Talk:Eva Braun/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Name

I see no reason why the first sentence of this article should use Hitler as her surname. There are plenty of other examples of articles in which the woman's birth name is given in the first sentence. Is seems particularly odd in this case given that she was married for little more than 24 hours. Jooler

• Truth be told, I'm not obsessed with the surname, I'll remove it now.

An interesting omission in this article is that we are not told why Eva Braun is of interest in the opening section. From the contents of the article, she had little training for a career, & it hard to describe her occupation other than as Hitler's mistress. Any objections to changing the first sentence to make this point obvious?)

I've tried to make the point of interest more clear.

Well, "lifelong companion" works. One could suss out the fact that they had a relationship, but making the reader to it gave the impression that we were trying to hide the fact from delicate minds.

I certainly wasn't trying to hide it, and I agreed with you about the point of interest issue as soon as I read it. About companion, the term seems to be frequently used in this sense nowadays. As an aside, I must say that in my life, I've never once heard the term mistress used in any form of real conversation about real people and their relationships... I've only run across it in books and some journalistic efforts (mostly relating to some sort of scandal). Only to be clear, in my experience, mistress in print pretty much equals whore of Babylon, the end. So I think it's a rather loaded, archaic term.

I guess the fact my parents were born before the start of the Depression is why I have some old-fashioned ideas. It was once not uncommon in some social circles to keep a woman for social & sexual company; now that women have career choices other than marriage, the cloister, prostitution, nursing or teaching, it has become rare in Europe & the US.

No, not at all. And I think we should also get rid of the word "Hitler" in her name. This is bordering on the ridiculous.

She died Eva Hitler, the cermony was legal, that was her name. I think mistress is a loaded, obsolete term. Ridiculous? Why, exactly? What is there in the article that isn't accurate, for example? Eva Braun didn't walk around Munich with a sign dangling from her neck saying, "I'm the main squeeze of a sociopathic murderer," and WP's job is to give readers the facts necessary to see it for themselves.

The name Eva Anna Paula Braun Hitler is ridiculous, but I can see it has been changed in the meantime. It may be usual in countries where English is spoken to just add your husband's name to your own, but there was no such thing in Germany in 1945. Therefore she was never legally called Braun Hitler. Today, if an unmarried woman called, say, Anna Meier married a Peter Lustig, it is up to her if in future she wants to be Anna Meier, Anna Lustig, Anna Meier-Lustig or Anna Lustig-Meier (but always with a hyphen). There was no such thing 60 years ago.

That's why we have talk pages! Thanks.

Her name legally became Eva Anna Paula Hitler when she married. When clarification of maiden name is required, the née is used. I changed it to that. Compromise people, compromise :-)

I see that the née has been reverted, which I would have done myself. I think has adequately explained why the name should be presented in its German format and since Eva Anna Paula Braun is the only form in which we can keep Braun in her name, and since it was her name for every day of her life (but one, when she might have chosen to change Braun to Hitler), I think the choice is plain. I was not following German naming convention when I added Hitler to her name the other day. I made a conscious decision to try the Anglo-Saxon style in an English language encyclopedia, I was curious to see the reaction and agreed with it when it came.

How is Eva Anna Paula Hitler not the German format? Yes, she was only married for about 24 hours, but she was still legally married, and thus became Eva...Hitler. In the book "The Last Days of Hitler" (whose authorship currently eludes me) it states that Eva signed a document (I believe her marriage certificate) as "Eva Braun", but then scratched the "Braun" and replace it with "Hitler née Braun". Seeing how close she was to Adolf Hitler, I think she would be insulted if she was referred to as Eva Braun. Yes, everyone refers to her as Eva Braun, but she died Eva Hitler.

I'd forgotten she'd written it herself. Given that, I'd be willing to change the format of her name in the first line but... I don't know if others watching this page would be willing to give her the surname to avoid any insult. I mean, it's not like we're talking about Julie Andrews here, is it? Yeah, I think hers is a sad story and all that, maybe even a metaphor for lots of German women who got pulled into the traps of Nazi sexism but the thing is, she must have known about all the killing, I mean, the millions one way or another and she stayed with him, living rather well by it for a time while hundreds of millions suffered and tens of millions died. I can imagine how that happened and think of her as a human being but I don't know how it happened and her diaries don't get to the pith of whether she felt trapped or doomed to stay or cope with him regardless. Anyway I've no problem with Hitler née Braun, it's documented (which would conform to <KF>'s reasoning, I think), but neither will I mind if others want to skip it. Lets wait for comments, whatever the consensus is will work for me.

For the record, I don't see her story as tragic or anything. I'm sure being the Führer's mistress has its perks. My interest is in historical accuracy, specifically how the people in question lived. I'm pretty sure if she hadn't died less than 24 hours after her wedding, she would be remembered as Eva Hitler (assuming of course she and Adolf Hitler had actually publicized their marriage). I still think Hitler née Braun is the best compromise, since it includes the name most people know her by (Braun) while stating the fact that she was Hitler's wife.

This link is to a PDF that includes a copy of Hitler's Marriage Certificate. Page 4 includes the couple's signatures, including that of Eva Hitler geb Braun.

Quote from 'Inside the Third Reich'

Albert Speer never wrote that he had intercourse with Eva Braun in his autobiography. I am going to remove that from the cited passage and I would suggest that those with more convenient access to the book than me check the rest of the passage to see if it is correct.

Albert Speer, had sex with Eva Braun. (LoL) No wonder you deleted that section.

01:50, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Simplify, simplify 

longtime companion (and ultimately, wife for a night and a day) of Adolf Hitler.

Is clumsy and ugly. Can we not just call her the "wife of Adolf Hitler"?

Since she spent only about 24 hours as his wife during 12 years as his friend, most historians avoid referring to her simply as his wife. I don't think the above is so ugly or clumsy btw (although Eva likely did). Wyss 10:53, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Article name

Shouldn't this be renamed Eva Hitler? I mean since they did get married shortly after their deaths, wouldn't that mean that her name changed to Eva Hitler?

In a word, no. This has been thoroughly discussed above but the pith of it is that, given German naming conventions of 60 years combined with her being married to AH for only a day, the historical consensus seems to have settled on calling her Eva Braun. Eva Braun Hitler would always be incorect, Eva Hitler would be technically ok but again, since she lived only the briefest fraction of her life with that name it's not considered reasonable for use in a scholarly context. Wyss 01:28, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

• Since almost this entire talk page involves the issue of her name, I have added a section about it at the end of the article. Wyss 02:40, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

The statement that "but Machtan's hyppothesis has not found wide acceptance among historians." is a personal opinion that violates Wikipedia:No original research. Karl Schalike 17:46, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

No, my personal opinion is that Machtan's book is speculative and inventive and over all quite rubbish. Since most historian share variations of that view, the result is the fact of the book not having found wide acceptance. Please read the NOR policy again. Str1977 18:01, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

No need to even mention it. Lots of codswallop has been published about AH (wontedly for the purpose of selling books to the gullible). Unverifiable, unsupported assertions are not acceptable citations in Wikipedia. Wyss 19:06, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

First, the complete Ludecke and Professor Lothar Machtan reference must be included in accordance with Wikipedia policy. And in fact the book received wide acceptance as seen by the references & external links at The Hidden Hitler, and was made into an American film by HBO by prominent and respected members of the gay community. Regardless of your broad, sweeping "personal opinion", which is not acceptable at Wikipedia, Professor Machtan is a highly qualified Academic who is most certainly an acceptable source for Wikipedia. If you can name a schoilar and provide the source for their comment and their rationale as to why they disagree with Dr. Machtan, please insert it. Karl Schalike 19:29, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

"Mistress" revisited

Anthony Beevor used the word mistres for Eva Braun in his book about the fall of Berlin. Braun may not formally comply with the definition of mistress (the other woman of a married man) but the degree of secrecy was similar. So I think that the word mistress may be appropriate. Andries 19:31, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

The term mistress is the wonted one and has been used by some writers but is inaccurate. There is also a PoV temptation involved in using it, demonstrated by journalists all the way back to 1945. Wyss 19:35, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

mistress

noun 1. an adulterous woman; a woman who has an ongoing extramarital sexual relationship with a man 2. a woman schoolteacher (especially one regarded as strict) 3. a woman master who directs the work of others

My reverts

Karl Schalike is attempting to insert wholly unsupported "tabloid" type material into Adolf Hitler, Eva Braun, August Kubizek and Rudolf Hess. This includes categorizing AH as homosexual. The sources he cites are not based on verifiable documentation and are not recognized by historians. In one or two cases I have reverted this material as straight vandalism - disinformation.

