Talk:Duncan Campbell (artist)

Independent.ie reference

I have removed a contentious reference on the grounds of the news item consisting of deprecatory hack-style journalism from an ultimately unreliable source. Moreover, what the artist "stands to inherit" (which is not at all preordained) is his personal and private business and the source conflates a potential inheritance with current wealth/income in the context of his receipt of legitimately-won prize money. The object of the news item is clearly to generate gossip and possibly to commit character assassination of the artist and/or call into question the reputation of the Turner Prize. I'm sorry but we must be more careful when building a BLP for reasons of libel and also basic respect. It is the responsibility of all contributors to ensure that the material posted on Wikipedia is not defamatory. Please do not undo my change or otherwise reinstate this reference (as has happened twice before). Thanks. Angry Candy (talk) 10:28, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

You have made a number of assertions in a potentially inappropriate tone. The Irish Independent is, in fact, a generally reliable reference source, not "ultimately unreliable" - and you are casting aspersions on the journalist involved, and drawing your own conclusions as to their intent. You also do not need to lecture the community on the principles of a BLP, which are widely understood. Of course, even a proper source can have material we don't need, or contain errors, but you need to make your case respectfully, not making allegations like "The object of the news item is clearly to generate gossip and possibly to commit character assassination" - and no one gets to make demands as to what other editors do, except clearly in line with policy. This case bears study, notably of this article, which, on a quick reading, seems fairly uncontentious. SeoR (talk) 20:40, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

I've read the article twice now, and I am mystified by the allegations - in what way can one get from a recitation of facts (about a family well-known in Ireland), to potential character assassination..? The facts recited boil down to: (i) the artists's parents are entrepreneurs who sold a company for 64.5m Euro, (ii) some history of said company, and (iii) the father is an artist (a sculptor based at least partly in Howth, as I recall); the artist's own living circumstances are not discussed, nor any allegations made. I see no reason not to restore the reference, but will leave that to others. What I will try to do is to expand the article a bit, as it's pretty skeletal as yet. SeoR (talk) 21:19, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi. Sorry if I had a tone but you certainly did your best to match it. And I'm sorry if you remain "mystified" by the obvious hatchet job. This aside, the facts you boil out of the article are acceptably NPOV. If that's what we're adding to Wikipedia, then there's no problem. The phrasing as it was before focused on his personal inheritance and being an "heir" to a "fortune". Your changes have improved the article no end. Thank you. Angry Candy (talk) 11:42, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

You're welcome. And sorry if the tone slipped. Describing a routine bio piece as a “hack job”, and demanding that fellow editors do (not) do something seemed a little pushy, but I accept that you had good intent. I think I might guess what concerned you - some potential implication that the artist was not genuinely in need of the prize money? - when he may well have no share of family wealth. But I think that’s a stretched reading, and the fact of his family circumstances is something any competent biographer would pick up and include. I have library-ordered additional references and will try to expand further on the most important part, about his art. He’s a long time around now, and at least some further key shows should be included, even better some proper reflection on his style and interests. Thanks for promoting this, SeoR (talk) 11:53, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

References