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I've removed the line 'Its status changed to that of a priory, with the bishop as titular abbot.' Given the logic of Benedictine monasticism, all priories are subject to an abbey. The fact that the monastery is headed in practice by a prior doesn't mean that it's not still an abbey; after all it still has an abbot - it's just that he's bishop! The way to determine this would be to discover how what the institution was called during its period as cathedral and monastery.However that's a task that's beyond my knowledge to perform Ender's Shadow Snr (talk) 16:34, 7 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"Its most notable feature is the central octagonal tower, with lantern above".
I realise there has been considerable debate on which external images to use, but it strikes me that none of them show the east (or central) tower and lantern, which according to the lead paragraph, is Ely's "most notable feature". Not sure where it would fit, but there is currently a void below the subsection header "Octogon". Any suggestions? Alansplodge (talk) 16:02, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed the Octagon should feature but if for the infobox as lead image it should show the context of the Cathedral being "the ship of the Fens" to draw the reader in. I have planned to take such a photo for several years without fruit, one reason being the hours of travelling involved each time both for reconnaissance and precise lighting and weather requirements. I am happy to share my thoughts that it would need to be taken with early morning light and with the sea that the ship is on being provided by ground mist. The area of Stuntney is the likely camera point; a telephoto lens being required but not an extreme one my calculations showed.
Turner had quite a good eye though perhaps not to the taste of Wynne's virgin admirers. Joseph Mallord William Turner - View of Ely Cathedral - Google Art Project
If the point of the post Alansplodge is to chose an image the one you show has its drawbacks. IMHO it is cropped too close, has a distracting background and could be better lit. On the other hand the placement is simple; it should be in the Octagon section.Best wishes.SovalValtos (talk) 19:30, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ely Cathedral from Cambridge
@SovalValtos: It's not easy to take a side-on view of the cathedral, which is probably why there are no free images available. I have photographed it with my pocket compact from the nearest hill in a direct line from the south elevation, a golf course 17 miles away in Cambridge. I've included this on the right purely for information - I don't know whether it would be possible to take a usable image from this location with a decent lens on a clear day? Nearer locations such as Stuntney etc might be more viable, even though at an oblique angle - but I do think the view from Cambridge demonstrates the "ship of the fens" concept more starkly.----Pontificalibus06:54, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes from Wandlebury that's right. My shot is already zoomed in, and included some foreground and the farmhouse just to help people locate the cathedral with the naked eye. It's hard to see when standing there so I tell people to look up from the gable end of the farm house. I don't have sufficient knowledge to know what a decent shot from that location would look like but it would surely be interesting.----Pontificalibus11:08, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This file, File:26-Ely-071.jpg, is perhaps the closest at the moment to the 'whole aspect' you're looking for, although not sure the colours are quite right - the contrast is quite high. Bobtalk09:19, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
After edit conflict. Two valuable contributions User:Pontificalibus and Bob. The one with the barges I had already rejected, though re-reading the 'Infobox Image' section above I see that I had hopefully "improved" it from its original state. There have been several camera spots that I had identified. Somewhere on Queens Quanea Drove near 52.388 0.289 looks promising to include ground mist as the sea. Google Earth street view gives an idea both for this and other possibles but I cannot seem to link, and must not copyvio by uploading. I prefer a quarter view with the W tower and Octagon separated by sky rather than slab side on. Suitable lighting makes it more interesting. Even if not used in the article it would be would be good to have in commons. Is there anyone local who could have a go?SovalValtos (talk) 10:55, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The twitter contact, a good lead User:Pontificalibus, would likely need months for the right conditions even if interested. I hope they are and already contribute or will do. I am expecting here a picture worthy of featured status in itself. The subject deserves it.