I am adhering to my scholastic principles and believe I am editing within WP written policy. Some admins will agree with me but others may not. A request on my talk page (User_talk:Wyss) from an admin will be sufficient to stop me from reverting this material as vandalism. I will respect any such request and if it is received, following WP policy I will then take this issue to the RfC level instead. Thanks. Wyss 20:13, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

It is not vandalism, but we should at least write that his book is controversial. Andries 20:31, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

The book is not controvrsial, the book is dismissed altogether by serious historians. Even mentioning this sort of material lends it a credibility and currency which it would not be given in any scholarly source. Adolf Hitler's sexuality is the only possible place where any of this could be placed using responsible sourcing methodologies and IMHO, WP policy. Wyss 20:35, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Call it anything you want, but a University of Bremen professor and qualified historian is a credible source. And, whether or not you agree is immaterial. See: Wikipedia:Verifiability#Verifiability, not truth that says:

"Articles should contain only material that has been published by reliable sources, regardless of whether individual editors view that material as true or false" Karl Schalike 17:21, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

That's not a credible source, nor are the assertions it contains verfiable. You have misinterpreted WP sourcing policy. Wyss 19:01, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Str1977 - properly referenced facts on a very relevant subject of the nature of Braun and Hitler's relationship is not "POV." - Karl Schalike 18:10, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Str1977 - YOUR EDIT: 18:23, 6 March 2006 Str1977 (differing theories notwithstanding, the relationship was most likely sexual)

This is your personal opinion and goes against the Wikipedia:No original research policy. I remind you what Wikipedia: Administrator Jtdirl said at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive68 concering references to homosexuality or other such issues:

• Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive68

The claim is clearly sourced from published books with named authors and so belongs in the article. All it needs is more NPOV phraseology. FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 00:45, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

And Wikipedia: Administrator Jtdirl also said on this [[1]] article:

• I have to say as an academic I find Keith's stance mindboggling. The claims are from named sources in credible publications. There is more than enough claims to warrant inclusion. If this was an academic publication, the above quotes and references would make reporting of the claim automatic. Indeed failure to mention something with so many sources would be be looked at as either incompetent research or agenda-motivated censorship. FearÉIREANN\^(caint)

23:29, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Please do not reverse this important and well documented information from a qualified University professor and historian that is supported by other reliable sources. Karl Schalike 20:01, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Karl, the statment that the Hitler-Eva relationship was most likely platonic is a POV presented in factual language, hence my revert. This time I have only removed this contentious sentence but I still can't see why other editors should be burdenend with ploughing through your dirt to find the particles of gold that might be included as well. Please, learn how to write concisely and in NPOV language. Str1977 ^{(smile back)} 20:19, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

And, Karl, be sure that Jtdirl will get to know about your misuse of his name. Str1977 ^{(smile back)} 20:25, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Question about this sentence

"The German people were not entirely unaware of Eva Braun and her relationship with Hitler until after the war."

Maybe it's just me, but I find it a bit confusing. This is mean the German public were unaware or aware of her relationship with Adolf Hitler until after WWII? XXX

The words say that German knew something, but that isn't true. The "not" is either a typo or an insertion. (self-professed) Str1977 ^{(smile back)} 20:05, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

I think that this should be reworded. This sentence seems to be saying that the German people were fully aware of the relationship during the war, but were only slightly aware of it after the war. Mass amnesia? --MC 10:54, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Must have been stealth vandalism. Gwen Gale 18:42, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Cosmetics Question

"Hitler is known to have been opposed to women wearing cosmetics (in part because they were made from animal by-products) and sometimes brought the subject up at mealtime. Linge (who was his valet) said Hitler once laughed at traces of Braun's lipstick on a napkin and to tease her, joked, "Soon we will have replacement lipstick made from dead bodies of soldiers.""

Can someone please explain the logic of the above passage from this article, at least in regards to the sentence that states Hitler was in part oppossed to cosmetics because they were made of animal by-products? Was Hitler a vegetarian or vegan, and thus against animal by-products for moral reasons? Or was it because he viewed animals as inferior and thus inferior for use in cosmetics? This seems much more plausible, especially given the last sentence of this passage, however, it doesn't make it any more logical. Why would he be oppossed to the cosmetics made of animal by-products because he saw animals as inferior, but he clearly wasn't oppossed to cosmetics (at the very least, soap) being made from human by-products, specifically from humans that he deemed to be inferior? I'm not questioning the accuracy of this passage, it just doesn't make any sense to me. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.14.107.13 (talk • contribs) .

• I have read that Hitler was an avid dog-lover, so I doubt it's much of a stretch that he had a fondness for animals in general. Certainly one of the man's most interesting complexities; the fact that he could care so much about dogs, but so little about other human beings. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.61.21.98 (talk • contribs) .

I don't have a source for this, but my understanding is that Hitler was a vegitarian, very pro-animal rights, and very environmental. I belive he actually conducted a successful reforestation program before the war. — Chris ( t c ) — 08:53, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

For the last decade or so of his life AH was a vegetarian by the standards of his time. This causes fits for some modern advocates of vegetarianism, who try to "disprove" it without end. National socialism in general deprecated cosmetics on women, AH expressed further objections to the animal byproducts some contained. In private, he made unpleasant jokes about it. Gwen Gale 03:20, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

According to QI's book of general ignorance Hitler was never a vegetarian but actually loved meat, he didnt eat a lot of it though as he suffered from flatulence and his doctor told him (incorrectly) that being a vegetarian would cure this. He was however an animal lover but contrary to popular belief he was never a vegetarian. John —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.90.52.46 (talk) 01:57, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Author Robert Payne, in his biography of Hitler, The Life and Death of Adolph Hitler (Praeger, 1973) theorizes that the image of Hitler as a vegetarian ascetic was deliberately fostered by Joseph Goebbels: "Hitler's asceticism played an important part in the image he projected over Germany. According to the widely believed legend he neither smoked nor drank, nor did he eat meat or have anything to do with women. Only the first was true. He drank beer and diluted wine frequently, had a special fondness for Bavarian sausages and kept a mistress....His asceticism was a fiction invented by Goebbels to emphasize his total dedication, his self control, the distance that separated him from other men...."

In light of the above, as well as the apparent lack of source for his reasoning in opposing cosmetics because they contained animal products, I suggest that the portion "in part because they contained animal products and he was a vegetarian" be stricken, and reinstated when a source is found. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.142.205.6 (talk) 14:05, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Brother In Law

"Also in 1944, Eva Braun's sister Gretl married a member of Hitler's entourage, Hermann Fegelein, who served as Heinrich Himmler's liaison. [...] When Fegelein was caught in the closing days of the war trying to escape to Sweden with another woman, Hitler personally ordered his execution and Braun is said to have deliberately refrained from interceding on her brother-in-law's behalf."

