Talk:Elizabeth Birch

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Politics and Government

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
	This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as Low-importance).

United States: Ohio Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Ohio portal This article is supported by WikiProject Ohio.

LGBTQ+ studies

This article is of interest to WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies, which tries to ensure comprehensive and factual coverage of all LGBTQ-related issues on Wikipedia. For more information, or to get involved, please visit the project page or contribute to the discussion.LGBTQ+ studiesWikipedia:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesTemplate:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesLGBTQ+ studies

Women in Business Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women in Business, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles about women in business on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women in BusinessWikipedia:WikiProject Women in BusinessTemplate:WikiProject Women in BusinessWomen in Business
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Elizabeth Birch. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120205021157/http://www.cwu.edu/~diversity/birch.html to http://www.cwu.edu/~diversity/birch.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 13:56, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Elizabeth Birch. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061019221851/http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/birch_e.html to http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/birch_e.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 08:43, 20 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"over her dead body"

I have removed the famous passage where Birch is alleged to have said etc. etc. "over her dead body", since there are serious problems with the sourcing. The only possibly reliable source is this article, which cites no sources though it links to a blog we can't place all that much faith in. The other two links are dead. I've looked all over for a better source, or a source that has commentary on it, but to no avail. We need better sourcing than this one article for such a strong claim. Pinging involved editors Reyne2, Crimson1636, 4.14.233.42. Drmies (talk) 21:29, 2 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Drmies After some googling, some more reliable sources I found: Orlando Weekly [1], Huffington Post [2], American Prospect [3], WHYY-FM [4]. Is that sufficient? 2601:647:4C01:62B3:BDA0:4CB5:34F0:8A54 (talk) 16:50, 3 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I looked at all of them. As far as I'm concerned, all of them fall into the news category, and none of them actually claim that "they were there", so to speak. For instance, this is from an alternative weekly, the Orlando Weekly, which for the quote cites nothing whatsoever; the editorial in HuffPo (HuffPo being already suspect enough to warrant scrutiny for an RS) links to this page with nothing, from some "Edge Media Network"; and the editorial/opinion from The American Prospect links to, first of all something dead, but a search of the WBEZ website brings us here, where the "dead body" is referenced to...guess what. So again, I'm having to go no on all of them. Drmies (talk) 23:48, 3 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It's a bit unrealistic to expect article authors mentioning events decades prior to have personally experienced said events. And requiring eyewitness reports in reliable sources is frankly not realistic for many LGBT news events prior to the turn of the millennium. You also have not explained why you disagree with WHYY, a regional public news media, as a reliable source.

Drmies In addition, it looks like your specific concern is regarding this quotation in particular, but for some reason, you have also removed any mention of Elizabeth Birch's involvement in excluding gender identity from ENDA. The fact that under Elizabeth Birch, the HRC fought for excluding gender rights from ENDA [by specifically excluding trans organizations from their decision-making process] is a documented fact that the modern HRC has apologized for. Here's[[5]] an eyewitness report from a book by Riki Wilchins, for instance. Would it be an acceptable compromise to keep the rest of the passage, and perhaps mention that she has been alleged to make the quote [unless a better source turns up] without passing judgment on the veracity? The fact that multiple reliable sources have used it should at least be indication that the allegation is somewhat common and thus worthy of inclusion. Reyne2 (talk)

For the third time

For the third time, I corrected the libelous material in this article on Elizabeth Birch, falsely claiming that she was opposed to transgender inclusion in HRC's work when she led the organization as Executive Director. That information is entirely false. It was under Birch's leadership, in fact, that HRC became transgender-inclusive, by formally adding gender identity and expression, and transgender people, to its work and mission, by recruiting new transgender staff and volunteer leaders -- for the first time in the organization's history, and across other measures. There are a handful of activists who apparently want to settle a score with her and who insist on rewriting history, but the history and timing and facts are clear, and verifiable. HRC went from a lesbian and gay civil rights organization to a fully LGBT rights organization thanks to, and not despite, Elizabeth's trans-inclusive leadership. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LGBTQhistorybuff (talk • contribs) 02:29, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Also at Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Elizabeth_Birch. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:36, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]