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Archive 1

This page is Archive number 1 from Talk:Faye Wong

Claim to fame in the west

Is she really better known in the west for a video game theme song (admittedly FF) than for Chungking Express? I think we should at least change that line to "her best known song is the west is..." Nateji77 00:16, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Unfortunately, as much as I don't listen to it much anymore, it is one of her most popular international songs. This song in particular is especially popular amongst non-Asians. The majority of them just know Faye for this song only. A shame really, but unfortunately it definitely has some truth behind it. Jason Gervais 00:27, 06 May 2006 (UTC)

stupid question

just curious if anyone can tell me... does Faye know Japanese??? got a music but am not sure if she sang it. thx!

No she doesn't, despite the fact that she starred in one Japanese TV show and recorded two studio tracks in Japanese, Seperate Ways for the show and later Valentine's Radio to celebrate the 30th anniversary of the Japanese diva Yumi Matsutoya's music career.--Wooddoo-eng 18:45, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
She also recorded a version of "Chanel" in Japanese.Boarry 06:00, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
There is another song she did in Japanese called "Destiny", which is featured on a compilation disc called "Enchanting Kaler". It's a disc (of three in total) that feature music from her teenager years before the release of her first official album "Shirley Wong". Jason Gervais 12:08, 05 May 2006 (UTC)

Maybe famous in Mandarin market before 1994

Before Mystery and Sky gained more of her popularity in 1994, was she famous in the Mandarin market like mainland China and Taiwan for writing a few Mandarin songs entitled "No Regrets" and "Tempted Heart" or something else that made her well-known in those areas way before 1994?--Gh87 01:24, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

It's probably the song "Fragile Woman" (also translated as "Easily Hurt Woman") you're talking about. Released on her Coming Home album. Jason Gervais 00:23, 06 May 2006 (UTC)

No, slight correction here. She started off her career in Hong Kong, singing mainly cover versions such as 'Fragile woman' which were immensely popular and established herself as a top female singer. However, it was the release Mystery and Sky that shot her to fame in Asia Pacific.

Regards of her early years

I read the Early Years section, and it seems that it needed some changes for that section by questions and/or comments based on facts and opinions shown everywhere:

  1. She had a short-time modeling career before her contract with Cinepoly. How did she lose interest in this course?
  2. She had a first date in her teenage years, which the Chinese rule forbade children from talking about love. I don't know enough about their relationship, including the time they broke up.
  3. The article said her first three Cantonese albums did "little attention". From what I've heard, they sold well and then led her to fame before her tour in New York and her album Coming Home, which made her more famous than before. Moreover, these albums contained tracks that were radio hits.
  4. Wait a minute! Her grandfather was the congressman in Taiwan? If so, how?
  5. The Wong family prosecuted during the Cultural Revolution, are they related to Faye? If so, how?
  6. Her father was a mining engineer.
  7. From what I've heard, her parents were very hard-workers, leaving her raised more likely by her neighbor. I don't know how to call it, but I think the relationship between Faye and her neighbor seemed as if they're daughter and parent.
  8. After the success of her first three Cantonese albums, she decided not to fit in the so-called "star formula" that was well-used in Hong Kong entertainment circle. From what I heard, she went to New York City WITHOUT telling anyone (maybe except a few, but NOT EVEN the press). True that it was for vocal studies, but also she wanted to explore herself by things, such as hanging around the streets, sampling the music, communication with others, etc. Meanwhile, she lived with her aunt in NYC for a short time.
What else do you know more about her early years?--Gh87 20:32, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

She recorded three albums before the album "Shirley Wong". The rough translations of these albums are, "Where Does the Wind Come From?", "Faye Wong Collection", and "The Longing For Home. All of which were recorded within the years of 1985-1989. I don't know exact dates as to when they were recorded, but it was definitely before her first studio album. I noticed that isn't listed anywhere on Wikipedia, about these three albums. Jason Gervais 14:54, 05 May 2006 (UTC)

I have an album issued in 2004 as "Faye Wong Collector's Album" (printed only in Mandarin) which claims to be a re-issue of her first album made when she was 16. Info here, again in Mandarin: [1] and [2]. Google seems to do a better job than babelfish.altavista at translating the track names; Babelfish translates Wong Fei as "King Phillipines"! Fayenatic london 22:06, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

It's not a re-release of her FIRST teenage album, but her SECOND teenage album. Some great pals who are good at translating things managed to scoop together what seems like a natural and accurate translation of the tracklist:

  • 01-Girl
  • 02-Bygones
  • 03-Walking Naturally
  • 04-I Want You to Know
  • 05-Romance Under the Moonlight
  • 06-Walls of the Heart
  • 07-I'll Let You Guess
  • 08-Childhood of Dreams
  • 09-The Two of Us
  • 10-You By My Side
  • 11-Please Don't Speak
  • 12-Except You
  • 13-Say the Word
  • 14-The Last Confession
  • 15-Goodbye, Friend

Hope that helps. I have translations of the other two teenage albums, if you're interested. Jason Gervais 20:20, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Is it "just" me, or "are" there too many "quotation" marks in "this" passage? Not "that" I think it's implying "anything", but "it's" really annoying.

