Talk:Fascism in North America

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Fascism is a right-wing ideology.

The lede of the article says that "Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement". This statement is the result of a very long process of discussion and debate and has strong consensus acceptance within the Wikipedia community, based on the consensus of political scientists, historians, and other reliable sources that Fascism is a (far) "right-wing" ideology and not a "left-wing" one. This has been discussed numerous times. Please see this FAQ and read the talk page archives.

Please do not request that "right-wing" be changed to "left-wing"; your request will be denied, and you may be blocked from editing if you persist in doing so.

This section is here to provide answers to some questions that have been previously discussed on this talk page.

Note: This FAQ is only here to let people know that these points have previously been addressed, not to prevent any further discussion of these issues.

Q1: Why doesn't Wikipedia say that antifa is "far left"?

A1: You can post a message on this page about your concern but please be aware that this issue has been discussed many times before. You are encouraged to review Wikipedia's policy on consensus-building and the following discussions before posting on this subject:

Q2: Why doesn't Wikipedia say that antifa has been designated as a terrorist organisation by the United States?

A2: There is no legal statute in the United States which allows designating a domestic group as a terrorist organization. Only foreign groups may have that status. Statements from former United States Attorney General William P. Barr and former U.S. President Donald Trump do not equal a legal designation.

Q3: Why is 'antifa' spelled in lowercase?

A3: Many editors have argued that antifa is a common noun, based on available sources. There was no consensus to switch to 'Antifa' in this RfC.

Donald Trump

What's the problem friends? I produced 25 references where Trump has been recently called a fascist. Do you really need me to add the other 975? This is notable enough to deserve being on this page.

What's the problem? This is exhaustively well-referenced. You'd have to be blind to not have noticed Trump has been called a fascist or compared to 1930's facists quite often. I can add the other 975 references if you insist.

– It would be good to know what the problem is with the edits, that they've been reverted. I have just restored the text with some changes which I hope make it more neutral. I also added text about Trump's pledge of allegiance and related criticisms. Ewindisch (talk) 16:44, 9 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'm a volunteer at the Third Opinion project; I've removed (i.e. declined) your request because 3O, like all moderated content dispute resolution processes at Wikipedia, requires thorough discussion before seeking assistance. If the other party will not discuss consider the advice given at DISCFAIL, but I have to say that it will probably not work very well with IP editors and you may have to seek page semi-protection to allow only logged-in editors to edit. However, having said that, I will say that I agree with the IP editors that the material is not appropriate, not because of sourcing or general neutrality (not that I've examined either of those carefully in your edit), but because all your paragraph does is, in effect, give a long, extended example of the general statement in the preceding paragraph which already has an example. As such, the problem is that it puts too much emphasis on the topic of Trump's alleged fascism for this article causing it to violate the undue weight policy. If it's not already been covered there (and I don't know if it has or has not), then it might be appropriate in an article about Trump himself or about his campaign, but it doesn't belong here. Finally, as an aside, new discussion topics go at the bottom of the talk page, not the top; had this been a page with a good bit of discussion already on it, experienced editors might not have ever seen this section because they automatically go to the bottom of the page. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 16:35, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

" Fascist movements in North America never realized power...." Now that this statement is no longer true, it should be modified. Desertphile (talk) 22:53, 20 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Only if you can produce non-opinion reliable sources that say that Trump is a fascist, or that his administration is. and even then, question of WP:UNDUE WEIGHT would have to be considered: i.e. one or two sources saying so would not necessarily be sufficient to include it in the article, given WP"FRINGE]] and WP:BLP. Beyond My Ken (talk)

Please re add the Trump stuff, I came here specifically for Trump and was very disappointed when there wasnt any. Fishbowl.16 (talk) 00:44, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So Now that we are post possibility of a coup and the "good genetics" comment, does that warrant trump on here? Like I understand people are scared of the word fascism but do we really need it to be full 1940s germany for it to be called what it is? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.104.134.142 (talk) 05:37, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I just want to note that I agree with this reversion yesterday but due to BLPREMOVE, not for the reason for the reversion stated in the edit comments. The problem with the removed edit is the lack of adequate sources. The first source listed is an opinion piece, which is not a reliable source to prove a fact, and the latter two are trying to prove Trump a fascist by his actions, which is prohibited original research. I have no problem with Trump being included here, but the inclusion must be solidly supported by reliable sources as defined by Wikipedia, which do not engage in prohibited original research, and which don't run afoul of the restrictions of the biographies of living persons policy. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 18:44, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Restored section

I restored the sourced section about Trump that was trimmed by 9500. It's validly sourced. Andre🚐 17:31, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The top photo is very outdated.

