Talk:Egyptian Ratscrew

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Slaps

This game is known as slaps where I'm from. Any others know of this name? Monarch75 16:47, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

I've written an article named 'Slapjack', but I can't get the link at the beginning of this article to work. I first tried clearing my browser cache, but it didn't help; Slapjack's 'What links here' page doesn't link to this article, so that pretty clearly indicates that the problem's not on my end. When I tried going to the edit page for this article and looking at a preview without changing anything, I got a working link, so I tried saving, but that didn't help either. Any ideas? -- Djinn112 03:31, Feb 10, 2004 (UTC)

I see the same problem. There's nothing wrong with your markup. This looks like a bug in the wiki software. Zack 03:46, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)

'Egyptian Ratscrew' has since appeared on Slapjack's 'What links here', but the rest of the problem seems to not be going away. I made a redirect to Slapjack at SlapJack and changed the link here to that; it doesn't look very nice, but it's at least functional now. -- Djinn112 04:04, Feb 10, 2004 (UTC)

Page titles are supposed to be case insensitive -- you shouldn't even be able to create SlapJack if Slapjack exists. This is worrisome. Zack 04:06, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)

It's been a few months, but I just noticed this thread again and wanted to give it closure: the problem has since gone away, and the link has been changed to 'Slapjack'. -- Djinn112 00:39, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Ratscrew

Egyptian Ratscrew is particularly well known amongst young Unitarian Universalists? WTF? Can someone corroborate this? [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 00:20, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Well, I can't exactly compare its proportional popularity between young UU's and the general population, but I suppose that's true. It seems a little gratuitous, and there's certainly overlap between "schoolchildren" and "YRUU," but whatever. It's probably true, and if there actually has been some role played by Jews in popularizing the game, that's kind of cool.

I was wondering if it would be acceptable for me to list my ways of cheating at this game.

altenate

I learned a different vertion of this game. Where all there was were the normal j-1 Q-2 K-3 A-4 and dobbles and sandwitches (ex: 4-7-4) But in the vertion i learned the 10 nulled out every thing. Should there be seperate vertions for the different vertions (70.244.114.211 21:52, 22 April 2006 (UTC))

Crack

This game is known as "Crack" in southwest PA. Should I list this on the article page? Denik1313 06:05, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

YES!!!!

Indian War

I know this game under the name Indian War, played in North London.

Also, after an Ace, you have 4 chances to play a Four; King–3 chances for a Three; Queen–2 chances for a Two; Jack–1 chance for a Ten. Of course, all picture cards can be cancelled by another picture. —anskas 17:13, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Extinction

I've played a variation of this game called 'Extinction' in Northern California. It uses incredibly complex rules. I'll post what I remember of them. VoidTalker 16:59, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Too many names?

Is it just me, or has the list of names gotten ridiculously out of hand? I doubt more than a handful of these are used outside of a small group of people or geographic area. I suggest that the article should just list the few most common names, and mention that additional variants and more obscure names exist. Anyone want to hazard a guess at what the 5 most common names are? MOXFYRE (contrib) 03:55, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I've never heard of any names except Egyptian Ratscrew/Rat Screw, Jews on the run... Hoogli 23:17, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Likewise! I gather some of them are used in Australia, the U.K., and other English-speaking countries... but I get the feeling that some kid just sat around and made up half of these. I can't believe they're all in common use. MOXFYRE (contrib) 02:10, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

I have tried to remove some of the names that seemed dubious. I have also removed some names I was unable to find reference for, but kept some unreferenced names that I've heard in usage or seemed likely as euphemisms/alternate names. (Except for the name 'cats'; I didn't know how to search for that name without coming up with a lot of domestic cat related material.) Osho-Jabbe 04:14, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Looks a lot better now, I think. Thanks! MOXFYRE (contrib) 21:57, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I have again gone through but this time with the criteria that if a name was a phonetic corruption of the original name, or it used a different country name and didn't come up much on a search engine, or it would be hard to disprove it was a name (it is a common word, or the title of a movie etc.) and didn't come up much on a search engine, or had an animal other than a rat and didn't come up much with a search engine, or seemed to have a completely unrelated name (possibly with profanities) and it didn't show up on a search engine; it was dropped from the list. This hopefully gives the list only common alt. names, euphemisms, and dysphemisms. --Osho-Jabbe 05:33, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

ERS in France

Does anybody know how to link pages with matching international pages of a different name? I recently discovered that this same game is played in France, under the name Bataille Corse (located here http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataille_corse). The variation that they play in Normandy, France uses doubles, sandwiches, and two cards in a row that add up to ten.

Sadly enough, the kid beat me... and I consider myself pretty good at the game. Not being used to the ten rule didn't help, of course... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.61.23.251 (talk) 22:02, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Random chance: Very high?

