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Old AFD

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I'm just severely gloating because I attempted to create this page before Sandé's success and it was deleted. Sweet victory. (David Rush (talk) 22:06, 21 December 2011 (UTC))[reply]

Good one Dave. Had the same with Colin Bateman VinDibs (talk) 00:46, 7 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Official tracklist of "Our Version Of Events"

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The official tracklist was uploaded in Amazon ( http://www.amazon.co.uk/Our-Version-Events-Emeli-Sand%C3%A9/dp/B005H0YP7W ). The tracklist consists of 13 songs:

1. Heaven 2. My Kind Of Love 3. Where I Sleep 4. Mountains 5. Clown 6. Daddy (feat. Naughty Boy) 7. Maybe 8. Suitcase 9. Breaking The Law 10. Next To Me 11. River 12. Lifetime 13. Hope 14. Read All About It (Pt. III) [Bonus Track] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.165.78.54 (talk) 14:14, 8 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Born in

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[1] changed birth place to Sunderland. Unfortunately, the source given [2] does not say that - it says parents met there. It does say moved to Alford, Aberdeenshire at 4. Other sources might corroborate [3], but yet other sources, such as the BBC [4] [5], unambiguously say born in Alford. Given the discrepancies, I've removed mention of birth place. Gimmetoo (talk) 13:21, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Even though I have made reverts here I have no opinion or information on any of the particulars, I'm only only reverting a banned editor who I know is pushing a POV without regards for verifiability or NPOV; as far as I'm concerned please change it to whatever you think is appropriate. Amalthea 23:52, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sandé was born in Sunderland. She confirmed this herself. She did say she was Scottish on twitter, because she sees herself as Scottish with her moving there at a young age. However, she was born in England. When she was in an interview, with The Mirror explaining her album, when she was talking about track "Mountain" she said "He’s from Zambia and he and mum got together in the 80s in Sunderland where I was born." Source 1 Source 2 Source 3

--ƒɾɛɛᴅᴑᴍºᵀᴬᴸᴷ 09:49, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, there are sources which say she was born in Sunderland. You will notice I listed one. There are also sources, like the BBC links I also gave, which clearly say born in Alford. How do you propose to handle the discrepancy? If the discrepancy is not dealt with somehow, then the article will keep changing back and forth as people run across a source on one side or the other. Gimmetoo (talk) 17:07, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Personally, I think it's obvious that she was born in England with her saying loads of times her parents met in Sunderland, and yes she was rasied in Scotland. Maybe put it down at born in the United Kingdom this covers England and Scotland. Until we know for sure. --92.30.142.77 (talk) 17:18, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've labelled it as English-Scottish. Many artist, have this including Nicki Minaj who has Trinidadian-American. --ƒɾɛɛᴅᴑᴍºᵀᴬᴸᴷ 21:52, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

English-Scottish doesn't work. The article would be best amended to British. This would best satisfy the criteria. A person can be born in a particular country but in actual fact not be that nationality. Born in Sunderland and raise in Alford and British would be correct. The fact everyone keeps arguing over this is rediculous! Monkeyonyourback (talk) 21:15, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree and will make the edit. Scottish isn't even a nationality (yet!). Darmot and gilad (talk) 07:53, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Then you would admit that English is not yet a nationality either? Or are you assuming that English and British are the same? Don't confuse citizenship with nationality. Scotland and England were separate nations long before the UK. What nationality were those Scots (and English) before the Act of Union?? If the Scots gave up their nationhood, then so did the English, by your logic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.136.49.0 (talk) 17:08, 5 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I know Wikipedia does not like official government records (preferring PR stuff) but her birth is registered in Sunderland in March 1987 according to the GRO. jmb (talk) 14:02, 26 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

For some unknown reason her birthplace is listed here as "Coventry, Tyne and Wear". This is clearly nonsense because Coventry is in the West Midlands. Can anyone shed any light on this discrepancy? Rebecca Shaw 00:10, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Per above there is debate about whether she was born in Sunderland or just raised there. Presumably at some point it was changed to Coventry without changing the county. I updated the infobox to say Sunderland, consistent with the current body of the article. VQuakr (talk) 01:31, 4 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

birthdate?