The last sentence has an ... implication, insinuation, or the like that she should have interceded for a man who had betrayed her sister (and country). I don't see her having any obligation like that. Hga 06:37, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

That seems to be a factual error, anyway. Reading Joachim Fest's work about the events in Histler's bunker, he states that Braun most likely plead for the life of her brother-in-law, and there was speculation that she was not adverse to his advances on her, as well, which makes is seem unlikely that she would have refused to defend him. LuxPerpetua 14:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Rochus Misch, Hitler's bodyguard and telephone operator, and the only known surviving member of Hitler's "household" in the bunker, has stated in an interview that Hitler did not order Fegelein's execution, but only demoted him. Minsch claims to know who really shot Fegelein, but will not say who it was. Please see the Wikipedia article on Misch. RogerInPDX (talk) 03:22, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Just because he stated that, does not make it true. Historians and other witnesses have also stated opinions on the matter in disagreement to Misch. Kierzek (talk) 12:20, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Picture

Isn't there some sort of photo/portrait of Eva to display on the page top? That sketch isn't really that good, and those photos - while quite well showing what she looked like from both the left and the right - isn't really as good as a proper frontal photo.

I agree, someone must have a better image --Snozzbert12 02:54, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

AH himself did that sketch and yeah, while his landscapes and buildings are ok, his drawings of people strike some as a bit... off (the fine arts academy in Vienna did suggest he get into architectural drawing). So WP has been going through a purge of images lately and it's hard to find clearly free images of EB. Gwen Gale 03:14, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Only to wrap up this thread, I now believe I was thoroughly mistaken AH had drawn that sketch (maybe I was less skeptical than wonted because he did draw at least one of Geli Raubal). Gwen Gale 13:11, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

gift-giving Eva

I've moved the following text here for discussion:

Eva became struck with a streak of generosity in these twilight hours of the Third Reich and began giving away her fur coats, clothes, jewelry and some other belongings to the nurses in the bunker. She sent hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of jewelry, which she had received as gifts over the years, to her sister and mother, with a note saying that Germany would be destroyed and that they would need something to live off of. She also wrote several altruistic and patriotic letters saying she was a martyr for the Third Reich and was willingly giving up her life for the Fatherland. These letters were to be delivered to Admiral Donitz, soon to be President Donitz, with Hitler's will, but they were destroyed by the air courier out of disgust and distaste for Eva's unmeritied self-bestowed honors.

Aside from the garbled syntax and so on, this takes some significant details way too far for the article without a strong citation. If a reliable cite shows up to support these assertions, then with a re-write I think it could go back in. Gwen Gale 20:29, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

The sketch is not by Hitler

File:Evabrown-by-Hitler.jpg

Sketch of Eva Braun

From the image page: Hitler did not draw or paint after 1918, this drawing is a forgery by Konrad Kujau. Also he never signed his full name he used "AH" or "A Hitler" and he never wrote mottos and greetings on his work. Kujau was the author of the "Hitler Diaries" and that was built from forgeries and fabricated events and information. Read "Hitler and the Power of Aesthetics" by Frederic Spotts Egil 09:06, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Although you're mistaken about AH not having drawn after 1918, altogether your comments throw enough worries onto this that I'll flip what I said: Let's see some support that the sketch was drawn by AH. Gwen Gale 08:31, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Wedding Dress

The article states: "The bride wore a black silk dress." I've seen conflicting reports. For example, I saw on the History chanel & a few websites that she wore a blue-silk dress. Can the primary source of the dress color info be sited, please? It's not that I don't trust Wikipedia or the History chanel, but before I can use that info, I need to verify the primary source docs. Can anyone help me out here? [P.S. "black silk" should be hypenated] J Simpson 23:40, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Some accounts do say dark blue, sounds like some witnesses saw black, others blue (bunker lighting, stress and so on could easily explain the varying accounts). It wouldn't be hyphenated though. Gwen Gale 07:59, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Her Sister Gretl

hey did you know after Hermann fegelien married her. she had a daughter named after her aunt Eva in the summer of 1945. In the 70s she comited suicide. I think she was married with child(ren) I foud out in 2006. ~*~WildKat007~*~ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.209.49.142 (talk) 13:53, 29 April 2007 (UTC).

Erm, that's been in the article for a long time (though this Eva was born sometime after 1945 and nobody knows what happened to the baby Gretl was pregnant with that spring, nor does the article mention niece Eva's suicide in 1975, which I for one think isn't too encyclopedic). Gwen Gale 08:04, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

I've looked into this a bit more and have added a parenthetical about Eva Barbara Fegelein. Gwen Gale 22:16, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Home-movies

Did she really do her own darkroom processing for her home-movies? A TV documentary on Third Reich color movies said she shot on 16mm Kodachrome as long as it was available in Germany, then (1942? 1943?) she changed to Agfachrome. While a well-equipped amateur might process Agfachrome, you need a whole factory with huge machinery to process movie Kodachrome. --TlatoSMD (talk) 02:08, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

She did her own darkroom work for black and white stills. Kodachrome was never a DIY thing (for starters, I've heard one could blow oneself up and yes it's my understanding too, processing kc with any efficiency took building-sized gear). I'd say it's highly unlikely she ever DIY'd any Agfachrome movie film either. I've clarified the text. Gwen Gale (talk) 02:29, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Unsourced edit

This edit added information about her father and childhood address. I think these would be helpful to have in the article if reliable sources can be found for them. Gwen Gale (talk) 06:56, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

pronunciation

Just wondering whether it is notable that her name seems to be pronounced in english as if it were spelled "brawn" whereas the german pronunciation is closer to the word "brown".--66.102.196.19 (talk) 05:16, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, German speakers pronounce this name kinda like the English word brown. In English speech however, it is most often pronounced with English phonetics following the spelling, more or less like brawn. I've glarked this might be because she was unknown in England and the US until the weeks following her death, whereafter her name was widely and fairly quickly repeated mostly through written English language reports and the mispronunciation stuck. Gwen Gale (talk) 05:23, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Constantly with Hitler

The article quotes people saying that Eva Braun was almost always by Hitler's side starting in 1936. I just want to point out this quote from Heinz Guderian from his book Panzer Leader, pp. 441-442:

I must now turn to Hitler's personal characteristics as they impressed me. What sort of a man was he? He was a vegetarian, a teetotaler and a non-smoker. These were, taken independently, very admirable qualities which derived from his personal convictions and from his ascetic way of life. But, connected with this, was his isolation as a human being. He had no real friend. His oldest Party comrades were, it is true, disciples, but they could hardly be described as friends. So far as I could see there was nobody who was really close to him. There was nobody in whom he would really confide his depeest feelings. There was nobody with whom he could talk freely and openly. As he never found a true friend, so he was denied the ability deeply to love a woman. He remained unmarried. He had no children. Everything on this earth that casts a glow of warmth over our life as mortals, friendship with fine men, the pure love for a wife, affection for one's own children, all this was and remained for ever unknown to him. His path through the world was a solitary one and he followed it alone, with only his gigantic plans for company. His relationship with Eva Braun may be cited as a conradiction of what I have here written. I can only say that I knew nothing of this and that so far as I am aware I never once saw Eva Braun, though for months on end I was with Hitler and his entourage almost every day. It was only when I was in prison that I first learned of that liaison. It is obvious that this woman cannot have had any influence over Hitler, and the more's the pity, for it could only have been a softening one.:: 76.212.42.62 (talk) 00:24, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

