for reference. Gwame (talk) 17:11, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, no, a thousand times no. These are fundamentally different ways of using sound. Multi-syllabic rhyme has not been studied as much in the past, and it is only with the rise of it in hip hop that it is getting its due attention. The article for multi-syllabic rhyme is lacking, but it is different than feminine rhyme (which itself is different from dactylic rhyme, which I haven't seen people mention). Let me put it this way: if masculine, feminine and dactylic rhyme are like 1, 2 and 3 then Multi-syllabic rhyme is like Purple. Metzby (talk) 15:25, 27 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Metzby. How about ditching the tag? There clearly isn't a concensus to merge. -Phoenixrod (talk) 19:11, 27 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The Difference

I think there is a difference between feminine rhymes and multi-syllabic rhymes. Feminine rhymes are still merely one word, e.g. rhyming "measure" with "pleasure". That's a feminine rhyme, not a multi-syllabic rhyme. Generally with a feminine rhyme, the first syllable of each word rhymes, and the second syllable is actually the same as the second syllable on the other word. Multi-syllabic rhymes are different in how they generally incorporate several words into the rhyme scheme. If this is not the case and only one word is present, then all syllables of that word rhyme with their respectives, not merely the first syllable. Gwame (talk) 16:00, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Latin feminine rhymes

The term has the same meaning re English or Latin poetry. I can't recall if there is more than one example in Orff's selections from the Carmina Burana; perhaps someone else will find it handy to check, before i can.
--Jerzy•t 12:17, 18 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Raven

I'm really not up for integrating this, but I think it's a very interesting one to point out: in Poe's "The Raven", there's only one masculine rhyme (door/Lenore/nevermore, etc. throughout the poem). All of the many other rhymes in the poem (some internal rhymes, some at the ends of lines) are feminine: napping/tapping/rapping, morrow/borrow/sorrow, shutter/flutter, etc. Surely one of the sources in the article for the Raven mentions it. ;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.176.216.173 (talk) 06:57, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Accuracy

The un-sourced definition given here contradicts the definition found most everywhere else, which is that a feminine rhyme is a rhyme where the accent is on the penultimate syllable of each rhymed word. Any disagreement? ^Bongo_matic 16:39, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

-- Disagree! And I raise you the encyclopedia Britannica: http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/204113/feminine-rhyme 159.92.231.249 (talk) 19:02, 15 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In the hip-hop example, the only consistent matches are vowels. The official word for this is assonance, not rhyme. Unless you can prove that these words got new meanings since I took English in middle school 30 years ago. Collin237 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.217.232.85 (talk) 01:02, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]