Talk:Face to Face Bulgaria

This page was proposed for deletion by Rsk6400 (talk · contribs) on 5 May 2020.

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Removal of PROD notice

I'm removing the PROD notice. WP:NRV is satisfied by the references from the BBC News, ABC News, Sofia News Agency and The Sofia Echo.

The similarity of the creator's username and the article title is of no consequence. Excluding bots, 10 different editors have edited the article since the creator last edited and the article has been virtually rewritten [1].

Sending courtesy ping to Rsk6400 --John B123 (talk) 18:59, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Notable ?

I don't think Face to Face Bulgaria is notable. The only reliable information contained in the referenced sources seems to be that Face to Face provided information to a BBC reporter in 2005 and inspired Michael Cory Davis in 2007 to create a movie.

The references in detail:

Reference 1 is no longer accessible at the Sofia Echo, but a "long abstract" is available. It says that Face to Face Bulgaria has a connection with Face to Face International, which was founded by the United Nations. Face to Face International has no article of its own. The linked website of Face to Face International makes no mention of Face to Face Bulgaria. Neither does it claim being founded by the United Nations: "About us" says, "The Face-to-Face Project (F2F) began as The Face-to-Face AIDS Project in 2003 as part of a Harvard Medical School initiative to document the AIDS pandemic in South Africa." (checked 7 May 2020). "Partners" lists a lot of partners, none of those residing in Bulgaria. And the United Nations are not mentioned among the partners.
Reference 2 is to a 2005 BBC article called "Bulgaria's disturbing baby market". It mentions a witness "who runs a non-governmental organisation called Face To Face in the capital Sofia"
Reference 3 is to a 2007 ABC article on the movie "Svetlana's Journey" in which Michael Cory Davis says that he was inspired by participating in a fundraising event of Face to Face Bulgaria.
Reference 4 says that the cooperation with Face to Face inspired Michael Cory Davis to make the movie "Svetlana's Journey" (which has no article).

The entry of "Svetlana's Journey" on https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0488900/fullcredits?ref_=ttloc_ql_1 contains a list of "Full Cast and Crew" that makes no reference to "Face to Face".

References 5 and 6 are no longer accessible.

The reference to the website of Face to Face Bulgaria is to a 2007 copy at archive.org. Rsk6400 (talk) 09:45, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Reference 1: I have added an archive url to ref. The fact that UNICEF chose to archive the article[2] as part of their "Child Trafficking Research Hub" speaks volumes. Presumably UNICEF (which is a UN body) felt the information in the article was sufficiently accurate to be included in the research hub. The content of the article is mirrored in the Crossroads Foundation's "Corporate NGO partnerships" page of Face to Face Bulgaria.[3]

References 3 & 4: The IMDb is not regarded as a reliable source. There are plenty of sources that confirm that Michael Cory Davis' film "Svetlana's Journey" was not only inspired by the work of Face to Face Bulgaria, but also that he worked closely with them.[4], [5], [6] and [7] for example. It is also included in the WorldCat's listing.[8]

Reference 5: Now rescued.[9] Mention of Face to Face Bulgaria in relation to Maria Belosava's songs.

Reference 6: Now rescued.[10] Corperate & celebrity fundraising for Face to Face Bulgaria

"The reference to the website of Face to Face Bulgaria is to a 2007 copy at archive.org" As per WP:NOTTEMPORARY, notability is not temporary, so the time the website was active is irrelevant.

I suspect "Face to Face Bulgaria" has been absorbed into the larger "Face to Face" given that the documented history only seems to be from 2002 - 2007, and that UNICEF now advertise for workers for "Face to Face" in Bulgaria as opposed to "Face to Face Bulgaria"[11], [12]. The references in the article and the links above give enough coverage from WP:RS sources to establish WP:GNG. The fact the organisation may well be defunct doesn't alter its notability, otherwise we would have to delete article such as League of Nations.--John B123 (talk) 14:50, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding WP:NOTTEMPORARY: I think it was never notable, but if it were still alive after more than a decade, it might be notable. Rsk6400 (talk) 18:10, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the sources you provided: The source (3) globalhand.org says that Face to Face Bulgaria is an "Unverified non-profit organisation". Then follows what looks like a copy of an earlier version of the WP article.

The sources you gave concerning Svetlana's journey more or less tell the same story: Davis went to Bulgaria, met people from Face to Face Bulgaria, was inspired to create the film, and maybe given information on trafficking and helped to get into contact with victims or experts. I don't think that "worked closely with F2F" is the correct expression for that. Rsk6400 (talk) 18:18, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Connection to Face to Face International

@John B123: sorry for answering late. I want to answer first regarding Face to Face International and hope to answer soon regarding the other points. The two links you provided don't show that "UNICEF now advertise for workers for 'Face to Face' in Bulgaria". If they talk of "face to face" they simply mean "personally" and think of fundraisers who personally meet the benefactors. This is clear from the second source you gave, but also becomes clear from [13] where they use the expression "face to face and door to door". As stated before, the homepage of Face to Face International given in the article makes no reference to Bulgaria and none to being founded by the UN. So either there is (or was) a different Face to Face International, or the source by Andrew Ridgway simply made an error. In my opinion, it doesn't speak volumes that UNICEF included that text in their research database, because such a database is normally intended to give an overview over press coverage of a certain topic, not to provide facts that have been thoroughly checked. Rsk6400 (talk) 14:26, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The source no. 6, CinéEqual says (introduction to the interview, in the voice of CinéEqual): "Face to Face Bulgaria, the Bulgarian Annex of the United Nations Face to Face International, an agency created to stop human trafficking and promote equal rights for women." - which is contradicting our article, since an NGO is not the same as a UN agency (I don't want to imply that a cinema web site is a reliable source for NGOs.) Rsk6400 (talk) 18:08, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]