First, the article doesn't quote "people saying that Eva Braun was almost always by Hitler's side starting in 1936." Rather, it cites a post-war Sov report on the interrogations of Günsche and Linge that in 1936 "he was always accompanied by her." Even so, Guderian's account isn't startling. Most often, if Hitler was seeing anyone outside his inner circle (to which Guderian didn't belong) Braun would be banished from sight. Moreover Guderian wasn't an historian, so while Guderian's biographical writings are highly reliable as to the recollections of Heinz Guderian, any conclusions he draws as to events beyond his kith won't always be reliable. Braun's sway over Hitler is unknown and while saying this woman cannot have had any influence over Hitler isn't daft, it's the wholly speculative take of most historians, which the article also notes. Gwen Gale (talk) 00:45, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Age 33

I've removed a piece of wording that read oddly, almost as if part of her suicide method was the fact that she was 33. If this must be in the lead paragraph (as well as her birth-death dates) then can it please be found a more comfortable home than that? Just for clarification, this is the previous version: "Thirty-six hours later they committed suicide together in a sitting room of the bunker, she by biting into a capsule of cyanide at the age of 33." and all I've done is to remove "at the age of 33" from the end. Thanks DisillusionedBitterAndKnackered (talk) 15:42, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

And just now I've added it back in, but in a different place - in the sentence about their getting married. I feel that this works better. What do you think? Thanks, DisillusionedBitterAndKnackered (talk) 08:19, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Timing (it's the art of comedy)

I just noticed something a little odd about the timing given in this article's lead and that in Adolf Hitler's lead. From here:

• ... on 29 April 1945 she married Hitler during a brief civil ceremony: she was 33 and he 56. Thirty-six hours later they committed suicide together ...

but meanwhile over at Adolf Hitler, also in the first text block:

• During the final days of the war in 1945, Hitler married his long-time mistress Eva Braun. Less than 24 hours later, the two committed suicide.

What's happened to the missing >=12 hours in the life of this charming couple? I know that things may have got a little unstructured during the last few days but it does seem odd that both articles have these clear, authoritative-sounding statements but that they flatly contradict each other. Can someone who knows this stuff please have a look and see if it can be fixed? I really think it's a bit unfortunate in its present state: I'd love to fix it but I don't begin to know my way around the sources, and I bet you do! Thanks and best wishes DisillusionedBitterAndKnackered (talk) 08:28, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

They married in the very early morning hours of 29 April and killed themselves in the mid-afternoon of the 30th. I think it was about 37 hours. Gwen Gale (talk) 10:21, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Even safer to say "less than 40 hours," which I've done. The marriage was very early on the 29th, perhaps not long after midnight, going by the sourced times at Death of Adolf Hitler. Gwen Gale (talk) 10:34, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Brilliant, thank you very much for sorting that out Gwen. Cheers DisillusionedBitterAndKnackered (talk) 13:03, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Name citation

I've added a very poor quality citation to the name "Eva Hitler" for lack of time to search out the marriage documents referenced above on this talk page (the link is broken). If someone could add a proper link, it would be great. Citing her name as Eva Hitler to a BBC article that simply refers to her once as this and doesn't even attribute it to the secretary they are interviewing is just as bad. --Doug.^{(talk • contribs)} 13:34, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Please see the top thread on this page. It's true the inline citations in the article for this are woeful, but the married name is wholly verifiable. Gwen Gale (talk) 13:41, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

I did, it isn't helpful, the link to the pdf is dead, I'm not arguing that the name isn't verifiable and I really don't care how the article is named, I'm simply saying would someone please find it and link to it to improve on the inline I added. The inline that was there before, which I left, is not helpful.--Doug.^{(talk • contribs)} 08:17, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

I also question this. It's certainly the case that she married, and married a man with the surname Hitler. But does that automatically mean she became Eva Hitler? Because that’s the only justification we could have here. In the short span of her married life, did she ever once refer to herself as Eva Hitler or Frau Hitler, or did anyone else ever do so? We might suppose that, given time, she would have used that name – but she never got the opportunity, and we’ll never know what she might have done. We cannot impose our own cultural paradigms on her and make her Eva Hitler without her imprimatur. The discussion at the top goes back to 2005-2006 and is next to useless for a contemporary discussion of this issue. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 02:25, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

I added a more accurate citation as to the history of the marriage and death of Hitler and Eva. They were married, it is true, for less than two days but her name officially changed through the marriage which took place in the Führerbunker (after 12:00 on 29 April). see: Kershaw (2008) "Hitler", p. 948. "Eva Braun began to write her usual name, but stopped, scratched out the 'B' and corrected the entry to 'Eva Hitler' " (on the marriage certificate). see: Beevor (2002) "Berlin: The Downfall 1945", p. 343. It goes on to state that they had, "...a wedding breakfast with champagne for the new Frau Hitler, as she now insisted on being called". see: Beevor (2002) "Berlin: The Downfall 1945", p. 343. I can give you more cites but I hope the above by these noted historians is enough for your query. Cheers, Kierzek (talk) 03:11, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for that. You've answered my question comprehensively. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 08:59, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Renate Muller

There needs to be a citation to any reference to Hitler "seeing" (as "in carrying on with" or escorting) Renate Muller. This has been repudiated in all articles I have read. She refused to work in films that "promoted Nazi ideals". She was also pressured and refused to leave her Jewish lover. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.253.80.119 (talk) 21:00, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Guptaaks007, 26 July 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} 1st paragraph--"Hitler's disapproval, such as smoking, wearing makeup and 'nude' sunbathing" Please change the word "nude" to "naked" since the word 'nude' seems to be a derogatory word considering the dignity of a woman. Thanks.

Guptaaks007 (talk) 20:10, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Not done: Please see WP:NOTCENSORED. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:25, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from ThLundmark, 21 March 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} After the sentence "There was gossip among the Führerbunker staff that she was carrying Hitler's child, but there is no evidence she was ever pregnant." Add "Indeed, Eva Braun is reported to have suffered from Mayer-Rokitansky syndrome (MRKH) which prevented her from ever becoming pregnant. Source: Thomas Lundmark, The Untold Story of Eva Braun: Her Life beyond Hitler p 50 (2011).

ThLundmark (talk) 21:30, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Done — Bility (talk) 23:19, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Fritz Braun was not Catholic

I have read in every book I own about Eva, as well as seen on two television specials, that he was a non-practicing Protestant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ladycplum (talk • contribs) 14:27, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

unconstructive rumor best kept to an internet forum not Wikipedia. Why would she otherwise attend the Catholic schools?69.29.212.128 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 08:00, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

just because she was at a catholic school does not mean she was a catholic - those are often open for anybody (non catholic would face some conversion pressure, of course)91.89.242.173 (talk) 11:54, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Her Surname

Meaning color Brown, a synonym of the Nazis. Coincidence or fake propaganda? You guess it... --91.115.54.120 (talk) 08:01, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

It's a common name and brown is a very common uniform colour. Any link between her name and the colour of SA uniforms is most likely happenstance, but either way, any claims about this here on the talk page or in the article would need to be heedfully sourced (WP:V). Gwen Gale (talk) 21:01, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

New Picture

I think we should upload a new photo of Eva showing her up close. I think we should move the picture of her and Hitler more down and have a better picture showing her face a little more. --Frankonno (talk) 17:55, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

I agree, if the photo meets the Wikipedia requirements as to free use of photos. The color photo you attempted to put up recently of Eva (as an adult) was a great photo I don't recall having seen before. Whatever photo you suggest of Eva (as an adult) can be considered, if it can be cleared for use on Wikipedia. Kierzek (talk) 18:09, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from , 28 October 2011

Under Further Reading please add: Lundmark, Thomas (2011). The Untold Story of Eva Braun: Her Life beyond Hitler. CreateSpace. ISBN 1-4536-9324-6.