Some slow sums have shown that pics from Queens Grove Quanea Grove or Stuntney have confirmed that a 35mm full frame lens of 300 or 400mm would suffice for the image I have in mind (details on request). Wandlebury might be used in the same way with the most expensive kit, but I think better used, for an another further 'draw in' pic. Such clear visibility as would be required from Wandlebury is rare but does exist in combination with the atmospheric ground mist.SovalValtos (talk) 20:00, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Another possible vantage point is the walkway of the new Ely Southern Bypass, which crosses the railway and the river on a viaduct. Verbcatcher (talk) 04:52, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Brilliant Verbcatcher; real progress. I prefer the composition from Quanea Drove, if nothing else it shows the Lady chapel, good separation of architectural elements and there is less foreground clutter. File:Ely Cathedral from Quanea Drove C.jpg is already better than anything in the article for the infobox. With trepidation further improvements could include cropping down from the top left corner at the same picture ratio to exclude the brightly lit house gable end on the left and reduce sky but maintain foreground. It would be worth trying a series of slightly later times but this may already be the best. A fluffy cloud or two? higher vantage point? a yokel reed cutting with haywain rather than car? nearer to Quanea hill? and of course the ground mist, and then Feature pic here we come.SovalValtos (talk) 13:57, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@SovalValtos: thank you for our kind remarks. I'll try cropping as you suggest; presumably you feel that File:Ely Cathedral from Quanea Drove B.jpg is too tightly framed. Fluffy clouds and ground mist could be Photoshopped but would probably look fake, otherwise I'll have to watch the weather. I chose the early morning for the sun direction, but an hour or so later would be ok. There are not many higher vantage points nearby. My camera's GPS indicated 2.4 m ASL, Quanea Hill is 6 m and Thorney Hill is 12 m. Morever, the trees on these hills might get in the way and the greater distance would cause more haze. Going nearer to Quanea Hill would cause the Lady Chapel Window to be more obscured and the pyramidal roof of Ely Maltings (central middleground) to be less obscured. I have other photos with this framing without the car, but this one was the sharpest. Yokels and haywains would be more difficult, but is that a WWII pillbox? Verbcatcher (talk) 23:45, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
User:PontificalibusVerbcatcher Although the title of this talk page section is 'External view showing the lantern' we have moved on to discussing the lead picture to be included at the top or in the infobox. I see Andrew Sharpe has added a decent external pic of the octagon so that resolved for now. Yes, Ely Cathedral from Quanea Drove B, too tightly framed with too much sky and too little fen foreground. As little fake photoshop as possible for my taste though I personally can't resist cropping. Original file uploading preferred if acceptable to the photo artist. Boosting of lurid colours and adding non existant fluffy's etc can be anathema; myself included. Hard work and time spent finding the camera spot worthwhile. Even a few feet could be important for finials/pinacle alignment. The higher vantage point I had in mind was at the same spot but with a ladder, or on top of a car or a bus! Whether higher would be better is difficult to imagine but it might move some obscuring away. The sun direction could be a matter of minutes rather than an hour. The Met Office forecast includes visibility [3] so waiting for the rare excellent conditions worthwhile rather than faking haze reduction. Leaf off tree could be helpful though I think the one over the Lady chapel might be Yew (not checked). Pruning saws not permitted. We are getting to the point where we have a fine image for the top. Are there further comments before this being used from other editors? A week or so should be allowed before a change is made.SovalValtos (talk) 10:35, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have uploaded a new set of photos. I uploaded uncropped versions first and then replaced them with crops, so the cropping could be changed by other editors. One of these may be suitable for the infobox:
What a treat. Seldom does an editor take such care. No leg work involved for me this time! Thank you for posting the originals as well as your cropped versions. I have only looked at the crops so far. My immediate reaction is that 'F' and 'I' have the better camera angle in that the east window of the Lady chapel is less obscured and the pinnacles of the south transept are better placed along the roof-line of the nave. I suspect the late morning lighting will prove more popular but I tend towards the 0816hr version as being more interesting. I will comment further when I have played with your originals. Best wishes.SovalValtos (talk) 17:53, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Verbcatcher having looked further at your latest three 'F' is still my winner as you have cropped it. There are possible refinements of camera angle that could be tried such as moving forward into the fields to open out the obscuring trees, or a higher vantage at the same spot. You mentioned above 'one was the sharpest' are you using a tripod without vibration reduction or handheld with? A tripod without, might help. I think subtle sharpening of your pics might also help. With a view towards featured pic status. User: Richard Nevell may be able to help us by contacting photo graders to have a look. I am keen to see 'F' used in the infobox, but as there have been differing opinions in the past should all those who have expressed opinions be pinged, or is relying on the page being watched sufficient? Pinging all contributors is not something I know how to do quickly. Best wishes.SovalValtos (talk) 03:31, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Moving forward into the fields could be awkward. The immediate barrier is a substantial drainage channel, and there is a crop growing, probably potatoes. The trees obscuring parts of the cathedral are in Cherry Hill Park close the the cathedral, so moving into the fields will make little difference. File:Ely Cathedral from Middle Fen Bank D.jpg is from the same azimuth angle at about 60% of the distance, and slightly higher as Middle Fen Bank is about 2.5 m tall. Google Street View confirms that a slightly higher camera position on Quanea Drove would make little difference.[4] I plan to try again in the winter when many of the trees will be bare.