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Finnish wiki has it as May 20, 1987. The source is from listal.com. 82.141.125.5 (talk) 02:28, 8 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This date cannot be correct nor can the one in our article as the year is wrong. The birth was registered in the March Quarter of 1987 in the Sunderland registration district. Thus the latest date for the birth is 31 March 1987. From our reference I think that 10 March 1987 would be correct. Keith D (talk) 19:38, 23 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

BRITISH

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CLEARLY SHES BRITISH!!!!!! GRRR. NATIONIST SCOTS AT IT AGAIN, your as bad as the Irish claiming everyone whos achieved anything as Irish despite them being British! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.145.144.171 (talk) 21:54, 28 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This already has been closed in a discussion. There are three perfectly reliable sources provided that describe her as Scottish and that should be enough. So, just, leave it alone. And no need to shout. DozenNovelCor23 (talk) 22:13, 28 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Why would you add her Zambian identity in the opening paragraph but ignore her English identity? Surely the best compromise would be Zambian-British? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cymru123 (talk • contribs) 13:48, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion cannot be closed because someone announces it so. It doesn't make sense to mention the background of her Zambian father in the lead and not that of her English mother. Zambian-British covers all bases. Span (talk) 17:20, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hurrr, no way - she personally identifies with Scotland and that's what goes into the lede, nothing else - and esp no ancestry.--Τασουλα (talk) 19:43, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hurrr, yes way - this is a tweet from her Twitter page - "First time I've seen @TinieTempah and @JessieJ's performance! I'm A proud Brit tonight :)" What is with the biased nationalists on Wikipedia?? Almost every article I come across where someone is not from England but elsewhere in the UK, it's an uphill struggle to get anyone listed as British, even though said celebrity in question usually has said it themselves, because these nationalists go around reverting people's edits and give little to no explanation, let alone back it up with sources in many cases. Not only that, but scanning through this article, I don't see any references whatsoever to her being British or from the United Kingdom. Has Scotland held the independence referendum yet? NO. Scotland is part of the UK. http://twitter.com/emelisande/status/234768752212844545 82.44.72.174 (talk) 01:52, 14 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone who has edited British biographies on Wikipedia for more than a week knows that the British nationalities are changed back and forth at random, in some cases on a daily basis. There is no guideline on it and people get very upset about the question. It's a boring, pointless question, unresolvable at this point, raging across Wikipedia since its inception. I suggest giving your time on Wikipedia to work that will help improve an article. Span (talk) 10:33, 14 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

