Talk:Economy of the State of Palestine

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On 5 October 2012, it was proposed that this article be moved to Economy of the Palestinian Authority. The result of the discussion was not moved.

2006 MERGE discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Merge. Economy of the West Bank should be merged here, as this article links together economies of the West Bank and of Gaza strip, which would be the support of any future Palestinian state. Tazmaniacs 14:55, 14 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Makes sense. SeattliteTungsten 21:01, 14 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Negation. No, not at all. Palestinian economy cannot be considered completely related to the Economy of the West Bank.

Disagree. The Economy of the West Bank should include the combined production and trade of Jews and Arabs living in this region, while Palestinian economy naturally ignores any Jewish contribution to developing industry and trade in this area (previously included Gush Katif. --Shuki 22:21, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Keeps it tidier. Disagree with Shuki, if you add it then it won't ignore Jewish contribution. Pockets23 23:56, 12 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Hi, I just wanted to say that this is good, but suggest a few improvements. First, I think it is important to note clearly how tied the Palestinian economy is to the Israeli economy. I would have to search for a source for the statistics, but around 90% of exports are either to - or via Israel. Almost all imports are controlled directly or indirectly by Israeli business interests. Hence, there has been severe pressure on many Palestinian businesses since the Intifada due to Israeli businesses withdrawing from further work. Second, the Statistics section does not mention the Quarry/Stone industry which produces one of the main international export products worldwide. Again much is sold to Israeli businesses which then resale around the world, but some companies are starting to sell direct. In my view, the Palestinian economy can only be sustained if it is able to find customers outwith of Israel. JNTurner 10:33, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

needs clean up and direction

The article, especially after Tazmaniacs' edit, is not structured well at all. I'll refrain from slapping a cleanup template on it. People might think that it is a POV move by me. --Shuki 22:25, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, there is very little deta available on this topic. It (the toic) is unique in various ways. I think for a clean-up it needs to be reduced quite a bit. --bandishhh

All the numbers need to be sourced. If something is PPP, the relevant year must be indicated. I can't find GDP info from PWT 6.2 and other sources don't agree. Perhaps when I have better numbers I'll add my changes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.162.51.163 (talk) 23:27, 30 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the line "Nowhere else in the world is there such a great difference in income between two neighbouring countries." North and South Korea are neighbouring countries with similar differences in gbp per capita. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.152.150.227 (talk) 14:57, 18 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

mentioning of Mellanox

I realize that it's nice to hear about, but it seems like the company is planning to hire a mere 15-20 individuals. this is an article regarding a country, why is it mentioned? 87.68.67.167 (talk) 20:01, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Figure Check and Split

I had a look at the GDP figures and they are highly questionable and unsourced. I did a quick edit with sources but would welcome anyone having a look at the figures. For example, the GDP and per capita figures are given in PPP without any indicators of it being so, which makes the information highly misleading. This has been fixed.

As well, the statistics should be split between Gaza and the West Bank or the average is highly misleading due to the immense difference in GDP per capita between each other as well as against neighbouring nations.

Economy of the Palestinian Territories

Hi Greyshark, did you discuss this move or make any attempt to gain consensus prior to moving this page [1]. If not I am going to revert, because I don't think the revert is appropriate and you need to discuss and gain consensus first. Dlv999 (talk) 11:11, 3 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please open the discussion on the issue in the talk page of the Economy of the Palestinian Authority, not on my personal talk page, thank you. I moved it here meanwhile.Greyshark09 (talk) 11:20, 3 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the reason i moved the page - see this [2]. I think that if there is a Ministry of the Palestinian economy in the Palestinian Authority, and not the Ministry of the Palestinian economy in the Palestinian territories, the article should be in accordance to that. Any reason why not?Greyshark09 (talk) 11:20, 3 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Palestinian Authority is an administrative organization it does not have an economy. The Palestinian Territories is a defined geographic entity thus it has an economy that has been described by various RS. If you look at the remit of the PA Ministry of Economy [3] it includes both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

On a more general note, I think you have misunderstanding about what the PA is and what the Palestinian Territories are, which is causing problems among a number of articles. See this pretty standard definition from the NYT[4]: "The Palestinian Authority was created by the 1993 Oslo peace accords between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization. It was meant to be a provisional government of the occupied territories in Gaza and the West Bank, which would eventually be replaced by a sovereign Palestinian state after a final settlement was reached with Israel."

