Talk:Electrical outlet tester

Circuit diagram needs correction

The diagram needs series resistors for each neon.

There is an alternative circuit where all 3 neons light under correct conditions. It just uses more resistors. 82.31.66.207 (talk) 01:32, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Not only that, the circuit looks like if the 110/230 switch is placed in the 110v position, and you press the 30mA button, you have a short circuit between line and ground. The circuit diagram pic is badly flawed and should be replaced. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.190.61.253 (talk) 15:18, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

You're right. I have removed the erroneous and hazardous diagram, and have furthermore annotated it in Wikimedia Commons. Reify-tech (talk) 21:20, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Unsourced inaccurate text.

"The most basic job of the outlet tester is to verify that the outlet can provide power to a device plugged into it." This is false. The tester's function is to confirm continuity and polarity, it cannot verify ability to supply power, that requires an impedance tester. This unsourced text keeps being reinserted. That needs to stop. Guy (Help!) 12:05, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

Realistically, if the lights come on after you've finished wiring up a receptacle, you're done. What's an "impedance tester" ? It would be a pathalogical wiring fault that would prevent the receptacle from delivering its rated current, if you've got all the wires on the right screws. Those hoofbeats might be zebras, bu probably aren't. What is the issue with the source? --Wtshymanski (talk) 20:42, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

I just edited away the "can provide power" verbiage, changing it to imply simple continuity instead, saying is connected with a source of voltage. Is OK? Just plain Bill (talk) 20:53, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

It is absolutely in the finest traditions of Wikipedia. I wonder if anyone ever has had the lights come on in a receptacle tester and *not* been able to use the receptacle normally. --Wtshymanski (talk) 23:10, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

As an admin with 13 years and over a hundred thousand edits, I can assure you that it is far from the finest traditions of WP to persisently revert in unsourced personal opinion, especially when it's wrong. My degree is in electrical engineering. I have been ysing socket testers for four decades. Guy (Help!) 00:26, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

Well, your credentials are awesome. So on average, how often does a receptacle tester light up and the outlet is not capable of providing power? And what is an electrical engineer doing running around with an outlet tester - that's work for an electrician. --Wtshymanski (talk) 00:57, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

The reference to edit count etc. is a rebuttal to your claim of "finest traditions". I know Wikipedia policy pretty well. I can say with a high degree of confidence that "I wonder if anyone ever has had the lights come on in a receptacle tester and *not* been able to use the receptacle normally" is not in the "finest traditions" of Wikipedia but is absolutely indicative of personal hypothesis. I can also state that yes, there absolutely have been cases where the tester shows the wiring to be correct but the outlet does not work, and may even be a serious hazard. That is why there are mandatory impedance and insulation tests for installations. I use a Megger MFT1720 for full tests and either a Martindale CP501 or a Socket & See PDL 234 Plus for quicker checks.

Most of the problem here, though, is that the free online sources all assume that you already know this. Wiring requires training and certification in most countries, it's not like some bit of AV kit, there are no real online beginners' guides to which instruments to use. You have to read expensive (often upwards of $50) technical books from the standards bodies. One page of the website you already cited contains exactly my point - for the neon tester it says the purpose of test is "1. Shock hazard; 2. Identity; 3. For hotness, which MIGHT be able to carry load". MIGHT is the operative word. A high resistance connection anywhere along the line will result in a fire risk and not a functional outlet, but will not show up at all on a three-lamp neon tester. As the page says, "the 3-prong receptacle tester [...] can't tell us that a circuit is good in every respect, but they will tell us if a circuit is bad in some respects." OK? Guy (Help!) 19:10, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

Bootleg grounds not restricted to NEMA wiring devices

I don't have access to a UK, Australian, etc. socket - but surely it's possible to connect the ground terminal to the neutral? Just watched a YouTube clip [1] - what stops Buddy from running a piece of 1 mm sq from the earth terminal to the neutral terminal? That's all it takes for a "bootleg" ground. --Wtshymanski (talk) 16:56, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Some bloggers write that bootleg grounds exist in Germany and Switzerland. [[2] --Wtshymanski (talk) 17:18, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Some bloggers, eh? Well, that's compelling. Oh, wait.

German wiring is to DIN VDE 0100, it uses the same cable as UK wiring (all EU countries do, the UK was the last to switch). House wiring uses 6242Y cable with an integrated earth, all new installations are RCD protected. Older installations may indeed contain bodges, or rubber insulation, or fuses instead of MCBs, RCDs and RCBOs, but it's declining rapidly over time.

But you could have saved all this faff by reading the article on bootleg ground, an article you have edited:

In United States building wiring installed with separate neutral and protective ground bonding conductors ( a TN-S network), a bootleg ground (or a false ground) is a connection between the neutral side of a receptacle or light fixture and the ground lug or enclosure of the wiring device.

To the best of my knowledge the only place you find separate wiring in Europe is inside conduit. I don't know enough about US electrical codes to say whether separate-conductor wiring is used, and of so whether it is in conduit or not, in the EU it would have to be. I don't believe any outlet in the EU can be wired without a continuous protective conductor terminated at the consumer unit and connected to the main earth bonding point. Guy (Help!) 21:44, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

It's got nothing to do with separate wiring. There's no question that receptacles wired correctly, under UK, European or NFPA rules, won't have a bootleg ground. But there's nothing saying that a UK outlet can't have its ground pin connected to neutral by an (ill-informed, lazy or malicious installer), and our poor 3-light tester won't be able to tell the difference. The "separate" in that quoted passage means that there is a ground bonding wire and a neutral wire in the same cable - few jurisdictions dictate conduit use, and that's also beside the point. --Wtshymanski (talk) 00:58, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Have you ever seen 6242Y? There is simply no reason why you would do this, and any electrician who did would be in serious trouble. It would require a deliberate act with absolutely no plausible rationale, whereas in US wiring with separate conductors in a TN-S scheme it's a pragmatic solution that would, back in the day, have been seen as reasonable. As I say, the only place you could see this in the EU - and out of North America at all as far as I can see - is in conduit. A clueless person working on metal conduit with the conduit acting as CPC might do this, but the the chances of such a person actually working on a circuit like that are negligible and the installation would fail certification testing anyway.

The article bootleg ground makes it clear this is a North American issue. Guy (Help!) 09:58, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

} Oh, I see. I'm not required to understand how the wire can't ever be hooked up wrong, because it's 6242Y and not NMD. I'm a hopeless muggle. --Wtshymanski (talk) 03:39, 6 January 2019 (UTC)