British citizens should not be discriminated against in such a way, but sadly anti british bias is widespread on wikipedia and always has been. BritishWatcher (talk) 11:56, 14 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
In my experience it is no more widespread than what we might call "pro-British bias", but I can see we are unlikely to agree. I don't watch too many of our "popular culture" articles, but if this one is anything to go by, Spanglej is not exaggerating. It seems like a huge waste of human effort, when a simple policy or guideline would suffice. I can see why it might be unresolvable in the sense that no solution is likely to please more than about half of those participating, but have there been any RfCs or similar in the past that have at least attempted to resolve the issue? Ben MacDui 08:16, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
lol anti British bias can be demonstrated by numerous examples, handling British nationality is one of them but there are others.. such as the fact there is apparently no such thing as a British inventions for example. By the way i reverted your grossly misleading edit, in which you lied by claiming someone was committing vandalism and adding uncited material by putting British. BritishWatcher (talk) 08:18, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I see you have already taken the plunge. I didn't say it was vandalism (that was the nonsense about Labrinth the previous editor missed) , I did say it was uncited - which it still is. The citations state she is Scottish. Doubtless you will read them and doubtless someone else will move it back soon enough. My above question stands. Ben MacDui 08:23, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ah ok i apologise sorry, i was actually just going to tone it down a bit too as i did go too far, although thought the edit summary was still misleading by including the change back to Scottish from British, that is not uncited. BritishWatcher (talk) 08:26, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Looking at the edit history, yes it does appear I was labelling the British thing vandalism, but that was not my intention. In between times Discospinster had removed this so my reversion only changed the one and not the other. Apologies for the confusion - not sure how that could have been avoided. Ben MacDui 08:28, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I see, sorry again for my above comment. I was in the process of toning it down when i got the edit conflict. On the primary issue, there can be no doubt she is a British citizen, the fact she had an English mother and was raised in Scotland is why British seems the more appropriate choice to use in this case. BritishWatcher (talk) 08:36, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No problem - I don't doubt she is a British citizen either, although I do not understand why you think it makes sense to have the lead state that she is British when the three following citations clearly refer her being Scottish. However I am much less interested in the specific than the generality. Is it possible that no-one has ever attempted to fix this endless and unproductive edit warring, apparently a widespread phenomenon, by attempting any kind of RfC or guideline proposal? Somewhere I think I saw some reference to a compromise being reached about sporting BLPs (which I tend to avoid). It seems overdue if this is the case. Ben MacDui 19:34, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I did raise this matter on the MOS biographies talkpage as there were biased edits taking place by one editor in particular, changing English to British, whilst changing British to Scottish. A request for comment or some form of attempt to get a reasonable consensus id certainly support. I accept that there are cases where its best to avoid calling people British, and made some suggestions on that page. BritishWatcher (talk) 19:41, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The sources present in the article support the "Scottish" label, not the British one. If you want to be a fundamentalist and change it from Scottish to British, you will need to find some source that support this point of view. I would suggest something like "British/Scottish", but this is almost a pleonasm. Sławomir Biały (talk) 22:53, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well there was agreement to have Scottish and British on the Chris Hoy article but that is now being reverted due to claimed tautology. The reason why British seems justified on this particular article is because she has an English mother... BritishWatcher (talk) 23:30, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You obviously didn't bother to read my justification. I would just go with "British", but it's going to need some other sources than the ones hanging off the nationality at the moment. Sławomir Biały (talk) 23:40, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The sources are there to back up the use of Scottish, but i will get some sources saying she is British if that helps justify mentioning both. When someone has mixed parentage like this with an English mother,it seems reasonable to use British. Saying "Scottish and British" is a compromise on articles i would support always, in the hope that it in part helps prevent edit warring with one changing from the other + of course it provides readers with more information. BritishWatcher (talk) 23:44, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
To my ears at least "Scottish and British" sounds like a pleonasm, but I don't really have any strong reasons for objecting to it. Sławomir Biały (talk) 23:55, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I just passed by because I'd never heard of her. This looks at first sight like a slow burn edit-war is happening or has happened about "Scottish", in that context adding "Scottish and British" (which is a pleonasm, and WP:POINTY) would just be part of the edit war - and since it is a BLP one can easily see it ending up at Edit War noticeboard even without a 3RR. And who added the WikiProject England tag on Talk and when? What's English about this BLP that requires such a WP:POINTY tag? Being maybe aged 1-4 in Sunderland, possibly maybe? Very silly. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:37, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]


I am a Scottish Nationalist for the record. However I believe British should always be used when referring to people from the UK. This is because Scotland is not a sovereign state at this moment in time (unfortunately). Nor is England, Wales or Northern Ireland for that matter. We don't refer to singers from Texas as Texan singers on this we describe them as American. Funnily enough Texas has a lot more power over it's own affairs than Scotland/England and so on. The use of Scottish and so on as nationalities is confusing and misleading, even though I consider myself Scottish in reality there is no such legal nationality at this moment in time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.104.193.248 (talk) 18:01, 26 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

