Talk:Eurasian backflow/Archive 1

Archive 1

The term 'Eurasian backflow' and the inclusion of original research and other unrelated population groups

We should be very careful to avoid adding unnecessary things not mentioned in the cited studies, and any bloated information that is not dealing directly with the article topic. In this instance, the 'Eurasian backflow' is speaking to a specific migratory event that occurred in the Horn of Africa, not anywhere else. It is inappropriate to generalize it to any Eurasian migrations on the continent, as according to the reference of the terminology, it was speaking to a specific movement into Northeastern Africa. However, I understand that similar geneflow events have occurred on different parts of the continent, but I have not seen the term applied to specifically those other ancient migrations. I am willing to self-revert and restore the changes made by fellow IP editor: 138.124.187.13, if we can agree it is fine to apply it to any Western Eurasian geneflows that have occurred. I have no other qualms, and I believe the additions by the above editor (138.124.187.13) to have been very constructive and in good faith. 102.217.80.26 (talk) 10:16, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

I get your initial point regarding a specific term, but it is not encyclopedic to make an whole article about one single term when similar related terms (per WP:TOPIC) get excluded. This is WP:POVFORK. The removal of the other back migrations and geneflow events is unwarranted. Without the removed content, this article would fail WP:SIGCOV and will get reported by me for the article control admins (just in case this would be exaggerated into an edit war or conflict between us). The various sources I included use terms such as "Eurasian back-migration", "Eurasian geneflow", "Eurasian descended", "Back to Africa migration" etc. and fall into the topic range of "Eurasian geneflow", and or actually refer all to the same thing, back migrations and geneflow from Eurasia into Africa. In this sense I am restoring the version and hope the other user to understand this specific issue. I may add that such similar topics will generally be merged per WP:Merge. Please refer to the cited Wikipedia policies. Thank you!138.124.187.13 (talk) 11:08, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

Hello, thank you for responding, and I completely agree with you on this issue. Not a problem friend, I concur with your general additions, just wanted to make sure it was OK to add those things to this page. Cheers for the contributions! I will go through the referenced material you have included to ensure that what is cited is correlating with the summarized statements, the time frames included, mentioned population groups and other data points. 102.217.80.26 (talk) 16:37, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

Hey again, before I make any changes to ensure what is cited is actually being spoken about in any of the linked studies, could you let me know where exactly these things are mentioned in those references:

1. "or already early between 9,000 to 6,000 years ago"

2. "as well as among the Malagasy people of Madagascar."

3. Quote: "demonstrated that Northern Africa received significant amounts of gene-flow from Eurasia predating the Holocene and development of farming practices".

4. "Medieval geneflow events, such as the Arab expansion also left traces in various African populations."

Other things:

"and among specific ethnic groups of the Horn of Africa,"

"West-Eurasian geneflow arrived to Northern Africa during the Paleolithic (30,000 to 15,000 years ago), followed by other pre-Neolithic and Neolithic migration events."

I believe these statements are completely redundant as it is repeating what is already explained. 102.217.80.26 (talk) 17:07, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

Hey too, what do you mean with redundant and repeated? Here some quotations:

A debate existed whether this was the result of Paleolithic back-to-Africa migrations, or migrations connected to the introduction of farming practices to North Africa during the Neolithic [15,17]. A study on 15 kya old remains from Morocco (blue diamonds, Figure 1) demonstrated that Northern Africa received significant amounts of gene-flow from Eurasia predating the Holocene and development of farming practices [11••]. aDNA studies further found that Early Neolithic North Africans (∼7 kya) trace their ancestry to these Paleolithic North African groups [12••], while Late Neolithic groups (∼5 kya) contained an Iberian component, indicating trans-Gibraltar gene-flow. These two different signals in Early and Late Neolithic individuals, indicate that the spread of farming practices in North Africa involved both the movement of ideas and people.

Hogdson et al. 2014 (not cited here) suggests West-Eurasian migration into the Horn of Africa happened 23-12kya.

Another quote:

"Neolithization had a larger demographic impact than Arabization";"This scenario is consistent with Neolithization having shaped most of the current genetic variation in the region when compared to posterior back-to-North-Africa migration waves such as the Arabization."; "The intricate genome landscape in North Africa is shaped by two factors. The first one is an amalgam of genetic components resulting of extensive gene flow coming from different geographical (sub-Saharan Africa, Europe, Middle East, Caucasus, and North Africa itself) and temporal sources (Palaeolithic migrations, Neolithization, Arabization, and recent migrations)."

You can probably read the papers yourself too, if there is anything unclear feel free to discuss it, yet I don't see any redundant parts here. Could you please elaborate.138.124.187.13 (talk) 17:42, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

This paper may be interesting for you too, it has further relevant information:. Cheers.138.124.187.13 (talk) 17:59, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

Btw. the part with Madagascar was not sourced directly, just in case this is one of the papers which should be included:, perhaps more at Malagasy people. Will include these here or in the text when I am at home. Have a nice day.138.124.187.13 (talk) 18:15, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

References