Note the PA is the government of the Occupied Territories in Gaza and the West Bank. It is not itself a territory, or geographical entity - thus it does not have an economy nor any other attribute of a geographical entity - it is merely a administrative organization formed to govern a geographical entity - the Palestinian Territories. Dlv999 (talk) 11:30, 3 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

PA is no longer the government of the Gaza Strip. The Gaza Strip is governed by Hamas administration since 2007.Greyshark09 (talk) 11:57, 3 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Palestinian Authority is a geopolitical entity, just like Iraqi Kurdistan, having ministries, banks, passports, international relations (some recognize PA as the State of Palestine). Palestinian territories is a purely geographic term relating to Gaza Strip and West Bank.Greyshark09 (talk) 11:57, 3 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There are 281,000 sources on "Economy of the Palestinian Authority" (here are some - [5],[6],[7],[8]); there are 193,000 sources on "Economy of the Palestinian territories" and 32,600 results on "Economy of the occupied Palestinian territories". There is a clear preference to use "economy of PA".Greyshark09 (talk) 11:57, 3 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Did you even look at those links?

[9] - Repeatedly refers to the "Occupied Palestinian Territory", "economic growth in the Occupied Palestinian Territory", "integration of the Palestinian Occupied Territory (OPT) into the global economy". The only mention of your search term was this "Hazem Shunnar, the Assistant Deputy Minister of the Ministry of National Economy of the Palestinian Authority, said...". Not a reference to the "Economy of the Palestinian Authority" at all but one to "the Ministry of National Economy of the Palestinian Authority". I think this highlights the problem with drawing OR conclusions from google searches without looking at the context in which words and phrases were used. Dlv999 (talk) 12:29, 3 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I guess this will not get us anywhere (i see you have already reverted my rename), will you agree on an official rename procedure to resolve our dispute?Greyshark09 (talk) 19:45, 3 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Of course. If there is a consensus for the move I will happily abide by it. My personal view is that thus far the case has not been made. Dlv999 (talk) 07:54, 4 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, lets' do the rename vote.Greyshark09 (talk) 12:31, 4 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Rename (2012)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was not moved. --BDD (talk) 16:35, 12 October 2012 (UTC) (non-admin closure)[reply]

Economy of the Palestinian territories → Economy of the Palestinian Authority – There are certain disrapancies between the article and its content, which is a result of WP:SYNTH. Greyshark09 (talk) 07:09, 5 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

All Palestinian institutions are managed by the Palestinian National Authority, including the Palestinian Ministry of National Economy [10], Bank of Palestine (located in Ramallah). The economical matters of the Palestinian areas in West Bank are almost entirely managed by the PNA. In addition, there is a clear preference on the term of "Economy of the Palestinian Authority" [11] over the term "Economy of the Palestinian territories" [12]. Last - relaiable sources are relating to Palestinian Authority when talking on the Palestinian economy, including issues of international aid and internal economic issues - see "The Action Plan concluded with the Palestinian Authority set up the agenda of the economic and political cooperation with the EU.", "Market economy of the Palestinian Authority", "G-7 Statement Regarding the Economy of the Palestinian Authority", "...virtually shutting down the economy of the Palestinian Authority by impeding normal business activity". I herewith propose to rename this article to "Economy of the Palestinian Authority" accordingly per understanding on rename procedure with use @Dlv (issues related to Gaza Strip will be moved to "Economy of Gaza" or "Economy of the Hamas administration").Greyshark09 (talk) 07:09, 5 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - There is no discrepancy between the article title and its content. What Greyshark is proposing is not a name change, but a change of topic for the article. The Palestinian Territories are a defined geographical area and it makes sense to have an article discussing the economy of that area - which is a topic covered by RS and deserving of an article. See E.g [13], [14], [15], [16], [17]Per capita GDP in the Palestinian Territories, with a combined population of just over 4 million, is $1,500 a year.; Ajluni, who was born in the United States and is the scion of a Palestinian family from Ramallah, has been studying the economy of the occupied Palestinian territories for the past 20 years.; Economy of the Palestinian territories, [18]; since 1967, Israel has controlled the economy of the Palestinian territories, restricting movement of people and goods in and out of the territories, collecting excise taxes.