It's fine. These quotation marks are there to point out songs so it doesn't get lost in a sentence. Jason Gervais 2005 (UTC)

gay icon?

Are there sources to support this quote, "Not only openly admired by well-known celebrities around the world, she was also labeled as the gay icon among the gay community.". I had no idea she was gay?

First and foremost, she is not gay. She is happily married to Chinese actor, Li Ya Peng. Who is a man, for your information. She's also been married to Dou Wei, dated Nicholas Tse, and also dated someone before she was famous. All of whom were men. So, it's clear she is not gay. During the years of 1994-1995, she sported a haircut that many thought that she was gay. She had a boys haircut, sort of. I just like to think of it as really short hair, if you ask me. You can see this haircut in many pictures, or you can just go watch the film Chungking Express and you'll see. Because of that, and also her pixie (meaning very girly, playful, crazy, etc.) kind of personality, many gay people started to like her. There is legit sources which mention it, but I believe they are magazines or statistics that have this information. I'll say this, it's definitely not the first time I've seen her labeled as a gay icon. Jason Gervais 09:36, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, you can expect most Chinese gays aged 30 or below in the Asia region to at least have some idolation towards her. Its mainly due to her good fashion sense, quietly confident character and willingness to be different.

My first thought reading it was like, "She's gay?!" Someone should reword it to "gay fashion icon" instead of "gay icon" which usually denotes the icon being gay herself/himself. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.30.59.2 (talk • contribs) .
I can understand the first thought mentioned here, but the expression gay icon is explained on its own page in Wikipedia. This mentions various characteristics that may lead to a person being adopted as a gay icon. To quote from that page, Faye certainly meets the descriptions of "female musical stars, particularly those with powerful, emotive voices..." and "androgynous pop artists". At any rate she appeared androgynous in the film Chungking Express. So, there's no need to change the wording to "gay fashion icon." Fayenatic london
Evidence here: [3] - 400KB download, retrieved 20 April 2007. University of Technology Sydney News, 8-21 October 2001, p4 Report by Senior Lecturer in the Faculty of Humanities and Social Sciences, Dr Tony Mitchell, who lectures in Hong Kong cinema, states: "In her early 30s, Faye Wong has been compared to Madonna and is as popular in mainland China and Taiwan, where she is a gay icon, as she is in Hong Kong. Like most Cantopop singers, she looks like a model and wears vampy clothes on stage."

her personal favorite song

In the trivia section it states that her personal favorite song is "Kisses In The Wind", featured on her Coming Home album. However I believe this is untrue, because I've read interviews on wongfei.org where she states that it is "Angel". I don't have the source at hand but will try to find it as time permits.--Lasersharp 08:37, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

That statement struck me as very unlikely too. I suggest it should be deleted unless a source can be given. Fayenatic london 21:44, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
I will remove this from the article for now unless I'm (or anyone else) positive it's correct. Jason Gervais 21:38, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
Well, here is a source after all (in Mandarin, but the song title is English anyway): http://lib.verycd.com/2004/12/08/0000029624.html
I'll leave it to Jason to reinstate the point. Fayenatic london 22:46, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
I have a compilation from her teenage years called Enchanting Kaler which lists "Kisses in the Wind" as her favorite song. I wasn't sure of the translation of "喜爱歌曲" in the booklet, but right beside it said "Kisses in the Wind". So I figured "喜爱歌曲" meant favorite song and apparently I was correct! I'll re-add this to the article now. Jason Gervais 10:19, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

eyeglass prescription?

I was reading the last Other section in the article. It says "Her eyeglasses prescription is 400 degrees." -- notwithstanding that I don't think this is very relevant... how on Earth can a prescription be 400 degrees? It doesn't make mathematical sense, since angles wrap around from 360 degrees back to 0. I assume the person meant 40 degrees and it's a typo?