Fascism in America is no longer within the context of WW2 or any period surrounding that time. Fascism is a loose collection of authoritarian ideologies usually characterized by extreme racism and disillusionment with enlightenment values. Fascism today does not take the form of a swastika or explicit Nazi rhetoric, it is considered morally objectable in western society. Please update this page, because it is the first thing that comes up when people look up fascism in America. Good examples of modern American fascism include the Trump movement, varients of christian nationalism, and the populist right wing. 2601:5CB:C002:3B70:5C3B:EF33:FDCA:4C80 (talk) 23:22, 13 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

George-Lincoln-Rockwell.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:06, 23 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

January 6th attendee wanted to kidnap jewish leaders

just read the article, it explains a lot, it is specific example of someone who could be described as "fascist" partaking in the January 6th putsch attempt. https://theintercept.com/2023/03/13/january-6-military-intelligence-hatchet-speed/ StrongALPHA (talk) 11:54, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Creation of a page about 21st century American fascism

I was trying to look up information about recent fascist activity in the United States and discovered that there was no page solely dedicated to it. Instead there is a small section in this article about Donald Trump, and we also have the Radical right and Trumpism pages, but that's about it. There is much more to talk about than just Trump when it comes to American fascism in the 21st century, for example, Ron DeSantis, the removal of woman's rights with the abortion bans, the banning of books, gerrymandering in Republican's favour, the censoring of certain kinds of information in K-12 schools like the Don't Say Gay Bill, police brutality, etc...

I propose that a page about this be created alongside the existing pages and paragraphs. The Trumpism page and the info on this page is only specific to Trump, and while the Radical right page talks a lot about ideologies, it doesn't really discuss much about recent "fascist" actions like laws and events. If anybody has some opinions on this I would like to know. Safyrr 16:01, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Good idea, in concept, but make that current titled a redirect to whatever "native* title is settled upon: "fascism" is a reference to the fasces that also appear on U: S. decim or dime coins, at least during my (b. 1946) youth. (Yeah, 76-y.o. fart) ex-[[user:Jerzy], ex-user:JerzyA …, 7:15 AM, Wed May 10, 2023 173.220.230.26 (talk) 11:15, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A page dedicated to the extreme right in the US in the 21st century is a good idea (I’m thinking like, the Proud Boys, the 2017 Unite the Right rally, etc.). However, if you think “Ron DeSantis, the removal of woman's rights with the abortion bans, the banning of books, gerrymandering in Republican's favour, the censoring of certain kinds of information in K-12 schools like the Don't Say Gay Bill, police brutality, etc.” is fascism, then someone besides you needs to create the page, as you clearly are operating with a hysterical and polemical definition of fascism that belongs more in a New York Times comment section than on an encyclopedia striving for balance and scholarly back-up. GreenLoeb (talk) 16:21, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"A page dedicated to the extreme right in the US in the 21st century is a good idea" We already have such an article: Radical right (United States). Dimadick (talk) 21:31, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Great, then I think we are covered on that front. Certainly we do not need a page which treats everything to the right of Joe Manchin as "fascist," which is what has been proposed here. GreenLoeb (talk) 22:47, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to make it known that I am not american and have no stakes in american politics, nor do I care about its left or right sides. I imagine you think I am "hysterical" because you feel like I am taking sides and insulting your favored polticial party. You dont need to; I really don't care about them. Since on the internet we are constantly bombarded by USA news, I see electoral manipulation, police brutality, book bans and other stuff that, to my outside perspective, does not look like "healthy democracy" stuff, it reminds me of stuff that I learned about during history class. As I already stated - and if you want to go through that article to verify you can - the radical right article only talks about ideologies. It does not mention laws or events that are fascist or fascist-like. It is not suitable. Safyrr 21:42, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Respectfully I disagree that calling thinking DeSantis is fascist is hysterics. DeSantis can fairly be called a fascist. This opinion piece explains why fairly well. I do agree we need more scholarly sources before adding it, but to dismiss it out of hand isn't correct either.

https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commentary/2023/05/05/commentary-is-ron-desantis-fascist/ 73.192.235.52 (talk) 04:12, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Something that could be done in this theoretical article is listing what is considered fascism first at the top from a scholarly source. Then, talking about the people, movements, laws, events, etc, after. So, just like in this opinion piece you've presented here, it would make it easier for the reader to see that if the article is saying something is fascist or fascist-like its because it goes with the definition - like its not being included just because its a right-wing thing or something. I also agree that it would be best to source exclusively from scholars, not journalists, because the subject matter is controversial and journalists often exaggerate or say things not based in reality. Ideally, a lot of the sources would be not from the US too. Safyrr 22:13, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone help me fix the link for the National Justice Party

It´s in the list of existing far right parties and is led by Mike Enoch. StrongALPHA (talk) 14:29, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Llll5032 you´ve edited that page a fair bit maybe you can help fix the link under list of active organizations. StrongALPHA (talk) 10:08, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ron Desantis?

I think it might be a good idea to include some sort of section about the possible fascism that desantis led florida has demonstrated, especially with laws that were attempted such as trying to effectively ban the democratic party, his response to disney, his legislative attack on queer people, etc. or it could even be compiled into a section on fascism in the gop 98.23.129.207 (talk) 19:10, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If you could give some sources I'd be more than willing to add a a little bit on it (probably a subsection of a subsection) -Emily (PhoenixCaelestis) (talk) 20:52, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fascism in the US needs its own page

I feel there needs to be a "Fascism in the United States" page encompassing what is said in the articles covering Nazism in the US, Trumpism, the alt-right, etc. etc. If someone could start one in a sandbox, I'd be happy to add onto it, but I can't really make one myself as I'm working on other projects. -Emily (PhoenixCaelestis) (talk) 20:52, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Copy editing

I noticed some grammatical/cohesion issues and was going to fix those but wanted to ask if anybody disagreed, so feel free to revert any of my changes if you have better ones. Sophisticatedevening (talk) 19:17, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]