I was using a sturdy tripod with image stabilisation disabled. The camera was set to live view (mirror locked up) with a 2 second shutter delay to reduce vibration. Some heat shimmer is visible despite the early hour, this is more evident in File:Ely Cathedral from Quanea Drove H.jpg which was taken from a greater distance and a little later.
I used Canon's DPP software to process the raw camera file. I set DPP to improve the contrast by adjusting the gamma curve, and increased the sharpening setting from the default 3 to 8 (the maximum is 10). I have since investigated unsharp masking controls; setting these to maximum gives an artificial effect but I may be able to make a more subtle improvement. This would be unlikely to make a significant effect at the size of an Infobox image. I am a beginner with DPP and would welcome any expert advice. Any adjustments are probably better made by reprocessing the raw file, not by editing the JPEG file.
We should assume that any interested editors are watching this page, and that this discussion has continued long enough for them to be aware of it; pinging them should be unnecessary.
Verbcatcher you have not stated your own preference. Either 'F' or 'I' I would support and go ahead by replacing the west front view in the infobox. I think you already know more than me about processing. User: Richard Nevell is a busy person so I have looked further finding Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Nomination procedure. User:Armbrust is a regular FPC editor/grader who might be able to advise which of 'F' or 'I' he prefers or any problems; they may both be FP quality of course. I don't think being on a talk page will fulfill the requirement of page use yet to be graded FP.SovalValtos (talk) 08:19, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I prefer 'F' as the building is clearer. I have uploaded a revised version that I reprocessed with slightly different parameters, and I plan replace the infobox image with it. Should we use the old infobox image elsewhere in the article, possibly replacing the picture that shows the Galilee porch? Verbcatcher (talk) 15:23, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
To me 'I' is more animated and has a more interesting sky. 'F' ts also very good, although for some reason the detailed foreground flora catches my eye! But nice work all round, Verbcatcher. Well done. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:35, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes File:Ely Cathedral Exterior, Cambridgeshire, UK - Diliff.jpg should replace File:Ely Cathedral West Front - geograph.org.uk - 178782.jpg as it has better perspective and resolution.SovalValtos (talk) 18:55, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ely Cathedral is an Anglican cathedral in the city of Ely in Cambridgeshire, England. The cathedral can trace its origin to an abbey founded in Ely in 672 by St Æthelthryth (also called Etheldreda). The earliest parts of the present building date to 1083, and it was granted cathedral status in 1109. Until the Reformation the cathedral was dedicated to St Etheldreda and St Peter, at which point it was refounded as the Cathedral Church of the Holy and Undivided Trinity of Ely. It is the cathedral of the Diocese of Ely and seat of the Bishop of Ely. Ely Cathedral was built in a monumental Romanesque style, with the galilee porch, lady chapel and choir later rebuilt in an exuberant Decorated Gothic. Its central octagonal tower and the West Tower give it a prominent position above the surrounding flat landscape. This photograph shows the cathedral's lady chapel.
Ely Cathedral from Quanea Drove E.jpg
File:Ely Cathedral from Quanea Drove F.jpg
File:Ely Cathedral from Quanea Drove I.jpg