400° prescription is a Chinglish way to say her lens prescription is spherical -4.00 diopter correction.  :-) Anyone one who has astigmatism also knows that the eyeglass prescription has an cylindrical axis orientation that is expressed in degrees that cannot exceed 360° in a full circle. The reference to 400 degree is just an Chinglish translation of 400 whatever unit that is corresponding to the -4.00 diopter in the prescription. Kowloonese 01:49, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Major concert series

I suggest adding a short section listing Faye's major concert series:

  • Faye Wong Live In Concert 1994/95: 18 concerts at Hong Kong Coliseum, 22 Dec 1994 - 8 Jan 95.
  • Faye Wong Scenic Tour 1998/99:
7 concerts in China and one in Japan,
17 concerts at Hong Kong Coliseum, 24 Dec 1998 - 9 Jan 99
then 5 more in Singapore, USA & Japan.
  • "Faye Live - No Faye No Live!" Tour 2003/04: 8 concerts at Hong Kong Coliseum, 20-27 Dec 2003

Source & full list of concerts: "Live" page at http://fayewong.altervista.org/english/index.htm.
All were issued on double albums. The first was televised, the last is available on DVD; what about the others?
Good idea? Any suggestions on formatting? Fayenatic london 11:41, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

good idea, we can also put special songs she sang in particular concerts, for example her covers of other artists Lasersharp 05:56, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
we can also add special characteristics of Faye's concerts such as very little talking, no guests, no dancers, no encores, always ending with "Mortal World" (after that song came out), and the deep bow (~90 degrees) at the end Lasersharp 06:01, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
I think the songs that were not on Faye's studio albums were as follows:
1994: (i) One Thousand Words, Ten Thousand Phrases (Teresa Teng)
1998: (i) Bohemian rhapsody (Queen. Hunh... must avoid making POV comments about this cover... "very very frighting" indeed!) (ii) Auld Lang Syne.
2003: (i) Heart of Glass (Blondie). (ii) The look of love (Bacharach).
Would it be best to refrain, because of NPOV, from any comments about bizarre fashions and not-always-attractive makeup? Fayenatic london 23:18, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
I think I have an idea for you to find sources. Not only you find them by paper and computer, you also must find sound clips of songs. I'm not saying that we must insert sound clips into this article, but I'm telling you to take some samples and verify these songs she sang, especially in concerts. Find these samples online or someplace else. --Gh87 06:50, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
Sorry Gh87, I'm not sure what you are getting at. I was just trying to eliminate from the published tracklists, i.e. the concert CD tracklists, the songs that Faye had already sung on studio albums. I included three more at first that in fact had been on studio albums, so I've removed them from the list above.
I think the discographies are sufficient sources to write a factual article. If I had all the songs to listen to (and I do have most of them), that would mainly enable me to add "Point Of View" comments, but those do not belong on Wikipedia anyway, see WP:NPOV. Fayenatic london 22:00, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
I think you're confused by my misleading passage. By rephrasing my words, instead of inserting sound clips into articles like this one, how about try to find samples online anywhere, listen to them, and verify whether her tributes in singing people's songs exist without inserting samples into articles?
Oh, and also, why not inserting a list of her concerts into Faye Wong discography? --Gh87 00:40, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Basically find soundclips online to make sure she sang the songs you'd like to include. Like Heart of Glass we can verify she sang since it's on her most recent concert CD. So the songs that weren't released officially either on CD/DVD/VCD/etc. should be checked to see if she actually sang them. The clips should not be included in the article though, since I believe it might violate some sort of thing around here. Eh, not sure how we could verify these without including links for reference to people who simply don't believe she did so and so song. --Jason Gervais 11:10, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Aha, thanks for that, Gh and Jason, I get the idea now. Let's keep our antennae in the air for info about extra songs that weren't on the CDs. I had thought that if Faye sang special songs that weren't on her studio albums, the record company would definitely include them all on the CD of the concert because it would be a selling point. Then again, the song list would have changed a bit during a long tour like 1998. So, prove me wrong! Fayenatic london 20:33, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Some of her concert covers can be found on Youtube, would this be a valid source?. Two covers I think we missed:
1994: I Will Marry You Tomorrow Emil Chow
2003: Those Flowers Pu Shu (for concerts in China only, I think) Lasersharp 01:25, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, Lasersharp, I should have picked up Emil Chow's song from the discography notes on Josh's famous website.
There's a privately-taken video on youtube of Faye singing Ph Shu's "Those Flowers" at a concert here. I guess I can ask the owner which concert it was.
For now I'm proposing to include in the table just a short list based on the track lists of the concert CDs. Anyone can change it later of course. Fayenatic london 22:36, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Is it okay to post links to these clips though? Because if we can't post them and if it violates rules on Wikipedia, what is the point to include them? How would we work around this though, if it's not allowed? What if someone asks about a particular song and wants it to be verified? Post a link to the clip for them? Jason Gervais 11:12, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I think the latter is a good idea. If anyone has further comments on this, let's pick this up in the discussion higher up this page on References under "Cleanup Suggestions". Thanks everyone for your contributions on concerts. Fayenatic london 20:55, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Trivia

Here's a copy of the Trivia section as at 14 March 2007, before it gets dispersed or deleted from the article.