ThLundmark (talk) 19:52, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

May I suggest you familiarize yourself with the policies and guidelines on conflict of interests, using Wikipedia for advertising/promotional purposes and such? Combined, and in light of your username, it would seem you wish us to link to your book in the "Further Reading" section. Best, ROBERTMFROMLI | ^TK/_CN 20:03, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Not done: Unfortunately I don't feel that adding this to the further reading section would be appropriate without discussion, and also suggest you have a read over a simple guide to conflicts of interest. You are free to discuss it here, but please gather a consensus first before using the edit protected template again. Thanks, Steven Zhang ^{The clock is ticking....} 21:25, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from , 13 November 2011 Further Reading

ADD UNDER Further Reading

• Thomas Lundmark: The Untold Story of Eva Braun: Her Life beyond Hitler. CreateSpace 2011, ISBN 978-1453693247.

ThLundmark (talk) 22:57, 13 November 2011 (UTC) ThLundmark (talk) 22:57, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

 Not done I'm declining for the same reason it was declined 2 weeks ago (right above here), clear cut COI and promotional SPAM. CTJF83 17:57, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

"Fewer than 40 hours," not "less."

It's a common grammar mistake, but a grammar mistake nonetheless. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.42.218.73 (talk) 00:19, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

This is an exception use: it is customary to use the word "less" to describe time, money, and distance. Kierzek (talk) 19:37, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, less time, less money and less distance. But fewer hours, fewer dollars and fewer miles. 107.77.230.214 (talk) 20:13, 30 April 2018 (UTC) HelenChicago

How can a common use of words be an incorrect use of words? 149.31.198.88 (talk) 17:05, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

RIP Frank "Onno" Braun

(September 5, 1935 - November 18, 2011) Frank Braun, Eva's cousin, came to America from Germany in 1955. He settled in the small city of Berlin, New Hampshire with his only aunt. He died at his home, near Berlin, surrounded by family. For those who is wondering about this website, Frank was working on a biography of Eva Braun at the time of his death and his son, Mark, will continue his work but will not publish his book. He knew Eva and Adolf very well as a boy. RIP DAD — Preceding unsigned comment added by Frankonno (talk • contribs) 21:14, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry to hear of his passing away. He and I had some interaction during his short time on Wikipedia. He added some good photos herein. Kierzek (talk) 02:22, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Mayer-Rokitansky syndrome

The article claims that, "Eva Braun may have suffered from Mayer-Rokitansky syndrome (MRKH), which prevented her from ever becoming pregnant." in the Marriage and suicide section and cites "Lundmark, Thomas (2011). The Untold Story of Eva Braun: Her Life beyond Hitler. CreateSpace. ISBN 1-4536-9324-6." as the source for the claim. Note that:

1. This is a tall claim, unsupported by any reliable source or scholarship (see eg. Google Book search)
2. The cited source is a self-published book which according to the author himself is "written like a novel" and presents a fictionalized account of Eva Braun's biography.
3. The claim was inserted in the article at the request of User:ThLundmark, who is likely to the author of the source himself.

In lights of the above (and of course WP:V, WP:FRINGE, WP:SPS, WP:COI etc), I request that the claim and the source be removed from the article till there is at least one reliable source to support it. Thanks. 50.129.92.215 (talk) 01:00, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

I will remove it pending verification. I am presently reading the new Görtemaker biography, but it is poorly indexed, so I will have to read the whole book before I can verify whether or not this source confirms it. Thank you for your interest --Dianna (talk) 04:33, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the response and general improvement of the article. Congrats on getting it to GA! Cheers. 50.129.92.215 (talk) 16:03, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. It was fun, and very satisfying work. I finally finished the Görtemaker biography last night, and there is no mention of this medical condition, so it will not be included in our article at this time. --Dianna (talk) 20:16, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Eva Braun/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: J Milburn (talk · contribs) 01:36, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Interesting subject, and a highly-viewed article. Review to come soon. J Milburn (talk) 01:36, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Images

• File:Evabraun2 large.jpg is completely unsourced, and there is no evidence of publication.Y removed
• The image page for File:Eva and Ilse Braun 1913.jpg claims that the image is owned by Getty, but that it is released under a CC license. The former claim is unsourced, the latter claim highly unlikely.Y removed
• The sourcing on File:Franziska Braun.jpg is highly unusual, but seems trustworthy. However, a cleanup of the image page would be good.Y done
• File:Bundesarchiv B 145 Bild-F051673-0059, Adolf Hitler und Eva Braun auf dem Berghof.jpg is fine. Regardless of the questionable "release" of the content, Commons is most certainly willing to accept these images at this time.

Prose

• These statements seem somewhat incongruous: "...but did not attend public events with him until mid-1944, when her sister Gretl married Hermann Fegelein, the SS liaison officer on his staff" and "The German public was wholly unaware of Braun until after her death". If she was attending public events with Hitler, the public surely had some awareness of her?
  • There were always lots of hangers-on and an entourage. They were not aware of the relationship; will fix. --Dianna (talk)
• Friedrich "Fritz" Braun is linked, but just points to this articleY fixed
• "Braun was educated at a lyceum, and then for one year at a business school in a convent" Do we know the names of these places? Is there a reason they're not identified?Y added what I could find
• "She worked for several months as a receptionist at a medical office, and at age 17, took a job as an office and lab assistant and photographer's model for Heinrich Hoffmann, the official photographer for the Nazi Party." Quite a long and clunky sentenceY The first job is not so important so I cut that.
• "of his niece, Geli Raubal, with whom he may have been intimate." How controversial is this claim? I worry about just slipping in something like this if it is widely disputed.
  • He lived with her. It is debated, but has a fairly good basis in fact, as he missed her like crazy for the rest of his life. I will edit it. --Dianna (talk)
• "Hitler saw more of Braun after the 1931 death of his niece, Geli Raubal, with whom he may have been intimate.[7][8] Raubal was found dead in Hitler's Munich apartment, shot with his pistol, an apparent suicide. He was in Nueremberg at the time of her death.[9] Braun attempted suicide in 1932 by shooting herself in the chest with her father's pistol.[10] Historians feel the attempt was not serious, but was a bid for Hitler's attention.[11][12]" Firstly, do we have more precise dates for these incidents? Secondly, the prose seems to jump from Raubal's suicide attempt to Braun's. Is the claim meant to be that Braun was attempting to imitate Raubal?
  • The events may have been related but the sources do not say so. Added more exact dates and split Braun's suicide attempt into a new paragraph. --Dianna (talk) 04:24, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
• "According to a fragment of her diary and the account of biographer Nerin Gun, Braun's second suicide attempt occurred in May 1935." How? Why?Y added more
• If Angela Reubal was Hitler's half sister, was his "niece" not actually a half-niece, or some other relation?Yhalf niece is correct
• Awkward style issue, but- "Angela Raubal (the dead Geli's mother ... saw Eva as untouchable". The use of given names jars a little, especially in the latter case.Y tweeked. Please let me know if you want it edited further, or if you have a suggested wording. --Dianna (talk)
• When did Braun start spending time at Obersalzburg?
  • The sources do not say exactly, but she was a regular fixture there by 1936.
• "She would be wearing a "dressing gown or house-coat", drinking wine, while Hitler would have tea." How about "She would wear a "dressing gown or house-coat" and drink wine; Hitler would have tea."Y
• I'm struggling to see the difference between the "Relationship with Hitler" and "Life with Hitler" sections; could you perhaps expand on the split?
  • The first one is intended as a chronology, and the second as a description of the lifestyle. I will check it over and move the material about. -- Dianna (talk) I have also re-named the second section to "Lifestyle". --Dianna (talk) 19:58, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
• "and found the lifeless bodies" Clarify whose?Y
• I'm not sure the specifications of Hitler's gun are important.
  • It was the gun Geli used to kill herself. I will say so. --Dianna (talk) 04:24, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
• I believe I am right in saying that Hitler killed his dog? Do we know what happened to Braun's? (That may sound a ridiculous thing to ask- if so, sorry)
  • I will add it if I find out. The new book by Gortemaker is really poorly indexed so I will have to read the whole thing to see if the info is included. It's not in Lambert. --Dianna (talk) 04:24, 28 December 2011 (UTC) I added Blondi's fate and will add anything further that I am able to find out. - D.
• "Her mother, Franziska, died at age 91 in January 1976, having lived out her days in an old farmhouse in Ruhpolding, Bavaria." Fate of other immediate family members?Y added what I could find.
• I'm not completely sure I see the point of the family tree. I don't mind it being there, but, seeing as her lineage does not seem important, and none of her ancestors are notable...Y removed
• I am surprised to be saying this, but is there perhaps something to be written about artistic portrayals of her? I'm certainly not meaning "In episode x of Family Guy...", but has she perhaps been portrayed in a meaningful way since her death? Any kind of legacy to speak of?
  • There was a wee pop-culture section in the version before I started. Not keen to leave this unencyclopedic stuff in the article. --Dianna (talk) 04:24, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Sources, categories etc