She is Zambian. Scottish people are not African. You know it. The end. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.112.15.185 (talk) 08:01, 24 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Really? That's funny because she was born (sorry raised and originated) in Scotland, which is a constitute country within the sovreign state of the UK. Unless you can prove she is a Zambian national - she ain't Zambian. And if you're trying to go by her ancestry then why isn't she Zambian-English!? Ergo, you have nothing to go on. You know it. Case closed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.211.124.161 (talk) 01:52, 1 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Changed Scottish-English to British. This anti-British editing is making the UK wikipedia entries a mess. I suggest a compromise phrase to end UK nationality edit wars. Why not use the following: [Insert name] is a British [insert their profession] from England/Scotland/Northern Ireland/Wales.. That way you have recognised the legal nationality that is British and you acknowledge the various areas of the UK. Isn't that more balanced? So for Emeli Sande it would be Emeli Sande is a British singer born in Scotland Erzan (talk) 15:16, 30 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

We're back to this problem again. Sande was born in England, but later moved to Scotland. This does not make her Scottish, any more than Paul McCartney or JK Rowling are Scottish. The easiest way to describe her is British (which would include English and Scottish).84.70.250.96 (talk) 19:22, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The lead sentence is just daft.

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Currently it says;

"Adele Emeli Sandé pron.: /sænˈdiː/ san-DEE (born 10 March 1987), better known as Emeli Sandé, is an English-born Scottish recording artist and songwriter"

I'm talking particularly about the hideously ugly phrase "English-born Scottish". The lead is supposed to get the basic, key, facts over, but the way things are phrased it will leave the reader more puzzled than informed. What exactly is "English-born Scottish"? What difference has it made to her fame, notability, talent or music that she was born in England? What justifies it being shoe-horned into in the lead sentence in such a clumsy way? I can't think of any reason.

I can see the inevitable British/Scottish argument above. If this is a compromise to accommodate that it is a bad one. If there is a dispute over her nationality (and more importantly no clear self-identification from Sandé either way) then it would seem obvious to describe her as British. She has a British mother, she was born in Britain, she has lived all her life in Britain. No one can factually say she is not British.

Anything has got to be better than the lead as it is just now. It is not phrased that way for the benefit of the reader, but to pacify POV pushing editors. Wikipedia is not written for their benefit. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 22:17, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I actually read it as "English" and "born Scottish" (thus "English-born Scottish"), that's how confusing is what the article currently says. :) --82.170.113.123 (talk) 14:40, 28 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request on 27 March 2013

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I am requesting that the part of where Emeli Sande was born is changed. It says she was born in Sunderland and moved to aberdeenshire which is incorrect. As posted on Emeli Sande's own website she was born in Aberdeenshire scotland not sunderland, England. Mhairii x (talk) 15:06, 27 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: Contradicts reliable source on the article. —KuyaBriBriTalk 15:20, 27 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