Name She has performed under many different stage names:

  • Miss Charm (One of her stage names before 1989)

Her name was changed to 王靖雯 early in her career:

  • Shirley Wong (English name)
  • Wong Ching-Man (This is the Cantonese pronunciation of her Chinese name)
  • Jing-Man Wong (Another way of spelling her Chinese name in Cantonese pronunciation)
  • Jingwen Wang (This is the Mandarin pronunciation of her Chinese name)
  • Jing-Wen Wang (Another way of spelling her Chinese name in Mandarin pronunciation)

Her name was changed back to 王菲 later in her career:

  • Faye Wong (English name with Cantonese pronunciation last name)
  • Faye Wang (English name with Mandarin pronunciation last name)
  • Wong Fei (This is the Cantonese pronunciation of her Chinese name)
  • Wang Fei (This is the Mandarin pronunciation of her Chinese name)
  • Wong Faye (Another way of saying Faye Wong)

Other Languages

  • Wang Bi (Korean form of Faye Wong)
  • Vương Phi (Vietnamese form of Faye Wong)

Other

References

  1. ^ VeryCD.com (in Chinese).
  2. ^ a b Josh's Faye Wong Biography Page
  3. ^ This is also stated in the sleeve notes of the 2003 re-issue of her 1985 album, Enchanting Kaler. However, in her 1998 interview on CNN, she declined to name one favourite song, saying that there were several that she liked.
  4. ^ Xiaobao Chen, ex-Universal Records Hong Kong CEO (in Chinese), 前環球總裁披露王菲舊事 與鄧麗君難了合唱緣


I suppose the name trivia can go. Maybe we could include the first "other" trivia (with her personal favorite song) within the article which mentions about "Coming Home". The rest I don't think are necessary. Jason Gervais 20:11, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Archive 1

Cleanup Suggestions

What should be done about the cleanup tag? The Chinese Wiki page on Faye Wong has quite a bit more information, perhaps we should get some ideas there (as suggested by the echo tag above this page)?--Lasersharp 18:39, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

We should start with listing sources where this information has come from. I suppose most of it is from Faye Wong websites. I've got my information from the following websites:
Josh's Fayevourite Faye Wong Page:
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/8598/faye/
All About Ah Faye:
http://www.wongfaye.org
As to where these sites get their information concerning certain things is a different story. There is numerous sources such as magazines, interviews, movies, and so on. I think I'd be difficult to get sources for everything on here, to be honest. Jason Gervais 10:50, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Can somebody add some information on her Only Love Strangers album? It's the only empty field right now. --Lasersharp 16:06, 10 June 2006 (UTC) I removed the stub tag from Only Love Strangers, as it should be okay now. We should now concentrate on the Scenic Tour one now. 1998 was the year she was interviewed by CNN, but I don't know much information about that. I've seen the interview, but I don't have a date as to when it took place. Maybe someone can help with that. Jason Gervais 19:50, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

References

I think we ought to have a standardized reference section, for example see Madonna's page Lasersharp 06:06, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree, let's do it. I'll be happy to help. Do you have another source for the world record? Guinness World Records have changed their site, and it now features only a selection of the 40,000 records in the Guinness World Records database -- not including Cantopop. I guess we can still refer to them as the source, stating the date you checked it (June 2006), without a link. Fayenatic london 20:50, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
OK, that's done. Now we can add more references to the article when we find reliable sources. Fayenatic london 14:05, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
looking good, thanks for your time!Lasersharp 03:22, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
I don't like the third one, where it says Faye quits for love. There is no solid proof she quit or anything. She's on a break from singing for awhile, I believe. Maybe it should be reworded? Jason Gervais 18:33, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
The text of the Wikipedia article is correct, "her manager confirmed that she might retire". The reference text is a direct quote of the headline given at the source page, which I think is normal practice for citations. However, you have a point, so I've moved the quote marks to indicate that "to quit" is part of a news headline rather than a fact. Fayenatic london 13:05, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
- Rejoice with me, I found a copy of the old Guinness World Records page at the Internet Archive! I'd never even heard of that site before, but read about it on Wikipedia while trying to research whether we can post links to YouTube. I didn't reach a conclusion on that. I noticed that someone has just added a YouTube link to Madonna on Letterman so let's see if that is allowed to remain. Fayenatic london 14:11, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
- Well, all four Youtube links have just been deleted from the article I just mentioned, citing copyright violations, so I guess we should not link to YouTube videos in our Refs. However, I don't see why we couldn't give some search criteria that help to locate relevant evidence on YouTube. Fayenatic london 21:48, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't feel we should link to VeryCD in the references, since that place is full of illegal activity. Haven't the people involved with this site rip and share Faye Wong's material and make it readily available as a torrent? Jason Gervais 09:10, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Hello? I posted the last comment almost a month ago. Jason Gervais 23:52, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
I've left it there so far as it includes some info I haven't seen on other pages, e.g. a longer list of Faye's favourite artists including Whitney Houston and Zhang Ya Dong (張亞東). If we can find another source for these that appears to be more original/reliable, then let's include that and drop VeryCD. Fayenatic london 10:53, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Tag Removal