• No ISBN for the Junge source?Y
• Should Jewish Virtual Library be italicised in note 37?Y
• Perhaps wikilink the publishers in the references section?Y Done, and added authorlinks etc as well.
• The ISBN of the Knopp source is not dashed, the others are.Y
• Her religion is not mentioned in the article, but there is a category.Y removed
• In the infobox- surely, her secretarial work is more significant than her modelling?Y tweaked. The secretarial post with Hitler was a show-title only. She did not actually help in that regard.
• Also in the infobox- the article explicitly says that she was not a member of the Nazi Party.Y Removed

A fairly critical review, but it's an important topic; I hope you don't mind. I'll also take a look at how some other encyclopedias have presented her, and trawl through some of the talk page discussions here. I hope my thoughts so far are helpful. J Milburn (talk) 02:19, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for getting started so soon. We will deal with these issues as quickly as possible. --Dianna (talk) 04:24, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

All queries have been responded to, I think. --Dianna (talk) 05:35, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Note of style: J Milburn, would you rather go with military (24 hour time) or not as to this part which states:"...After 13:00 on the afternoon of 30 April 1945, Braun and Hitler said their farewells to staff and members of the inner circle. Later that afternoon, at approximately 3:30 pm..." Kierzek (talk) 03:58, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

I personally prefer am/pm, but I know of no policy/guideline supporting me there. Consistency is the important thing. J Milburn (talk) 21:27, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Y fixed Kierzek (talk) 02:00, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Looking through the talk page and a few other accounts of her life, I'm seeing no real problems. Looking back through the prose-

• "By 1936 the sisters had been provided with a villa in Bogenhausen.[17] By 1936" Repetition. Perhaps the sentences could be merged? Y fied.
• This perhaps me being moronic, but the lead states that they were married for "less than 40 hours" (implying 35-40), but the prose says "After midnight on 29 April, Hitler and Braun were married in a small civil ceremony ... [gunshots] at approximately 3:30 pm". This would imply they were married for only about 15 hours.
  • The wedding was on the night of 28-29 April, around midnight, and the suicide was on 30 April, around 3 in the afternoon. So they were married all of April 29 and half of April 30. I figured out why the text was not so clear, so I have amended it.

This is an excellent article, and would have real potential at FAC. I'm happy to promote once the above two issues are resolved. J Milburn (talk) 15:30, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your kind words about the article, the improvement of which involved three editors: Kierzek, Alarbus, and myself. Thanks also for taking the time to do the GA review. Cheers, --Dianna (talk) 16:54, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

I have promoted the article; great work. J Milburn (talk) 01:10, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Note that I have placed it in "historical figures: other", but have no objection to it being moved, perhaps to " political figures". J Milburn (talk) 01:15, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks again for your helpful review, which led to further improvements of the article and embiggened the wiki. Regards, --Dianna (talk) 03:31, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

LITTLE CHANGE

Would you care to inverse the Split Infinitive!! on line 25 of §entitled RELATIONSHIP WITH HITLER?

You should find this with ease; it discusses cosmetics. Pierre E.J. Poullain — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.20.76.35 (talk) 08:46, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Suicide myth

Linked sources show "it is believed they committed suicide" as there is no actual evidence. No bodies were ever found. Recent DNA testing and other evidences indicate Hitler did not commit suicide [1] and may have escaped by ratline with the other party officials towards the end of the war.69.29.212.128 (talk) 07:56, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

As I have said before, the evidence is there without the need of the so-called skull fragment. See Death of Adolf Hitler article and talk page. Kierzek (talk) 21:58, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

No bodies - no evidence. The blood on the couch was also tested and did not match Adolf. The witnesses have thus been discredited.69.29.212.128 (talk) 05:07, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

But there was dozens of surviving witnesses. Traudl Junge, and other secretaries, mid- and low ranked officers, his doctor. All have given testimonies which do not oppose each other, that is evidence, or even better. Hitler just couldn't be taken alive - nor as a dead body. It was by the way the Russians who invaded the bunker, and they found dr Goebbels & wife badly burnt - and all their children poisoned. But only a few litres of petrol had been used for the cremation of the Goebbles couple, while 200 litres were used the day before, when Adolf and Eva Hitler were burnt. In Churchill's encyclopedia about the war, there is a picture of the dead and semi-burnt body of dr Goebbels, in the end of the "1945"-book. He's recognisable. But what did drunken Russian soldiers care about blood on walls, or lack of the same !? This entire issue is just like some youngsters who actually appear to believe that "mankind couldn't possible have been on the moon with the computer technology of 1969, so the entire Apollo project was a fake" (oftenly confused with the 1977 film Capricorn One, which though was about a faked journey to March) Boeing720 (talk) 00:33, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Jewish?

Adolf Hitler's wife Eva Braun had JEWISH ancestors according to ground-breaking DNA tests

Did Adolf Hitler marry a Jewish woman? DNA tests ‘show Eva Braun associated with Ashkenazi Jews’

New findings say that Adolf Hitler’s wife Eva Braun had Jewish ancestors, according to ground-breaking DNA tests on hair from a brush found in her apartment. Should it be included on her Wiki page? --SadarMoritz (talk) 13:37, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

NO. It is only speculation and conjecture. They have not proven anything and if one carefully reads the articles, they even state as much. They say "may", "could have had"; they just "boot-strap" allegations and possibly together; however, aside from TV shows for ratings and papers sold to make money, it does not mean much. WP:fringe, at best. Kierzek (talk) 22:13, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

I'm not taking a position on this. But this article included some other facts that seem admissible here, so I added it. --Precision123 (talk) 18:33, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Oh, but those totally unimpeachable sources already reported in August 2010 that their invariably precise DNA testing revealed that Adolf Hitler was Jewish, so why is all this so controversial? Hitler-Braun wasn't even an intermarriage. It was just a typical case of a Jew marrying a Jew. I assume a rabbi presided at the wedding? They should test the DNA of whoever performed the ceremony and see. And test the rest of Germany, while they're at it. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 22:02, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Jewish Virtual Library?

