Talk:Death of Ellen Greenberg

This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Crime and Criminal Biography Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Death Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DeathWikipedia:WikiProject DeathTemplate:WikiProject DeathDeath articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Philadelphia Low‑importance

	Philadelphia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Philadelphia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Philadelphia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PhiladelphiaWikipedia:WikiProject PhiladelphiaTemplate:WikiProject PhiladelphiaPhiladelphia articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Women

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WomenWikipedia:WikiProject WomenTemplate:WikiProject WomenWikiProject Women articles

Biography

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article has been automatically rated by a bot or other tool because one or more other projects use this class. Please ensure the assessment is correct before removing the `\|auto=` parameter.

Suggestions

Hi. There are two things that I think ought to be done on this article.

First, we should avoid any false equivalence. “Well, some people said it was homicide, but other people said it was suicide.” Yeah, fine, but the people who said it was homicide were CORRECT, while the people who said it was suicide were either lying, misinformed, or naive. There’s no doubt that Ellen Greenberg was murdered.

It’s not even physically possible to tear up your own body THAT badly, because you would’ve already died before you could finish making ALL those stab wounds to yourself. This was no suicide.

Second, we need to mention the man who should’ve been the prime suspect all along: Ellen’s boyfriend, [non-notable person's name redacted]. I am 99% confident that [non-notable person's name redacted] murdered Ellen. (And I’m 100% confident that Ellen was murdered, not died by suicide.) But his name, [non-notable person's name redacted], does not appear even once in this article (as of 3/28/24). That’s kind of a glaring omission.

[non-notable person's name redacted] was the person who made the 911 call (on which he did a really lame job of feigning dismay at his own crime). He was the person who broke down the door and “discovered” Ellen’s corpse. Even if you don’t think he did it, he was certainly still an important enough character in the story that an article written about that story needs to mention him once or twice.

The words “[non-notable person's name redacted]” should appear in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thegoldenconciseencyclopediaofmammals (talk • contribs) 19:05, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The absence of the name of the most obvious suspect's name is noteworthy. Also the fact that both are [ethnoreligious group name redacted]. Also, and I'm not that familiar with Wikipedia protocols, but I know I've seen topics with similar dynamics listed under a banner titled something like "See Also". This Article could include cases like Jeffrey Epstein and Gary Webb.66.25.69.185 (talk) 12:49, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is not in Wikipedia's charter to WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS by deciding whether someone told the truth or when some authority's conclusions were right or wrong in the absence of clear conclusions reached and reported elsewhere (e.g. a final court ruling reported by reliable secondary or tertiary sources). It is also not proper for Wikipedia to cast suspicion on particular non-notable people (especially by name) or to decide whether their religion or ethnicity is relevant (and I frankly don't see that as relevant). I removed the personal name above, replacing it with "non-notable person's name redacted". I also removed the group name, replacing it with "ethnoreligious group name redacted". See also WP:BLPNAME and the edit of 19:56, 17 September 2023 (UTC) by MIDI. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 17:39, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 4 August 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Speedy WP:SNOWball moved with unanimous support per WP:COMMONNAME. (closed by non-admin page mover; initially closed by Denniscabrams and reclosed per instructions at WP:RMCI to remove from WP:RM listing) —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 17:06, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ellen Rae Greenberg → Death of Ellen Greenberg – This article is about the death of Ellen Greenberg, a person who is only WP:NOTABLE for her death. "Rae" also needs to be removed from the article title per WP:COMMONNAME. I could do a more thorough audit of how often "Rae" is used but none of the titles of the nineteen sources cited in this article include it. Dennis C. Abrams (talk) 02:53, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support for obvious reasons, this should be uncontroversial. 203.211.79.225 (talk) 06:34, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. CWC 07:41, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. This article would be clearer with a more descriptive title. Waqar💬 16:13, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom and WP:1E. estar8806 (talk) ★ 21:47, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support as matching standard practice. Pinguinn 🐧 07:44, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

No mention of Shapiro's involvement?

Seems relevant given that he was a frontrunner for the nomination of Dem VP Wikipedia Wonderful 698-D (talk) 11:29, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]