Are we ready to remove the tags on the top of the article or should more work be done to clean things up? I just finished cleaning up the intro to be more neutral Lasersharp 22:15, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, there are only 10 references so far, and a lot of unsourced claims that can't be verified from CD sleeve notes. I think we should give much more evidence. If anyone needs to check the pattern for the Ref format that is now used in the article, click on the References section, as it is documented there. We should also add an "External Links" section. Fayenatic london 22:26, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
I added some references, but forgot to adhere to the reference format rules. I will correct it when I have some more time. Lasersharp 04:40, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Album Covers

If anyone has some time, I think we ought to place an album cover next to each album introduced, like the one done for Fable already. Lasersharp 04:39, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

My initial reaction is that this would be more than is required for an encyclopaedia article. The discography article has links to external sites which include these. However, I've been thinking for some time that we should at least include the cover of Chang You (1998) as it was such an iconic image. One question first: are we sure there are no copyright problems over album art? Fayenatic london 10:59, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
I checked and there is no problem showing album art. It's one of the categories of image that is always OK. Fayenatic london
How can we add covers for her other albums when the article isn't exactly coherent? It seems that it's kind of split into two. I like the idea of splitting the years up as was done with EMI period (1997-2001) and Sony period (2002-Present). However for Innovation as Faye Wong it's completely different. I'd be a disaster if we add covers in there at present time. Jason Gervais 06:44, 11 Janurary 2007 (UTC)

Standardization of Album Sections

We should reformat the stuff under "Alternative Experiments" so that each album there is contained in a separate subsection. In essence, it should in my opinion adhere to the format set under the "EMI Period" section. Lasersharp 17:46, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

OK, I've done that. Fayenatic london

Structure of article

Spurred by Gh87's insertion of a "wikify" tag, I also rearranged the article, separating personal life from music career. Somebody else quickly removed the tag anyway. Fayenatic london 23:21, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Another user has contacted me to say the article has too many subsections, and it ruins the article. I'm not sure I agree, but I do think the article looks worse since I rearranged it. The reason is that I introduced two new "level 2" headings, Music career and Personal life, so all the other headings had to go down one level. Level 3 and 4 headings look too similar to each other. Level 3 and 5 look better in my opinion -- I tried it in two browsers; does anybody agree? See demo here: [4]. That's using level 5 for the album titles. However, leaving out a level of titles does not follow the Wiki Manual of Style.
There are problems with the content as well, e.g. the commentary under Faye_Wong#1997_Faye_Wong refers to her motherhood, but at the moment her motherhood is only mentioned in Faye_Wong#Personal_life i.e. after the end of Faye_Wong#Music_career.
So, I propose to re-order the article as it was, mixing music career with personal life. All the headings in both these sections will become one step more major. Do others agree? Fayenatic london 23:53, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Ya, now that I looked it over, it is a little tedious. I probably shouldn't have made the suggestion to subsection it even more earlier. Now I think it's better grouping stuff together inside her Music Career in bigger sections separated by years (i.e. 1968-1989, 1994-1999 etc). How does that sound? We should only add personal life stuff in the music career section if there is evidence her music changed due to changes in her personal life, in my opinion. Any other information should still be in a separate section on its own. Lasersharp 01:17, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for that. I've restructured it again and it seems much better. However, I haven't taken any personal stuff out of the section on music career. Fayenatic london 13:04, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Statements that still need to be sourced

I suggest copy+pasting them here so we can all look for them? Lasersharp 01:51, 21 November 2006 (UTC) I would like to see some evidence for the claim that she is "Widely considered the most commercially and artistically distinguished female vocalist in recent Chinese music history". Obviously this depends how you define recent, but as a Hong Kong resident, my impression would be that either Teresa Teng or Anita Mui would better fit this accolade if "recent" is taken to mean the last two or three decades. Rodparkes 03:49, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

The three sources for this statement describe her wide appeal during the last 15 years. I guess I could've reworded it to be "one of the most..." although neither Ms. Teng or Ms. Mui wrote their own music. I'd like to hear what people suggest here. Lasersharp 23:51, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
The statement really is very specific. It suggests that Faye Wong is pretty much the most popular singer above all singers in recent Chinese music with no exceptions and that this is a common belief within the industry. I think alot of Faye fans would probably agree with such a statement, but this is like saying "The Shining" is the greatest movie ever and would everyone agree? No. Faye was and still is very popular in the industry, but such a statement suggests that nobody has successfully competed with her. I'm not sure about album sales, but I'm sure when her albums released she had some sort of competition with other artists. Anyway, I think it should be changed to add "one of the most..." Jason Gervais 23:49, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Chinese characters

I didn't realize there was a Wikipedia style guide that says not to use Chinese characters if there is an article about the subject that already includes characters. Where is this style guide? That would certainly be something I should familiarize myself with...