I object to the infobox's claim that there is a very high role of random chance in the game. In my experience, the player who can slap the fastest and most accurately wins the game, regardless of what cards he was dealt. Does anyone disagree? --66.41.81.111 (talk) 05:01, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree that in my experience the winner is the one who spots slaps the fastest, however that constitutes original research, and so, unless you can find a reliable source that backs the assertion up, you cannot insert that opinion in.Osho-jabbe (talk) 20:48, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Wait a second, where did the opinion from the infobox come from? I don't think I've ever seen a beginner come even close to beating someone experienced so I don't see how the chance can be *very* high —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.176.55.38 (talk) 20:06, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

I added a "citation needed" thing to it for now. However, I tend to agree that the faster, more experienced player win far more often than not.--71.109.165.161 (talk) 04:56, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

I disagree with Osho-jabbe that a citation is needed. That the more skilled person will triumph more often is collective knowledge, not original research. Since there have been no (documented) case studies regarding the randomness of an ERS game, the implication of randomness is what needs the citation, not the fact that skilled people win more. I vote it just needs to be removed. All card games involve some amount of randomness, but the majority of card game wikiarticles contain no "random chance" indicator so to say this game needs a measure of chance is to say the Poker article needs one as well. At the very least lower the level. How can ERS, which involves skill and speed, be rated Very High, yet a game such as War, which is COMPLETELY chance and nothing else, be rated simply as High? FinalStrife7 (talk) 10:16, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Be bold! I've eliminated it for now. If someone has a reason why it should be there at all, as well as a rational for what they classify the randomness of the game as, feel free to add it back in. 71.109.173.5 (talk) 13:54, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

I definitely agree. It does not need a citation - it can easily be inferred by reading the rules of the game in the article itself that winning in the game is based on roughly 25% randomization (which, really, only constitute unbeatable face cards) and 75% correct slapping reaction. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Keron Cyst (talk • contribs) 21:12, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Any concerns to large general revision?

I have made an incredibly large revision to every aspect of this entire article. I put in many specific notes that were lacking in the previous, such as whose turn it is after particular events in the game, and bundled all the variations together instead of leaving them adrift in the sections. I also opened up more sections, creating a whole Strategies section out of one idea that was in another section, and made it a very strong point (since, well, I consider it a major unique aspect of Egyptian Ratscrew) that eliminated players can resurrect themselves in-game, by focusing attention on it as its own section. Among numerous other tidbits. I removed some redundant language that was present in the old Variations section, but in the act of checking for redundancy would prefer to second-guess myself by stating that I may possibly have removed one or two things that should have remained in there. If anyone would like to review my work, please feel free! --Keron Cyst (talk) 21:14, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Absolutely. Great work on this article. Any reference or a more suitable picture would also come in handy. If you wanna take a look at the other card games of this family, that would be marvelous too. Once again, thank you ! Krenakarore (talk) 22:39, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

ERS-SRE

Students at College of Southern Maryland made an alternative to the game, where an aditional ruling is two seperate styles of game, ERS - like normal and SRE -where you want to get rid of all your cards. The game starts based on the color of the first card played, Red is SRE, black is ERS. During gameplay a marriage double (queen and king) switches the game to SRE from ERS or vise-versa, after the cards have been taken.

SRE

The object of the Game SRE is to get rid of all your cards the game ends when a player gets rid of all their cards.

• IF a player has no cards during ERS and the game switches to SRE, then they DO NOT win and they may not slap back in until the game switches back to ERS.

This is exactly like ERS except some changes: The Last player to slap the pile takes the pile (instead of the first) When a player fails to put down a face card, they take the pile (instead of the previous player) On a miss-slap, every player gives the miss-slapper a card from the top of their deck(instead of the miss-slapper discarding) On a marriage slap, the last player to slap it, gets the pile and then the game switches to ERS and starts on their turn. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.62.49.254 (talk) 18:59, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

ORIGINS

I learned this game, by the name "Ancient Egyptian Rat Killer," in the summer of 1988 as a member of the Fox River Valley Lutheran Youth Band, based in Appleton, Wisconsin, but including members from several parts of Wisconsin, including the mentioned place of origin, Eau Claire. There was an older individual in the group, however, from New London, Wisconsin who claimed to have invented the game (or so I recall). In short, this game dates back to at least the mid 1980s, and in my experience "Egyptian Ratscrew" (and other even more vulgar names that I won't mention here) were later truncations of the original name (made by the young punks, of course). The only rules difference from those stated was that there were no slaps on "sandwiches," only doubles. Pmartens (talk) 03:26, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

