Talk:Electrical grid

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Section sizes

Section size for Electrical grid (31 sections)
Section name	Byte count	Section total
(Top)	4,244	4,244
Types (grouped by size)	53	12,355
Microgrid	4,491	4,491
Wide area synchronous grid	4,590	4,590
Super grid	3,221	3,221
Components	16	10,219
Generation	619	619
Transmission	3,178	3,178
Substations	2,463	2,463
Electric power distribution	2,477	2,477
Storage	1,466	1,466
Functionalities	23	5,454
Demand	1,164	1,164
Voltage	874	874
Frequency	2,321	2,321
Capacity and firm capacity	723	723
Production	349	349
Failures and issues	1,249	8,723
Brownout	1,018	1,018
Blackout	1,278	1,278
Load shedding	755	755
Black start	3,057	3,057
Obsolescence	1,366	1,366
Trends	12	3,507
Demand response	1,157	1,157
Smart grid	41	41
Grid defection	2,297	2,297
History	9,069	9,069
See also	145	145
References	28	28
External links	525	525
Total	54,269	54,269

Definition and extent of a grid

Is it not an AC network that all operates at the same frequency and all in phase ?
or is the essential characteristic the graph-like structure (rather than tree) with redundant connections ?
Article says UK had a synchronised AC national grid in 1938. National Grid (Great Britain) says regional grids in 1933.
Smart grid#Historical development of the electricity grid says 1886 (first? use of transformers in AC transmission in Great Barrington)
- or is it a network that can accept power from non-adjacent generators ~ 1915 ?
Did the term originate in UK or USA ? (the Electricity (Supply) Act 1926, calls for a "national gridiron" ) - Rod57 (talk) 01:32, 9 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Agree that the article(s) on this subject would benefit from some clarity. I'd propose that what makes a grid a grid, as opposed to just a generator feeding distant consumers, is:

* at its most basic, a network of electrical transmission lines connecting a multiplicity of generating stations to loads over a wide area

* multiple energy sources to work together enabling some generators for base power and some to fire up for peaks

* backup generating capacity to compensate for plant shutdowns; one substation can go off line without destabilizing the entire network.

* demand, supply, reserve margins, etc constantly monitored and managed by grid operators

* frequency and voltage control --Cornellier (talk) 18:05, 18 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Are the sources and loads part of the grid? Chidgk1 (talk) 06:23, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What is this article about vs. electric power distribution and wide area synchronous grid?

The article contains banners (dated to 2009!) saying that the content should be "harmonized with text in Electric power distribution". That would be good but raises the question "what is the difference between "the grid" and electric power distribution and an interconnection (aka wide area synchronous grid). I propose that content in this article that's not in electric power distribution be moved there, and the rest (which wouldn't be much) be merged with wide area synchronous grid. --Cornellier (talk) 21:11, 25 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Replying to stop this being archived off. Anyone any idea why the banner was removed? Any thoughts on the merger suggestion? Chidgk1 (talk) 06:19, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Scope of various grid articles

To mitigate overlap and confusion over the many related articles, I propose this content organization:

Microgrid: the smallest grid, capable of islanding
Wide area synchronous grid
Super grid: WASGs linked by Interconnectors
Electrical grid (this article): everything the above has in common --Cornellier (talk) 18:33, 18 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think, in common i.e. a subset, more a superset coverage of all the above, WP:BROADCONCEPT. GliderMaven (talk) 18:53, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Real world electrical grids are often largely arbitrary lines on the map, except where there's a complete air-gap. Exactly how many grids the United States, Canada or Mexico have for example is rather arguable. GliderMaven (talk) 18:53, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with WP:BROADCONCEPT. As for differentiating the three grid types listed above (Microgrid, Wide area synchronous grid, Super grid), I'd propose working definitions based on functionality, not geography. --Cornellier (talk) 23:55, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I see where you're coming from, but I think in practice super grids are largely or completely defined by their geographical extent, since very high voltage or HVDC links make the most sense economically over long distances and microgrids are usually geographically small. GliderMaven (talk) 04:10, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly excerpts could be used? Chidgk1 (talk) 06:21, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Has any action been taken on this in the meantime? And I agree with User:Chidgk1 that excerpts could be helpful here. EMsmile (talk) 15:34, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've re-arranged the structure a bit and have added an excerpt for smart grid because I assume that "smart grid" is something that will become more important over time and its article improved and updated (hopefully). EMsmile (talk) 21:31, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