I am a strong proponent of adding native text to article when it helps disambiguate transliteration differences. I spent most of my early wikipedian days mainly adding native text to title term of articles. On the opposite, I also dislike having unnecessary native text imbedded in the articles because it disrupts the flow of reading. I wrote more of my opinion on this matter on my user page. I am also interested in a link to the style guide if any. Kowloonese 22:16, Mar 4, 2005 (UTC)
The style guide is at Wikipedia:Manual of Style (China-related articles), and the first section "Insertion of Chinese characters" mentions the guideline. -- Curps 23:33, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I have just discovered the {{linktext}} function, and have added it around the Chinese characters in all versions of Faye's name, "tianhou" in the top section, and Decadent Sound. As a result, you can click on any of those characters to go to a page that gives its pronunciation and meaning. Do others think this is helpful, and should it be extended to other Chinese characters in the article, especially song titles? Fayenatic london 00:43, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

New picture?

How about a new picture on the article? The currently one displays her as ugly, and that's something she's not. C'mon, just look at it. Please find a new picture. I know it's hard with all that copyright mambo-jambo, but this one scares people away. --Count Zar 12:35, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

agree, a constant rotation would be nice. the current image is for shock value I guess :) Lasersharp 07:58, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
I actually added the previous photo, and I saw nothing wrong with it. Her being "ugly" is simply only a matter of opinion and is not a good reason to change a photo over personal beliefs. However, I do agree with a rotation of the image every few months (say every three months?) just to keep the article interesting. Jason Gervais 10:23, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
I don't really like this one from 2046. You don't really get a good look of what she looks like with this one. Her back is turned to the camera, only shows half of her face... maybe appropriate for a character profile in the 2046 article, but not in Faye's article. I think we need one where you can get a good look of what she looks like. Jason Gervais 06:54, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
I agree, the problem is finding one that adheres to Wikipedia's licensing regulations.Lasersharp 15:18, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
An idea would be to find photos which her fans took during promotions or concerts and have the authors release their rights on Wikipedia for this article to use them. Lasersharp 16:04, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
How about using low-resolution images taken as screen captures from music videos? Most of the images on Madonna (entertainer) are justified this way, e.g. [5]. I could do a few of those if you think it's a good idea. Another suggestion is to use alternative images from album covers. Fayenatic london 19:59, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
those are good ideas. Lasersharp 21:08, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Are pictures within album booklets fine as well? I think we should pick something within her 1998 Scenic Tour album since I think the front cover image for that album is her most popular one, isn't it? I guess maybe it's just a matter of opinion on that one though. Jason Gervais 10:20, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
I don't know whether the new link to a Russian fan site should stay at the end of the article, but the site does have some pictures that would be ideal if we could use them! Anybody know enough Russian to ask? [6] Fayenatic london 22:36, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Not too keen on this new image either. I think the image this comes from is an important album for Faye Wong and would reflect the article well but perhaps it's just a matter of taste but I've never really liked the images of Faye for her Restless album, so again, maybe this is just reflecting my judgement. Maybe some alternate images could be posted here in the talk page and we pick what would work best? Jason Gervais 20:18, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Fair enough - it was the best that I could do in a few minutes, when Image:FayeWong2046presskit.jpg was tagged with a threat of deletion; it needs more detailed justification. The justifications used for the images in the Madonna article may help.
The reviewer left me the note below, which I found surprisingly strict. Let's ask on the wongfaye.org forum or livejournal etc for donated images. Fayenatic london (talk) 00:51, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
Image:Restless PRC cover.jpg should not be used in the infobox. Essentially, album covers can illustrate the albums and screenshots can illustrate the video; however, since they're copyrighted they shouldn't be used to illustrate Faye Wong herself. I'll put a photo request on the talk page to see if a free image can hopefully pop up. ShadowHalo 22:56, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
any luck on finding a photo that can be used? In time I'm sure someone has got to have taken a photo of Faye that they're willing to release the rights for the article. Unfortunately many of these phototakers are probably in Asia. perhaps we ought to ask in faye's asian fan sites? Lasersharp 01:18, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
I just contacted a Flickr user ("770") who apparently took several during a concert, let's see if the user agrees with a license change (the current one does not allow commercial reuse, which makes it incompatible with Wikipedia). You can see one of his pictures here. An advice: don't try to contact him for other images, as I have already seen some Flickr users who felt too much "pressure" and just "disappeared". Now, we can just wait. -- ReyBrujo 02:52, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
How about this one? It's taken by the fan and it shows a relatively recent Faye clearly. Lasersharp 06:02, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
I find it abit blurry and low-quality like. I think we also need a picture of JUST Faye Wong in it, nobody else with her, beside her, etc. Jason Gervais 18:31, 28 March 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.101.37.31 (talk • contribs).
User 770 agreed to relicense the image, allowing me to upload it to Wikimedia Commons and use it here. Yes, I know some will say that it is a 3 year old image, that it does not look as good as a promotional image, etc. However, this is a free image, compatible with our goals, and according to our Fair use criteria #1, if we need to choose between a free and a fair use image, we go for the free one. If you don't like it, well, feel free to find a better free image ;-) -- ReyBrujo 21:14, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
thanks for doing that. when we get more free photos available can you help us upload it to Commons? Lasersharp 07:10, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Sure, no problem. You can also register an account there if necessary. -- ReyBrujo 13:01, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Time for a picture change anyone? This one's a bit too red IMHO. Perhaps one with her facing forward? Lasersharp (talk) 13:09, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

