Talk:Ely, Cambridgeshire/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Origin of 'tawdry'

In the culture section it says

'At this fair, cheap necklaces, made from brightly coloured silk, were sold. These were called tawdry lace. Tawdry, a shortened form of Audrey, now means cheap and gaudy jewellery.'

I don't have access to the online version of the OED but according to my print version the above is not quite correct. The definition of 'tawdry' refers you to 'tawdry lace' where is says that it is a contraction of 'St. Audrey's lace' (the saint being important as it gives the 't' sound) and that 'tawdry' now means pertaining to the nature of cheap and tawdy finery' (not 'jewellery'). If I change it to that will it still fit in with the online OED definition? Richerman (talk) 17:12, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Not sure. OED via my Cambridgeshire or Lancashire County library cards :) says of Tawdry adj. "Of the nature of cheap finery; showy or gaudy without real value." and of Tawdry Lace, n.—"In the earliest quotation St. Audrey's lace, i.e. lace of St. Audrey, Etheldrida, or Æþelðryþ (daughter of Anna king of East Anglia, and patron saint of Ely): A silk ‘lace’ or necktie, much worn by women in the 16th and early 17th c.; sometimes taken as a type of female adornments". It then goes on

[As to the origin of the name, it is told, originally by Bæda ( Eccl. Hist. iv. ix.), and after him by Ælfric in the Life of St. Æþelðryth, Virgin ( Ælfric's Lives of Saints, ed. Skeat, 1885, xx. ll. 49–60), that St. Audrey died of a tumour in her throat, which she considered to be a just retribution, because in her youth she had for vain show adorned her neck with manifold splendid necklaces, ‘forðan þe ic on iugoðe frætwede mine swuran mid mænigfealdum swurbeagum’. In the 16th century, N. Harpsfield, Archdeacon of Canterbury under Philip and Mary (died 1588), after relating the story in his (Latin) Historia Anglicana Ecclesiastica (Douay 1622), adds ‘Our women of England are wont to wear about the neck a certain necklace [torquem quendam ], formed of thin and fine silk, perchance in memory of what we have told’. See also, more particularly, quot. 1674 below. Skinner in hisEtymologicon (licensed 1668), explains Tawdry lace as ‘Ties, fringes, or bands, bought at the fair held at the fane of St. Etheldreda, as rightly points out Doctor Th. Henshaw’. There is no discrepancy between the two statements. ‘St. Audrey's laces’ would naturally be largely offered for sale at her fair, and though this did not give the article its name, it doubtless made it more widely known, and led to the production of cheap and showy forms for the ‘country wenches’ (see Nares s.v.), which at length gave to tawdry its later connotation.]

OED

However, the above aside, I do like your analysis of the 't' sound --Senra (Talk) 17:28, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Additionally, from OED Tawdry lace: "a1616 SHAKESPEARE Winter's Tale (1623) IV. IV. 248 Come you promis'd me a tawdry-lace, and a paire of sweet Gloues" --Senra (Talk) 17:37, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

I think that pertaining to the nature of is an important part of the definition as the word is used today for all sorts of things rather than just the finery itself. Also 'finery' rather than 'jewellery' seems to be common to both definitions. Richerman (talk) 17:48, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

The Cambridgeshire History stuff

Heh! I will do my best to find alternative sources for all of that stuff, as and when I can. Real Life issues are a pain at the mo, but I'll do some hunting about and see what I can find for them. Geoffrey de Mandeville should be easy enough to find alternative sources for, the rest may require a bit more work. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 13:29, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Not a problem. Thank you for your response. I am looking too. I have real life time issues at the moment but I will get round to this later this week --Senra (Talk) 13:36, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Ehrenkater

Regarding the edits by Ehrenkater (talk · contribs) today [1]

I have reverted these edits, as they've been challenged, in accord with Wikipedia principles of WP:BRD. [2]