I was under the impression Jewish Virtual Library should not be considered a reliable source? Jonas Vinther (talk) 00:23, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

I will get Görtemaker from the library and try to re-source that content. It's not critical material so I think we should remove it if a better source can't be found. -- Diannaa (talk) 00:34, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Quotes are (in my opinion) a more controversial subject than facts, because they are supposed to be the person's exact words, which is usually used to describe the person's personality or opinion on a particular subject of something or someone (as it is in this case). The quote itself is emotional, and indicates that she uncommonly loved and admired him. There are probably lots of sources that says so, but if we can find a reliable source that support this quote, it should defiantly be kept. Jonas Vinther (talk) 00:42, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Parts of the Görtemaker book are viewable online, and it looks like we can find a replacement quote. For instance, on page 223 when Henriette von Schirach suggests going into hiding, Schirach quotes her as saying "Do you think I would let him die alone? I will stay with him up until the last moment ..." I will pick up both Görtemaker and Lambert at the library on Monday. -- Diannaa (talk) 00:53, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Sounds good, Diannaa. Jonas Vinther (talk) 01:48, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Normal sex life?

I'm confused: The current version of the article says, "Braun and Hitler enjoyed a normal sex life". However, the source only says that Hitler and Braun had some sexual activity on the particular sofa; who or what says it was normal sexual activities? Because Braun was giggling over the picture would indicate that they had some sexual activities on the sofa, but to say it was normal is (in my opinion) a bit POV pushing or guessing. Jonas Vinther (talk) 14:14, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

The article says that Görtemaker states their sex life was normal. I will have to get the book from the library to provide you with more information. -- Diannaa (talk) 21:33, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Okay I believe you, I just thought it was based from the fact that Braun was giggling over the picture. Jonas Vinther (talk) 23:30, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

I should have put a page number from Görtemaker, and will fix it once I have the book. -- Diannaa (talk) 01:14, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

The article here is a book review and interview with the author. There she states her own opinion that the two had a normal sex life. There's details on page 168 to 171 of the book. She notes that like everything else surrounding Hitler, the question holds political overtones. For example, Hoffmann downplayed the strength of the ties between Braun and Hitler in order to downplay his own ties with the Nazi party (page 170). On page 168 she describes how Speer's description of the relationship between Braun and Hitler changed over time, as he in later life for political reasons tried to portray Hitler as cold and unfeeling so as to de-emphasize his own friendship with him. -- Diannaa (talk) 02:44, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Eva Braunn Ashkenazi Jew

Just saw a documentary "Dead Famous DNA", Episode 3, found on Netflix. The scientist on the program had access to Eva Braun's DNA through her own hairbrush that was taken by an American soldier. The DNA results on her hair showed that she had Ashkenazi Jew ancestry. Pretty interesting and ironic. See Netflix.

But Eva Hitler was burnt (cremated) together with her unfamous husband - in 200 litres of petrol. The hairbrush could well be anyone else's. There's no possible way to say that the hair on the brush was her. Only by coparing with something which doubtlessly contain her DNA can further conclutions be drawn. Advice - avoid Netflix documentaries, as they are sensational but nothing else. They need money and do what ever they can in order to keep viwers longer than six months. Boeing720 (talk) 23:52, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

It's not conclusive at all and is WP:Fringe; and this "claim" has been around for a while; speculation that we discussed and rejected on the Hitler talk page sometime ago. Kierzek (talk) 12:35, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

she was likely of ashkenazi jewish descent. That does not mean that she was in a religious way jewish. There are tons of historians who claim this. But she was like of ashkenazi jewish descent but her 6 ancestors before were not jewish they all were christians. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:908:191:5FA0:C5D6:E555:496A:968D (talk) 18:43, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

Eva Braun's last name

The article erroneously refers to her has Eva Hitler. She never changed her name; she never used that name; no one ever called her that. The entire world knows her as Eva Braun. Just because she married Adolf Hitler hours before she died, doesn't make her name Hitler. Kierzek (talk) 12:56, 6 November 2015 (UTC)RebekahWiki — Preceding unsigned comment added by RebekahWiki (talk • contribs) 02:45, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

No. The fact is when she married Hitler her legal name changed to Eva Hitler. When she signed the marriage certificate, first she started to write Eva Bruan and then crossed out the "B" of her family name and wrote Hitler, as her last name. The certificate was legal and witnessed. Kierzek (talk) 12:56, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Yes, countless of surviving witnesses from Hitlers's bunker have independently of each other confirmed that she married Adolf Hitler, and thereby died as Eva Hitler. I even think the article should be given that name, which is formally correct. Boeing720 (talk) 23:41, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

While "Eva Hitler" may technichally been her name at death, I don't think moving the page is a good idea, as our readers are expecting the page to be located at "Eva Braun". Per WP:COMMONNAME, the page needs to be at "Eva Braun". — Diannaa (talk) 23:47, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

I have to agree with you about what our readers expect. (And it's actually very rare to mention "our readers" at a talk-page. I like and share that concern.) But a search on "Eva Braun" should of cource be linked to "Eva Hitler", which I still think is what would have been written if she had a gravestone. No big deal though. Boeing720 (talk) 23:57, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Object to move, per Diannaa's reasons above. Note: Eva Hitler is a redirect to this page. Kierzek (talk) 12:35, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Hearsay

The Russian skull of remains from the "Hitler bunker" have proven gunshot to skull was a 20-40 year old woman's skull not a man (i.e. body with gunshot to skull Russian military recovered and took to Russia could not be Adolf Hitler since it was female skull). No evidence if it is remains of Eva Braun due no DNA tests to date.) So the information being promoted since 1945 is false. FBI has released files to the public on their information. It is very important Wikipedia does not promote only hearsay and what is "thought." Only actual facts should be included on web pages. Wikipedia should not be used to continue saying inaccuracies and so should stop saying she took poison and stop saying Hilter shot himself in temple when there was never evidence to support it and the claim has be disproven by doctor who given access to the body (2009). The bodies found in Germany were covered and not unwrapped for identification.. German persons told Russian soldiers it was Hitler and Ms Braun. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.108.220.3 (talk) 08:08, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

Your point as to the skull found is moot; no one claims it to be Braun's, nor at this point, Hitler's. One of Eva's bridges was found and identified. I have read the FBI files on Hitler and Braun, as can anyone. They don't claim to state what you imply. They are filled will speculation and not conclusive at all. The couple's "escaping" makes for good reading and sells books but it is not what the main-line historians state and that is what we must go by. Kierzek (talk) 14:00, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 June 2017

Eva Braun died of Breast Cancer, it is a long time hoax she died of suicide. DR. Otto Warburg proved it. Please look it up. NerdyGirlHeartbreak (talk) 00:13, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Cannolis (talk) 01:14, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Not according to WP:RS sources. Fringe sources are not used in articles. Kierzek (talk) 13:48, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

edit request

Hi, could you please add Category:Women in Nazi Germany to Eva Braun's page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:C478:5C90:7816:EBA4:C313:1A6A (talk) 00:11, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

I am pretty sure you are an IP sock of a banned user, so no, I will not be doing that. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 00:34, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

Two questions about the Infobox photograph of Eva Braun

The infobox photo of Eva Braun is a cropped image of the photo that appears in the "Lifestyle" section of the article. Technically, two identical photos should not appear in the same article, even if one of the pictures has been cropped.