As you can see, that section was tagged. We should discuss on what links should stay and which should be removed. Links which helped create the article should remain while the others should be removed. Jason Gervais 09:42, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

They should all stay, I used all of them for information on the artist. I don't understand the tag at all. Lasersharp 18:45, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, I didn't tag it. I figured they all pertained to the article and just wanted to make sure. If there is nothing else to add, then I guess we should remove the tag. Jason Gervais 20:03, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Failed GA

GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    a (fair representation): b (all significant views):
  5. It is stable.
  6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
    a (tagged and captioned): b lack of images (does not in itself exclude GA): c (non-free images have fair use rationales):
  7. Overall:
    a Pass/Fail:

I'm failing this article for GA status. Here are some things to fix before nominating again. References go immediately after the punctuation mark (Hi.[1] instead of Hi. [2]). Don't link lone years. There are huge sections of uncited text. The image in the infobox is replaceable and should be moved to an appropriate section or deleted all together. All of the copyrighted images need detailed fair use rationales. Trivia sections are bad. There doesn't appear to be any reason to need to know her eyeglass prescription; move any relevant information to the appropriate place and delete the rest. ShadowHalo 22:23, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ foo
  2. ^ bar

Talkpage Cleanup?

Maybe we should consider cleaning up the talkpage alittle bit? Not sure how cleaning up talk pages work out, but I guess they are archived or something? I just think this page is getting alittle crowded. Jason Gervais 20:20, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Good idea. Easily done - just add /Archive_01 (or whatever) at the end of the URL to create a subpage. I've moved what I judged to be completed discussions to Talk:Faye_Wong/Archive_01 and made a link to it at the top of this page. - Fayenatic london (talk) 01:05, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

What parts still need sources/references?

I'd like the community to help us list the parts of this article that still need to be sourced, in order to increase its verifibility. Lasersharp 17:28, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

  • All references to how albums were received by critics
  • album sales
  • rising profile in Asia from 1997
  • contracts e.g. EMI contract value
  • "spokesperson" for brands (should be easy)
  • direct quotation from Faye in 1997, and indirect quote re "To Love"
  • the section on Nick Tse. - Fayenatic london (talk) 20:33, 19 April 2007 (UTC)


  • "Best Actress" award at the 1994 Stockholm International Film Festival 20 April 2007 and in 2046. - The 2046 article states her roles in the film and gives sources; do we need more evidence that they were notable? - Fayenatic london (talk)
  • She is known to many Final Fantasy fans for her Final Fantasy VIII theme "Eyes On Me"
  • Proof that she is labeled a gay icon among the gay community. Done - not that it connects this to her movie roles. It only refers to Taiwan, so I've changed the article accordingly. I'll add the quotation to the archived talk page discussion on the subject. - Fayenatic london (talk) 20:28, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Adopting her mother's maiden name because the Wang family was persecuted during the Cultural Revolution (her grandfather was a Republic of China congressman when it governed the mainland).
  • Faye has named the Scottish post-punk group Cocteau Twins among her favourite bands  20 April 2007

There is more but I have to head out. Jason Gervais 10:08, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I know this is old, but ... in China, women don't have "maiden names". Women don't change their names when they get married. And the child usually but not always takes the father's family name but even this is not universal. Sometimes one partner is famous and the other not, sometimes the dad of the mother says, "You can marry but we are the last Tongs, so any child has to have our family name", sometimes who knows. But there is no universal rule and no stigma attached to a family's choice. Making this into a Communist Party-baiting exercise is irrational and NPOV. Since there are many Wangs in China (in the millions, it is one of the most common surnames), changing the family name to "escape persecution" seems far-fetched to me. Real far-fetched. In fact, more like some "we hate them commnists" John Birch-inspired fantasy. Unless her mom personally said that on tape, it's most likely hogswash.210.22.142.82 (talk) 02:50, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