(Re)Move/Add Sources, Born In, Moved To

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After reading that Emeli Sandé has topped the Beatles record of most weeks in the UK's Official Albums Chart Top 10 (with a debut album), I decided to check the Emeli Sandé article, since I'd never heard of her. I also read this Talk page, including the recent edit request and born in discussion. Someone needs to move, remove and add sources to make sure that we properly back up the claims in the Early life section about where Emeli Sandé was born and where she moved to. Here's the problem. The article states that "Emeli Sandé was born in Sunderland" and only one of the five sources used actually mentions this, namely the The Whitehaven News, which is a local paper of a small town and port on the coast of Cumbria, England. The article also states that she "moved with her parents to Alford, Aberdeenshire" and the first of two sources states the opposite, namely "[...] was born in Alford, Aberdeenshire, [...]" (emphasis mine). A lot of media mix up where Emeli Sandé was born and where she was (primarily) raised. In fact, to give two examples, the BCC says here (and here) she was "born in Alford, Aberdeenshire" and here she was "born in Sunderland", and the Daily Record says here she was "born in Alford, Aberdeenshire" and here she was "Born in Sunderland". Last.fm Alford, Mirror Sunderland, Emeli Daily Alford, Innovation Music Sunderland, and so on. In other words; suggestion: remove the first source about where she moved to and add a second proper one, and add at least two proper sources after the "born in Sunderland" in clause. Just for that clause, not five sources for the whole sentence of which only a local newspaper mentions the city. --82.170.113.123 (talk) 14:21, 28 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: Edit requests are intended to be made in a specific "change X to Y" format, not suggestions for vague and sweeping changes to sourcing and content of an article. You've obviously done some research here. In my opinion, the best person to make changes such as these to an article is the person doing the research. Might I suggest you create an account and spend a few days making some edits around Wikipedia? You'll then be able to make changes to this article yourself! --ElHef (Meep?) 16:48, 28 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Here are the specifics. After "She moved with her parents to Alford, Aberdeenshire, when she was four." remove the BCC reference ([2]), because that piece says "was born in Alford". And after the _clause_ "Emeli Sandé was born in Sunderland" (not the whole sentence) add one/several/all of the following references:[1][2][3][4]

References

  1. ^ "Brit Awards: Emeli Sande wins two awards". BBC. February 21, 2013. Retrieved April 28, 2013. Sande was born in Sunderland [...]
  2. ^ Dingwall, John (February 16, 2013). "Family of Emile Sande open up about their superstar daughter". Daily Record. Retrieved April 28, 2013. Born in Sunderland to Diane and Zambian-born dad Joel, [...]
  3. ^ Martin, Gavin (February 10, 2012). "Emeli Sande tells story of debut album Our Version Of Events". Mirror. Retrieved April 28, 2013. He's from Zambia and he and mum got together in the 80s in Sunderland where I was born.
  4. ^ "Adele Sande". Innovation Music. Retrieved April 28, 2013. Born in Sunderland, 20-year-old Adele [...]
Looks good to me, checkY done, thanks! Amalthea 18:11, 28 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Not "English-born Scottish"

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The lead section claims she is "English-born Scottish". This is not true, because, as the article states, "Emeli Sandé was born in Sunderland". Sunderland is not part of Scotland, so she is not "born Scottish". (See also the related comment by user Escape Orbit.) --82.170.113.123 (talk) 14:35, 28 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Never mind, she is English-born and Scottish. I get it now. --82.170.113.123 (talk) 14:38, 28 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Someone please fix this mess of a sentence

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In "early life" "Her teacher dad Joel moved from Zambia as a student and met Scots mum Diane while they were both at university in Sunderland." 68.110.28.104 (talk) 00:25, 13 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have trimmed a bit hopefully it addresses concern and removes some non-encyclopaedic words. Feel free to suggest further changes. Keith D (talk) 11:10, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wording

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Under "Artistry" section: "Sandé said she wanted her music to be remembered as that of Nina Simone, one of her favourite artists." Can this be rephrased? On first reading it sounds like she wants her music to be remembered as Nina Simone's music, which I doubt is the intention.

My immediate thought was this: "Sandé said she wanted her music to be remembered like that of Nina Simone, one of her favourite artists" but it isn't particularly elegant. Acb314 (talk) 21:14, 5 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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“I’ve always been proud to be both British and African."

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Seems Emeli's official website states, The official website for internationally renowned, British singer-songwriter Emeli Sandé. She herself is clear on her identity. Then you realise: OK, I’ve grown up in the UK. I’m culturally British.’[1]. “I’ve always been proud to be both British and African."[2]

References

  1. ^ https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/may/05/emeli-sande-on-coming-out-race-and-making-music-interview
  2. ^ https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/entertainment/4829467/tv-emeli-sande-grandparents-war/
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