Second, Eva Braun was born in 1912 and the photo is alleged to have been taken in 1942, which makes her 30 years of age in the picture. I looked at that photo over and over again, and the woman in the picture appears to be about 60 years of age. I know that some people don't look their age, but I find it very difficult to believe that the woman in the photograph is only 30 years old. The infobox could use a different and better image of Eva Braun.Anthony22 (talk) 16:52, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

There is no rule, the two photos cannot be used and it passed GA accordingly. Further one is an extract of the other. Also your conjecture as to "the woman in the picture" appearing "to be about 60 years of age" is WP:OR at best. The photo is from the Bundesarchiv archives and there is no evidence it is not Braun (Hitler). The fact the photo may not be flattering or that Eva is not a beauty queen is not relevant. Kierzek (talk) 23:59, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Image reliability questions (including with a signature)

These two images copied to Commons from here and here, both images aren't verified without given a specific reason. Perhaps, it might be considered as reliable scholarly sources alongside with cropped 1942 photograph and also without a signature. --ZmeytheDragon16 (talk) 21:58, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

I did express my concerns about the source websites https://allthatsinteresting.com/eva-braun and http://www.sjsmilitaria.com/paper-items/eva-braun-signed-paper/ in my edit summary. I don't see how a website called allthatsinteresting.com can be considered a reliable source for historic photos. The signature in File:Eva Braun signature.svg is not a match for the signature on the photo File:Eva Braun young.jpg. So we can't be sure either image is genuine. The photo File:Eva Braun walking dog.jpg is without question genuine as it is a crop of File:Bundesarchiv B 145 Bild-F051673-0059, Adolf Hitler und Eva Braun auf dem Berghof.jpg, which was supplied to us by the German government.— Diannaa (talk) 22:49, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

What about some genuine public domain stock image of Eva Braun taken from 1935, which came some sources like Getty, Associated Press, Shutterstock, and others? But what about that signature? It seems likely does not match with a signature at the bottom, so where do I upload a genuine photo of Eva Braun without a signature? --ZmeytheDragon16 (talk) 01:25, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

Most of the images at Getty, Associated Press, and Shutterstock are not public domain; they are copyright. Public domain images are actually quite rare, so we are fortunate that we received a large donation of compatibly licensed photos from the Bundesarchiv in 2008, or we would have very few images for Nazi biographies.— Diannaa (talk) 17:09, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

What about a genuine photo of Eva Braun by Heinrich Hoffmann? Because I decided to wait for expiration of copyright by 2028 by seized Alien Property. But first, I should nominate for deletion for this photograph (including her fake signature), also, which is proposed genuine signature of Eva Braun? But I found this signature with an arrows to identify what is real or fake from this link. --ZmeytheDragon16 (talk) 03:34, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Most of Hoffmann's photos still enjoy copyright protection, as only a very small number of them were seized by the Allies. Please feel free to nominate things for deletion on the Commons if you think it's appropriate.— Diannaa (talk) 00:33, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

I already nominated for this file (File:Eva Braun young.jpg) for deletion, but instead her signature on paper, are likely appropriate. --ZmeytheDragon16 (talk) 10:14, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Removal of pop culture trivia

I have removed a list of about 15 films in which Eva Braun is a character. I don't think it's encyclopedic to list every film or TV show in which she is portrayed. Her influence on the culture has been negligible. It's therefore pop culture trivia, and has no place in a serious encyclopedia article about a historical figure. Comments welcome.— Diannaa (talk) 23:32, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

I agree, specially given the fact this is a GA rated article. Kierzek (talk) 15:43, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

@Diannaa: I disagree. The reason I added the list is the following: I checked the characters portrayed in 2004 film Downfall for media appearances. Most of the articles envolved mention the film in the subsections ==See Also== or ==Film portrayals==. Following articles (among others) even state the film/TV productions in which the person is portrayed: Magda Goebbels, Gerda Christian, Hanna Reitsch, Constanze Manziarly, Fritz Tornow, Walther Hewel, Ernst-Günther Schenck, Rochus Misch. When noticing the list was missing regarding Eva Braun I added it. I fail to see why this list was removed when compared to some of the articles I mentioned. There seem to be no rules regarding film/TV portrayal listings and I can find no documentation regarding the offered arguments for removal. If the list is too long than please state the maximum number of entries allowed. Regards, Mill 1 (talk) 14:33, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

There is no minimum or maximum and there is no set rule. The situation now is that there are two people who object to listing pop culture appearances in this particular article, and therefore at present there's no consensus to include such a list in this particular article. — Diannaa (talk) 14:58, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

Hoffman or Hoffmann

Both are used on this page, i asume Hoffmann, with doubled 'nn', but, i am not a historian and dont know the correct spelling.85.149.83.125 (talk) 17:18, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Fixed. Kierzek (talk) 17:49, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

German woman

I don't think we need to mention in the lead of the article that Eva Braun was a woman. We don't do this in articles about men. It's unnecessary and a bit sexist. I have removed it for those reasons. Comments welcome. — Ninja Diannaa (Talk) 01:07, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Its clear Braun was a woman; adding the word is unnecessary. Kierzek (talk) 02:30, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

I agree that it shouldn't be included because of the sexiam argument. Part of the trouble is that she had no clearly defined occupation, so that she can't be described in the same terms as, say, Emmy Goring (... was a German actress and the second wife of.....). An alternative to the slightly bald wording '...was a German' could be something like '...was the German companion and wife of AH....'Sbishop (talk) 06:28, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

The editor DeaconShotFire, who was reverted has not thus far commented and currently consensus is against them. Instead they insist on edit warring. There has been no consensus for their original edit or the new one they have made. I suggest they discuss things here as required by WP:BRD. However, they have chosen to revert without consensus, yet again. I left a message as to same on their talk page. Kierzek (talk) 20:44, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

I would be agreeable to your suggestion, Sbishop as to wording: "... was the German companion and wife of AH." Kierzek (talk) 20:46, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

I agree with that wording too. Or possibly "... was the German companion and later the wife of AH." — Ninja Diannaa (Talk) 23:06, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Adding the word “later” is more exact. Kierzek (talk) 02:46, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

Except we generally don't refer to people simply by their nationality. Additionally "A German" simply sounds terrible. DeaconShotFire (talk) 16:34, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

I have no objection to its removal. — Ninja Diannaa (Talk) 21:02, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

What we’re considering now, the phrase, “was the German companion…”, I don’t believe is awkward but if you guys want to remove the word German, I don’t have an objection. Kierzek (talk) 21:08, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

It's not obvious she was a German from the context; leaving it in would work for me. Either way is fine. — Ninja Diannaa (Talk) 21:16, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Here's another thought: we could say she was a German photographer; that was her occupation when she met Hitler, and she continued to pursue that trade after she became his companion. Adding: We do say that later in the first paragraph ("Braun was a photographer"), so that bit would have to be removed if we decide to move it to the first sentence. My latest opinion is that is what we should do. — Ninja Diannaa (Talk) 21:26, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

That's an interesting thought, especially as she is in some ways the best known recorder in photo and film of Hitler's domestic life.Sbishop (talk) 06:39, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

How about: ...was a German photographer, the companion and later the wife of Adolf Hitler. Think about it and tweak if need be. Kierzek (talk) 14:18, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 November 2021

EVA BRAUN was born on the 6th February 1910. NOT 1912 as you have stated. This would result in Eva being 35 years of age at the time of her death, god rest her soul and NOT 33 years of age at the time of her death as you have publicly stated. Sorry if this interferes with both Jewish and Masonic satanic stupidity regarding the obsession with the number 33. This undisputed fact is clearly documented in the last will and testament of Adolf Hitler. This document was given full authentication by all allied intelligence services immediately after the war and to this current date it remains valid and must be observed. 82.132.224.27 (talk) 01:08, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

As such, I would request this to be changed with immediate effect.

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Cannolis (talk) 01:17, 4 November 2021 (UTC)