I think this quote needs a source: "I’m lazy, never jogged for more than 2 days. I smoke, an act of damaging health. I’m straightforward, constantly offending others. I'm hot-tempered, not able to control my emotions. I’m impatient, especially with things not interesting to me. I feel confident and inferior, very contradictory. Facing my fans, I feel embarrassed. I’m not motivated, always thinking of vacations. I’m not obedient, even my parents don't know what to do with me. I’m not an idol, please don’t worship me." Banedon (talk) 05:38, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

It was also quoted on the fan site wongfaye.org but I have not found out where it was from, so I agree with your removing it today. – Fayenatic London 22:39, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

How did she learn Cantonese?

It's not made clear in the article how someone from Beijing could learn to speak Cantonese well enough to sing in it. It's not an easy language for non-Cantonese people to learn. Is it because her parents are Cantonese speakers? Badagnani 04:46, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

No, just from years of living in HK. Timmyshin (talk) 17:36, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Fansites

I thought for certain that there was some guideline or policy specifically against including fansites in the "External links" section, but I couldn't find any. I left a note at the Talk page of Wikipedia:External links to ask if anybody can point to any relevant guideline or policy, or if fansites are actually allowed.[7] Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 15:41, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I've replied there - more contributions welcome. The discussion there is instructive. - Fayenatic (talk) 19:34, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Alot of these sites were used as references to the content in this article. As to what was used for what I don't know, but I'm pretty sure someone posted those particular details before somewhere. Jason Gervais 21:17, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Alas, I fear not. Anyway, here's an updated link to the archived discussion on the External Links talk page. - Fayenatic (talk) 20:10, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

PETA

A reference for PETA and vegetarianism here for those who need it. Benjwong (talk) 22:25, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Time for a New Picture?

I think it's time to call for a wiki photo of Faye...lets see if we can get a more recent one on wiki commons. I think fan photos of her recent trip to Tibet would work really well. The current one is a few years dated and in my opinion, it does not nearly do her justice. Lasersharp (talk) 18:47, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

As long as they're CC-BY or CC-BY-SA, I think they should be fine. Pandacomics (talk) 00:15, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

POV

The personal life section, however sourced, is massive POV with words like "bitter divorce" etc. Absolutely non-Wikipedia standard. 小龙 (Timish) # xiǎolóng de xìnxiāng 20:05, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

that part of the Article is that much non wikipedia standard that it would require complete rewrite from scratch :-) --Dwarfpower (talk) 20:20, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Revision

I plan on revising the article in the next few weeks. There are some good sections but most of it is bad and all over the place. Some major goals:

  • References, sources etc.
  • Deleting unnecessary details. The article is too long.
  • Neutrality.
  • Many of the specifics (such as which songs in XXX album she liked) can be either deleted or moved to the page of the album.
  • Possibly combining the "love life" section with the main "career and life" section, seeing that's how it's done for many artists.
  • Reducing the "personal" section, expanding and reorganizing the "influences" section.

Yinweiaiqing (talk) 14:30, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Collaboration with Cocteau Twins

I think it would be worth mentioning more about the collaboration with the band Cocteau Twins, particularly the fact that the singer, Liz Fraser, does not sing in a particular language (or sings in a mixture of English and glossolalia). This meant the 'creation' of original lyrics by Faye and her writers/composers to mimic the sounds of Liz's vocals. It's a fascinating experiment in linguistics that deserves more attention. Didier Olmstead (talk) 15:28, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

File:Faye Wong performing in Malaysia..jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Which WP:ENGVAR is this page supposed to be written in?

Right now the page has a lot of "-our"s and "-ise"s, but the spelling "symbolizes" appears once, and it was inconsistent even back in New Year's 2006. One year earlier the spelling "flavor" was in the article with not "-our"s or "-ise"s, but is there a rationale for changing everything to British spelling? English isn't the first language of the majority of Hong Kongers, as far as I understand, and even if all Hong Kong articles used British spelling, this particular article is more dubious since she was born and raised in Mainland China. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 06:36, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Faye Wong/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

i have nominated this article for Good Article status. i originally rated it 'b' (for WPBiography) because it is frowned upon to rate articles higher than that without a more detailed review, and because the other ratings had it as 'b'. it seems to meet all of the criteria for GA status, and any additional improvements will likely need to be suggested by those more familiar with the topic (i am merely looking for technical criteria such as formatting, citations, infoboxes, etc.) --Sapphic 18:05, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 18:05, 14 March 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 15:00, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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