I noted the start of a discussion on User talk:Ehrenkater ([3]) but, as this is a content issue, I think it's best discussed here, so I've copied the thread below. I hope we can chat about it here. Best,  Chzz  ►  19:25, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Ely, Cambridgeshire

Thank you for your edits to Ely, Cambridgeshire. Much appreciated. I have however partially reverted two of your edits both of which changed the existing spelling of medieval to mediaeval. My reasoning is that the OED (2011) confirms that the modern spelling (Brit. & US) is medieval. For example C S LEWIS 1964 "Yet all the while she [sc. Nature] is, for the medievals, only a personification". Yes. I am aware that there is a Pamela Blakeman quotation within the article with the old, now rare, spelling --Senra (Talk) 18:53, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Your recent edits: 1 2 are not minor edits as you have classified them. Please revise your understanding of minor edit, especially for articles currently under review and ensure you are abiding by those guidelines in future. This will considerably assist other editors such as myself --Senra (Talk) 19:05, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Please revert all of your edits in this diff as none of them are consistent with the sources. I do value your contributions and some of them have been brilliant, but changing the meaning of prose in this manner is not useful when an article is under review. As you have made further excellent edits after this one, I shall be forced to revert all of your good edits if you do not self revert those in here. Thank you --Senra (Talk) 19:12, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

I've reviewed the edit you refer to, and most or all of the changes in it are merely changes in phraseology for the sake of clarity and do not alter the meaning - and thus cannot give rise to inconsistencies with the sources. If there is any particular item that you feel strongly about, please feel free to revert it, as you did for the spelling of "mediaeval". Ehrenkater (talk) 19:20, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

As mentioned above - I've undone them, while we discuss. Cheers,  Chzz  ►  19:25, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

...and, apologies to Ehrenkater - I may have 'undone' good edits too, with this. Sorry. No rush though; I just wanted us to start discussing things; if some/all are OK, we can easily put 'em back. Sorry if it seemed rude. I just wanted to promote discussion and agreement before we stride ever onwards; I hope you will forgive me and understand.  Chzz  ►  19:36, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

For my part I am willing to concede that I may have over reacted although as stated above, it was not all Ehrenkater's edits which I had a problem with. In my defence, the article is under review at this moment and has been considerably copy-edited by arguably one of the best (if not one of the belligerent) copy-editors on wiki. So yes, I became a bit protective. Of course I am willing to discuss --Senra (Talk) 19:44, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

See also considerable previous discussion on coprolite here: User talk:Richerman#Ely, Cambridgeshire --Senra (Talk) 19:58, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

I have restored two three of Ehremkater's edits (1, 2 and 3) accidentally removed by Chzz. I still consider the edits made by Ehremkater's here to be contentious. Firstly, your change of wild fowling to wildfowling (my links added here for clarity) changes hunting for food to hunting for sport; secondly, perhaps with a little bit of INOTLIKEIT, the changes to the first paragraph of Economy made the prose harder to read (expansion of Stuntenei to Stuntenei (Stuntney) etc) and the words "With the abbey on an island ..." (my emphasis) are just wrong; thirdly, your promotion of an incidental footnote to body prose introduces an irrelevance to the flow and, more importantly, mixes citations to the wrong prose. Obviously, these are my opinions and obviously, they are up for debate. For now, they remain reverted --Senra (Talk) 20:41, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Pronounciation, etymology

It seems the same as Elie, Fife. Is there any connection, or is it just totally different.--XKQ7 (talk) 19:45, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Notable people

The article's Notable people section conforms to the guidelines found in WP:CITIES. In particular, care should be taken to ensure that any person added to this section is both notable, as recommended in how to write about settlements (notable people) and is also cited to a reliable source --Senra (talk) 13:59, 6 January 2013 (UTC) People removed from the article as failing the above guidelines will be recorded here:

• "Former Norwich City FC left-back Adam Drury, currently playing for Leeds United" was added in this edit and removed as Unsupported assertion .... In any case, although Adam Drury appears notable, he was born in Cottenham, not in Ely --Senra (talk) 13:59, 6 January 2013 (UTC)