Of course the PA exists and is discussed by sources - it is an administrative organization set up in 1993 to provisionally administer the Palestinian Territories prior to the formation of a Palestinian State. As an administrative organization the PA has a "Ministry of National Economy", whose responsibility it is to administer the economy of the Palestinian Territories (the topic of this article). Greyshark's own source [19] clearly shows that this ministry is responsible for the economy of the Palestinian Territories including the Gaza strip. Greshark's suggestion to break off the Gaza economy into a separate article is contradicted by his own source. A source he cites [20] mentioning the Palestinian Authority as the administrative organization of the "Occupied Palestinian Territories" does not support his assertion that the Palestinian Authority is itself a geopolitical entity with an economy. Similarly, the The UN document is discussing the situation in the "Occupied Palestinian Territories" (Gaza and the West Bank), so how does this support breaking up the article along the lines GS has suggested?

Greyshark's google hits don't mean anything because they don't take into account the quality of the sources or the contest in which the term is used. Most of the hits are not referring to the "Economy of the Palestinian Authority" but to the "Minister/Ministry of National Economy of the Palestinian Authority" whose responsibility is the entire Palestinian National economy including Gaza (see above link) so cannot be use to justify the break up the article into as Greyshark is suggesting. Finally, there are more google hits for the search terms "economy of the occupied palestinian territories" [21] and "economy of the occupied palestinian territories"[22] than there is for "economy of the palestinian authority"[23]. Dlv999 (talk) 09:13, 5 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, the infobox title "Economy of the Palestinian territories" is WP:SYNTH joining the economies of Gaza Strip under Hamas [24] and West Bank under PNA [25], to show a synthetic "Palestinian territories" economy. The only reason PNA Ministry of Economy have Gaza Strip mentioned in website is because they don't recognize the break away of Hamas, now controlling the economy of Gaza [26]. Economy of the oPt can of course relate to the period pre-1993, but the article clearly concentrates on the post-1993 period, involving the PNA.Greyshark09 (talk) 11:24, 5 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I can suggest to alternatively keep this article on the pre-1993 economy of oPt, and create another "Economy of the PNA" and move there most of the material of this article.Greyshark09 (talk) 11:26, 5 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Criticizing individual instances of sourcing in the article is not an argument for saying there is no justification or sourcing for the article topic as a whole. There are plenty of sources that discuss the topic of this article as I have shown. You keep repeating your own opinion that the economy of the Palestinian Territories is only relevant pre-1993, but you offer no evidence. All of the sources I have provided are recent sources post 1993. You seem to be ignoring the sources and instead advocating your own opinion.

An alternative suggestion: If you think there is enough material for individual articles on the West Bank and Gaza economies I have no problem with splitting them off per WP:SPLIT provided this article remains as the parent with the material from the daughter articles summarized and linked. Dlv999 (talk) 11:58, 5 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, there already is Economy of Gaza article. If we could settle on Economy of the Palestinian Authority instead of "Economy of the West Bank" (which should include both economies of PNA and Israeli settlements in Judea and Samaria area), then we can settle this, but i guess you are still against the "Economy of the Palestinian Authority" article.Greyshark09 (talk) 09:05, 7 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics (an arm of the PA), all of their published economic data and indices covers the Palestinian Territory. See e.g. [27], [28], [29], [30], [31]. Dlv999 (talk) 13:43, 5 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Since Palestinian Authority (or Hamas) are not socialist command economies controlling the overwhelming amount of economic activity in either West Bank or Gaza, it's not relevant. Even if they did, the black market usually makes up a large part of economy (and probably does anyway, i.e., avoiding taxes and/or Israeli restrictions). Historical info should be included anyway when someone wants to do it. CarolMooreDC 16:31, 5 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This argument is not weightful, because for example South Sudan - a fully decentralized (or socialist command if you like) economy is described under the article Economy of South Sudan (economy of the geopolitical entity named South Sudan).Greyshark09 (talk) 09:02, 7 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Your comparison doesn't make sense. Economy of South Sudan is same concept as Economy of Palestinian Territories, the name I support. And FYI, decentralized is not necessarily socialist, and certainly rarely state socialist. Usually it means free market. CarolMooreDC 20:59, 7 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose—"Authority" and "territories" are quite different. Tony (talk) 07:53, 6 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This article is about the economy of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, i.e. the Palestinian territories. The PNA is a government, it does not have an economy. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 09:53, 10 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