New source which might be cited

https://www.economist.com/technology-quarterly/2023-04-08 Chidgk1 (talk) 06:26, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"General Layout" Image Unclear as to What Produces or Consumes Power

While I think this is a great image that gives a nice overview of electrical grids at a glance, I found it was unclear as to which parts were consuming power and which parts were generating it. Of course, one can infer this with common sense, obviously a power plant generates electricity, and residential neighborhoods consume it (minus the wind and solar they might generate).

But I don't think you should have to infer anything or assume common sense in a Wiki article. So, I think it would be a great idea to amend the image to include symbols for each item to indicate whether it consumes or generates. Something simple like an arrow maybe. Or a plus sign. Or just the word "generator" or "consumer".

I was going to add this as a reply to the original talk page about this image. But it hasn't been active since 2010, aside from an irrelevant reply. So, I figured this would be seen more here. 2607:FEA8:99E0:61D0:91AA:C76C:D65:FBE (talk) 15:14, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also the diagram needs a big battery Chidgk1 (talk) 06:55, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. The diagram is too complex for the lead. I've swapped it with a different one from the main text. Seems like a better, simpler diagram to me. EMsmile (talk) 14:24, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Removed content about distributed generation

I've removed this content about distributed generation because it was poorly sourced, not encyclopedic, outdated and is now included in the "smart grid" section that follows.

Distributed generation: With everything interconnected, and open competition occurring in a free market economy, it starts to make sense to allow and even encourage distributed generation (DG). Smaller generators, usually not owned by the utility, can be brought on-line to help supply the need for power. The smaller generation facility might be a home-owner with excess power from their solar panel or wind turbine. It might be a small office with a diesel generator. These resources can be brought on-line either at the utility's behest, or by owner of the generation in an effort to sell electricity. Many small generators are allowed to sell electricity back to the grid for the same price they would pay to buy it.

As the 21st century progresses, the electric utility industry seeks to take advantage of novel approaches to meet growing energy demand. Utilities are under pressure to evolve their classic topologies to accommodate distributed generation. As generation becomes more common from rooftop solar and wind generators, the differences between distribution and transmission grids will continue to blur. In July 2017 the CEO of Mercedes-Benz said that the energy industry needs to work better with companies from other industries to form a "total ecosystem", to integrate central and distributed energy resources (DER) to give customers what they want. The electrical grid was originally constructed so that electricity would flow from power providers to consumers. However, with the introduction of DER, power needs to flow both ways on the electric grid, because customers may have power sources such as solar panels.^[1] EMsmile (talk) 09:48, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Randolph, Kevin (21 July 2017). "In order to integrate the grid, disparate industries need to work together". Daily Energy Insider. Retrieved 3 August 2017.

EMsmile (talk) 09:48, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2 numbers seemed to be conflicking

"Although electrical grids are widespread, as of 2016, 1.4 billion people worldwide were not connected to an electricity grid" and "had no access to grid electricity in 2017, down from 1.2 billion in 2010." Can anybody help to clarify? Thanks. ThomasYehYeh (talk) 23:45, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education assignment: Quantum Information Science and Engineering

This article is currently the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 19 August 2024 and 6 December 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ocarleton (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Ocarleton (talk) 03:24, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Randolph, Kevin (21 July 2017). "In order to integrate the grid, disparate industries need to work together". Daily Energy Insider. Retrieved 3 August 2017.

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