I could have sworn it was made up by a group of American AFS exchange students on their way to Denmark in summer of 1988 (interesting that it is the same time-frame as Pmartens). In particular, a guy I think from the Chicago area (also same general region of the U.S.) who couldn't quite remember some similar card game, put together the rules of slapping on doubles, laying down cards against face cards (not aces), and a false slap being punished by dolling out your next 4 cards. The name Egyptian Rat-Screw seemed to be made up on the spot, just to sound exotic and vicious. No jewellery on your slapping hand was added after a game or two because one girl with a lot of rings caused several bloody knuckles. Slapping in didn't occur to us until someone new wanted join mid-game. Several of us continued playing it obsessively over our year in Denmark, teaching it to Danish friends, and eventually bringing it back to old friends in the states afterward.Mycobiont (talk) 05:16, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Pmartens, this story is suspect. Beggar-My-Neighbor is from the mid-19th century. Slapjack was played during World War II and probably earlier. Did it cross your mind your band camp buddy from your teens was puffing his originality to fit in with his new church group? Your comments on the name origin bely a certain POV that considers a game (that was created in at least the 1970s) must have some puritanical developer. WP isn’t the place to warp or speculate too freely upon history. Jgalt87 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:25, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Photo?

What happened to the photo? --Alex.rosenheim (talk) 16:28, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Variations

Anyone adding new variations, particularly slap conditions to the article would be advised to look at http://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Egyptian_Ratscrew&oldid=229261259 - at that point, the article contained a huge amount of folk knowledge including an UNO ruleset for the game, many variations and playstyles.

Somebody removed it via WP:BOLD; I don't know if there is a more suitable place for it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.164.25 (talk) 19:25, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Ways of Slapping

Through the several times I've played this game, no matter what name people call it (Egyptian Rat Trap, Egyptian Rat Slap, Egyptian Slap Trap, etc.) I've played by several various ways you can slap.

• Pairs
• Sandwiches
• Marriages (King and Queen of Same suit next to each other)
• Straights (3 or more, aces can be high or low, but not between K and 2)
• Flushes (3 or more)
• Wildcards (typically Jokers)

71.205.142.20 (talk) 21:31, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

As i learned it, triplets (which can only ever happen if a pair goes unslapped) are considered an instant win when slapped, except for 666, which is a loss for everybody, and mandates burning the entire pack of cards (pyromania). 2603:3006:1081:1C00:D2:E980:6DB1:F0F8 (talk) 18:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Naming

I have sought to begin addressing the lack of citations flagged up by the header tag by removing the plethora of unsourced names attributed to this game and citing those that remain. I would therefore ask the unnamed editor who keeps removing this properly cited material and replacing it with unsourced text at this article to refrain or it may be construed as WP:DISRUPTIVE EDITING. If you can improve the article by adding text based on reliable sources, go ahead. However, if the number of reliably cited names grows, it may be better to create a short section to list the less common ones. Thank you. Bermicourt (talk) 09:31, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

I think it’d be great if this article didn’t perpetuate what is undoubtedly an offensive name. Reversing the name implies that the name Slap is culturally preferred, which I think encyclopedic sources have a responsibility to influence. While Egyptian Ratscrew is the more-common name, it is absolutely a problematic name. I think of course it still should be included (directly after the non-offensive term), but by reducing it in its prominence, the term Slap would have a chance at becoming the more prevalent term. This change would cost very little, because the title of the page can continue to be Egyptian Ratscrew, not unlike how the Chinese Checkers page is titled and its leading sentence is structured. ~~~~ Louie Mantia (talk) 18:17, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia is supposed to reflect the world as it is, not as we would like it to be (even if editors could agree on that). But I'm not even the logic stands. How do we know Slap is culturally preferred? In which culture? Why would anyone be offended by the name? There's nothing wrong with being Egyptian and "ratscrew" is a nonsense word anyway. Bermicourt (talk) 07:14, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

I’m afraid I won’t be able to convince you. “Egyptian Ratscrew,” as a name, has no known etymology (as far as I can tell). It, like Chinese checkers, is likely to have been named as to appear “exotic.” I find that problematic to perpetuate in an educational resource like Wikipedia. If you would want to spend your efforts keeping the name “Egyptian Ratscrew” alive, knock yourself out. Louie Mantia (talk) 15:24, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

We don't know the origin of most card game names, but trying to eliminate them because we WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT is not encyclopaedic. Create your own website if you want to champion new names for old games. Personally I don't like the name, so I'm certainly not "knocking myself out keeping it alive", I'm simply following the overwhelming majority of sources. Bermicourt (talk) 06:59, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

¯\ (°‿っ°) /¯ Live your life. Louie Mantia (talk) 13:40, 30 June 2021 (UTC)