See Palestinian government of June 2007 for the Palestinian government. PNA is an entity.Greyshark09 (talk) 21:54, 10 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Alculy that's the June 2007 government, the main Palestinian government article is at Palestinian government (it's currently a broad-scope disambig tough). From Palestinian National Authority "The Palestinian Authority is the administrative organization, established to govern parts of the West Bank and Gaza Strip". Organization (or entity) to govern, government, same difference. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 22:57, 10 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

My point stands. The PNA is an entity to govern parts of the WB/GS, it is not the WB/GS itself and does not have an economy. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 22:59, 10 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Marriage in the Palestinian territories which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 04:30, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 20:14, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relevant sources for this article

These two relatively recent sources should be used for this article. I might get around to doing this, but anyone else is welcome to start:

Kingsindian ♝♚ 10:31, 11 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Picture - CGI???

Er why is the picture to illustrate this a CGI render of a building?--81.98.162.50 (talk) 17:49, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 14 February 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved - after two listing periods, no opposition with any valid reason, and three supports with the reasoning that economy articles should be at the nation state name. (non-admin closure) — Amakuru (talk) 11:41, 7 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Economy of the Palestinian territories → Economy of the State of Palestine – Please place your rationale for the proposed move here. GreyShark (dibra) 18:39, 14 February 2016 (UTC) --Relisted. — Amakuru (talk) 19:42, 28 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

support Current name is outdated and the two terms pretty much coincide qua territory. --Qualitatis (talk) 17:09, 27 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Close no rationale presented -- 70.51.46.39 (talk) 05:46, 1 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The rationale is that an economy usually is attributed to a state. The territories are currently recognized as the State of Palestine by the vast majority of the world population, including China, India and Indonesia. --Qualitatis (talk) 13:01, 1 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support Per the above. AusLondonder (talk) 18:03, 2 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support Per Qualitatis. Oncenawhile (talk) 06:37, 3 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Uncited opinion

This line "Unemployment rates in the Palestinian economy led about 100,000 Palestinians to work in the Israeli economy sphere." is simply an opinion not a facr. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.127.22.45 (talk) 21:16, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Poor lead

The lead ought to do a better job of explaining that this is an article about a fictional place. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.203.29.54 (talk) 14:09, 7 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 January 2020

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Remove the following sentence under "Currency": "Since 2006, Israel has also maintained control of Palestinian monetary and foreign exchange policy by destroying foreign exchange shops in the West Bank and Gaza.[61]".

This is unfortunately unbalanced, misleading and plain false. Source 61 simply does not say this. Thermodynamixxx (talk) 14:50, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Done The claim failed verification. A most, the source cited documented a one-time event and not an explicit long-term monetary policy. Thank you for pointing it out. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 16:10, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Merge

Propose to merge List of regions of Palestine by Human Development Index to Economy of the State of Palestine. The source article is a newly created stub and would be much better within the article and provide more info to readers. We typically do not have separate articles for such small lists.GreyShark (dibra) 06:42, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support, seems logical.Selfstudier (talk) 11:58, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Article has been updated and is to a standard of other similar articles. Kind Regards, AnthonyIreland (talk) 12:32, 29 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

In view of stub update, I think we can consider this request as concluded without the need for a formal close, I will remove the tags.Selfstudier (talk) 12:44, 29 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 March, 2022

Remove Counterpunch and replace it with a more reliable source. The statement may/may not be true, but a better source is needed if true. User:Theophilus Andronicus (talk) 3:45, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 October 2023

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- ! Unemployment in Gaza and the West Bank^[1] ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Dilku811 (talk) 10:40, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 10:53, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Isreal's blame

I think the article needs to be a bit revisited and improved when it comes to isreal's role in effecting in the economy, it's very important, especially now... Thoughts? TheEOBD (talk) 16:06, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

^ Cite error: The named reference Unemployment and economic sectors was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[Unemployment_and_economic_sectors-1] Cite error: The named reference Unemployment and economic sectors was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

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