Talk:Emily Hobhouse

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Emily Hobhouse article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Biography: Military

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
	This article is supported by the military biography work group (assessed as Low-importance).

Politics of the United Kingdom Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Politics of the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Politics of the United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject Politics of the United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject Politics of the United KingdomPolitics of the United Kingdom
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Cornwall Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cornwall, an attempt to improve and expand Wikipedia coverage of Cornwall and all things Cornish. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project member page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.CornwallWikipedia:WikiProject CornwallTemplate:WikiProject CornwallCornwall-related

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

See drop-down box for suggested article edit guidelines:

Be bold - if you know something about Cornwall then put it in! We value your contributions and don't be afraid if your spelling isn't great as there are plenty of spelling and grammar experts on clean-up duty!
Articles on settlements in Cornwall should be written using the standard set of headings approved by the UK geography WikiProject's guideline How to write about settlements.
At WikiProject Cornwall we subscribe to the policies laid down by Wikipedia - particularly civility and consensus building. We are aware that the wording on Cornish entries can sometimes be a contentious topic, especially those concerning geography. You don't have to agree with everything but there is no excuse for rudeness and these things are best solved through consensus building and compromise. For more information see WP:CornwallGuideline.
These pages are not platforms for political discussion. Issues relating to Cornish politics should be restricted to those pages that directly deal with these issues (such as Constitutional status of Cornwall, Cornish nationalism, etc) and should not overflow into other articles.
Most of all have fun editing - that's the reason we all do this, right?!

Military history: Biography / British / European

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Military biography task force
	British military history task force
	European military history task force

South Africa Mid‑importance

	South Africa portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject South Africa, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of South Africa on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.South AfricaWikipedia:WikiProject South AfricaTemplate:WikiProject South AfricaSouth Africa
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Women's History Mid‑importance

	History portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women's history and related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women's HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject Women's HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Women's HistoryWomen's History
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Photographs

The article states: "In this article just one photograph of those who suffered and died in the camps has been included (in following paragraph covering the Bloemfontein Camp) - no more than one photograph in the article is included because the quoted words of Emily Hobhouse are descriptive enough in themselves to evoke in the reader a feeling for the grief and pain of those who suffered and died.

More images would be gratuitous and would fail to respect the tragic losses and suffering of those caught up in the tragedy and would not help to show the due sympathy and respect for the feelings of their descendants."

This is clearly a violation of Wikipedia policies concerning photographic documents, neutrality and censorship. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.160.72.231 (talk) 11:19, 6 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Removed as inappropriate tone and adds nothing to the article. Also removed following quote from the same editor:

"One European had the following comment on England's conduct with the concentration camps: Great Britain cannot win her battles without resorting to the despicable cowardice of the most loathsome cure on earth - the act of striking at a brave man's heart through his wife's honour and his child's life.."

as unsourced. Please re-add if reliable source can be found.

Rettens2 (talk) 18:07, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Found source. I was stymied for too long by the quote's inaccuracy as represented here. I only found the source after trying bits and pieces of it on Google. Binksternet (talk) 18:17, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Is she now 'controversial', or at least was she in 1994?

The SAS Emily Hobhouse article's section on SAS Emily Hobhouse being renamed Umkhonto implied (without clearly and explicitly stating) that she is a controversial figure in today's post-apartheid South Africa, or at least was in 1994. Is this correct, and did she do anything to deserve this (perhaps through allegedly only caring about suffering whites, or something like that)? I note that in 2004, President Thabo Mbeki quoted a 1914 speech of hers that seems critical of Boer attitudes to Black South Africans, but did her actions in 1900-1902 differ from her words in 1914? Or was it just the submarine itself that was comtroversial due to its operational history, perhaps particularly its role in a 1972 raid on Dar Es Salaam? Tlhslobus (talk) 03:49, 2 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Not very controversial. The renaming of SAS vessels was just because they wanted to move away from white person's names. The renaming did not reflect badly upon Hobhouse's reputation. Binksternet (talk) 04:50, 2 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. But 'Not very controversial' implies 'somewhat controversial'. If that is the case, this article should presumably say so and say why. Alternatively, if she's not at all controversial, the article on the submarine needs rewording, and perhaps this article may need to spell out that the renaming was 'nothing personal' (which in turn might perhaps be seen as implying some element of 'Black racism' in the renaming decision, which might also have to be denied, with reliable sources on these matters problably none too easy to find - though Mbeki quoting here in 2004 might help at least a little on both points). But I know far too little on the subject to feel comfortable making such changes myself. Tlhslobus (talk) 05:11, 2 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Is there any substance to the claim that she is not controversial. Simply stating she was not without backing up the assertion means nothing. Tlhslobus brings in evidence that there is some controversy. That means it deserves further investiagation not off the cuff statements.208.54.40.200 (talk) 09:52, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

That Mbeki quoted her yet approved the renaming shows that majoritarian (black, if you will) reactionary (if not racist) sentiment was responsible for the boilerplate, reflexive removal of her name and the renaming to SAS Umkhonto, IMO, although thankfully they didn't keep to gender and rename it "SAS Winnie Mandela". Quis separabit? 19:49, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Naming warship after 'Peace activist'

Also, was there ever any controversy about the appropriateness of 'honouring' a supposed 'peace activist' by naming a warship after her? Tlhslobus (talk) 06:56, 10 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Emily Hobhouse/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Needs serious layout editing. Lacks infobox, persondata and references. The article gets a B grade based solely on the contents as such. -Duribald 05:01, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What would be your suggestion for edits to the layout ?

The references all seem to be in place given that the blocks of quoted speech are Hobhouse's own words, transcribed from her writings, attributed. The persondata on Emily Hobhouse are given in several sections. Whst would you like to read in the infobox ? Thanks Kbservices 21:16, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Standard info box added.Michel Doortmont (talk) 15:59, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Last edited at 15:59, 15 March 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 14:26, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Quotes too long

The extracts from her writings are excessive. They should form a separate wiki page. Valetude (talk) 05:35, 14 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, far too long, and not adequately referenced. No indication of any elisions either. DuncanHill (talk) 13:09, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Edit required - Rachel Isabella Steyn

The entry has a line "was collected by Mrs. President Steyn (who was to remain a lifelong friend) and sent to Hobhouse for this purpose. "

Although she was married to M.T. Steyn, last president of the Free State Republic, her given names were Rachel Isabella (Tibbie). Could this be edited please?

There's a detailed entry on her life in the Afrikaans Wikipedia (https://af.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Isabella_Steyn). Her name also appears in the English entry on President M.T. Steyn https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Martinus_Theunis_Steyn NoiseJammer (talk) 16:44, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]