Talk:Euclid Avenue (Cleveland)

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Ohio portal This article is supported by WikiProject Ohio (assessed as High-importance).

Cleveland High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Cleveland, the scope of which includes Cleveland and the Greater Cleveland Area. If you would like to join us, please visit the project page; if you have any questions, please consult the FAQ.ClevelandWikipedia:WikiProject ClevelandTemplate:WikiProject ClevelandCleveland
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

National Register of Historic Places

	National Register of Historic Places portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject National Register of Historic Places, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of U.S. historic sites listed on the National Register of Historic Places on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.National Register of Historic PlacesWikipedia:WikiProject National Register of Historic PlacesTemplate:WikiProject National Register of Historic PlacesNational Register of Historic Places
Related	This article has been rated as Related-importance on the project's importance scale.

U.S. Streets Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject U.S. Streets, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of streets in the United States on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.U.S. StreetsWikipedia:WikiProject U.S. StreetsTemplate:WikiProject U.S. StreetsU.S. city street
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Route designations

I decided to expand the route designations from the current ones to all since the creation of the modern Ohio numbering system (1923) because Euclid is often studied in a historical context. Mapsax (talk) 18:27, 16 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How long is Euclid Avenue?--DThomsen8 (talk) 01:27, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

How long is Euclid Avenue? If a citation can be found, add it to the article.--DThomsen8 (talk) 01:27, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please clarify: do you mean Euclid Avenue within the borders of the City of Cleveland? Or do you mean to include that stretch lying in the suburbs as well? NorthCoastReader (talk) 04:01, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Requested moves

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Euclid Avenue (disambiguation) already moved to Euclid Avenue, in agreement with consensus here that there is no primary topic. No consensus on moving this article to another title, but the issue got a bit lost in the debate over the disambiguation page. Perhaps another RM is needed to determine whether this page should be moved to Euclid Avenue (Ohio) or Euclid Avenue (Cleveland). Ucucha 16:01, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

— Put the disambiguation for multiple "Euclid Avenue"s and "Euclid Avenue Historic District"s at "Euclid Avenue", as the Ohio one is important but I believe it does not meet primary usage criteria. The Ohio avenue extends into other jurisdictions, i think, so use "Euclid Avenue (Ohio)" rather than more specific "(Cleveland, Ohio)" however. doncram (talk) 18:50, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Oppose the first part and instead move Euclid Avenue (disambiguation) → Euclid Avenue. Vegaswikian (talk) 19:36, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, i must have misstated the proposal meant. Just revised above. The proposal is to move "Euclid Avenue (disambiguation)" to "Euclid Avenue", not to move "Euclid Avenue (Cleveland, Ohio)" to "Euclid Avenue", which is what Vegaswikian objected to. Sorry! --doncram (talk) 19:45, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

OK, striking objection. Vegaswikian (talk) 06:48, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Strong support for moving Euclid Avenue (Cleveland, Ohio) back to Euclid Avenue, which up until yesterday, had been the article's location since 2004. The sheer volume of wikilinks pointing to Euclid Avenue (some of which now point to the relocated article) is a strong indication that the primary topic guideline applies. The street is of strong historic interest, and is the subject of at least two books. - Eureka Lott 19:45, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I made the move yesterday to the current position at "Euclid Avenue (Cleveland, Ohio)". I'm surprised that Clevelander-wikipedians pursued the strategy of seizing the name and using it in many articles, when it is not necessarily primary at all, in real world usage which is what matters. Some discussion at User talk:Doncram#Euclid Avenue. The ones that still point to "Euclid Avenue" can all be fixed. About the Ohio usage being primary, I think the Ohio street is unknown in Southern California where there are one or more prominent long Euclid Avenues that get more exposure every day. doncram (talk) 19:53, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It would be a mistake to assume that there's an agenda behind the links. Contributors merely linked to the relevant page when editing articles. It's just that there are a lot of notable people and places associated with it. - Eureka Lott 21:04, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Those links can be updated with a bot request. The existence of links is not a good reason not to name articles appropriately. I'm not saying that's your only argument; but it's not one that really should be considered. TJRC (talk) 21:07, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

WP:PRIMARYTOPIC suggests the opposite. It of course shouldn't be the only factor, but it should be taken into consideration. - Eureka Lott 21:22, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Other factors to take into account, per there, include Google hits. In first 30 google hits on "Euclid Avenue" i am seeing a lot of Atlanta, Georgia ones, a Toronto, Ontario one, some New York ones. Seems like less than 50% relate to Cleveland, Ohio, to me. I don't know how to tally these up, formally, as others commenting in primarytopic discussions often do, i think. doncram (talk) 21:35, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support moving Euclid Avenue (disambiguation) → Euclid Avenue. No need for the "(disambiguation)" suffix. There are plenty of Euclid avenue with Wikipedia articles; the Cleveland one is not sufficiently primary to be the target. As this implies, I would oppose moving Euclid Avenue (Cleveland, Ohio) back to Euclid Avenue. However, I Oppose moving Euclid Avenue (Cleveland, Ohio) → Euclid Avenue (Ohio). Streets are associated with cities, or at least metropolitan areas, not states. TJRC (talk) 21:05, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - If the article title is going to include the city name in parentheses, it should be Euclid Avenue (Cleveland), since the Wikipedia article for the city is Cleveland (not Cleveland, Ohio). --Orlady (talk) 22:25, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As this discussion has been brought to my attention, I note that there are other Euclid Avenues which are at least notable enough to have been designated as historic districts. The average person to whom "Euclid Avenue" is said will not respond, "oh yes, in Cleveland". There is no primary topic for this term. The appropriate resolution is thus to have this page at a disambiguation title, for which "(Cleveland)" would suffice, and to have the undisambiguated term serve as a disambiguation page. As for incoming links, those are easily dealt with. bd2412 T 03:26, 19 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks BD for commenting. I asked BD to comment, after noticing BD moved "Euclid Avenue (disambiguation)" to "Euclid Avenue" while this discussion was ongoing. I am okay with using "Euclid Avenue (Cleveland)" per last 2 comments, too. doncram (talk) 05:38, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
All incoming mainspace links to Euclid Avenue have now been disambiguated. bd2412 T 07:22, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Euclid Avenue (Cleveland, Ohio) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 22:30, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]