Talk:Dublin/Archive 2

This is an archive of past discussions about Dublin. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Crime

Where is the section about Dublin's crime problems? Especially as regards gangs, particular estates/areas that are almost no-go, and recent high profile incidents (shootings, tiger kidnappings, gang feuds, drive-bys, etc). There was even an incident of a car chase and shooting (while driving) on the M50 a number of months back - like something out of an action movie.

Unsurprisingly, Limerick's Wikipedia article already has a detailed "Crime" section.

zoney ♣ talk 18:14, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Zoney, there isn't any crime in Dublin. So not much point in having a crime section. All that shooting is just high spirits. (Sarah777 23:51, 23 November 2006 (UTC))

No crime in dublin? What about the apprentice plumber shot dead because he "was in the wrong place at the wrong time"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.1.88.12 (talk • contribs)

yip, there is no crime in Dublin. Check the meeja - all reported crime is in either Limerick or Gangland. Dublin is safe. ... al Seabhcán bin Baloney (Hows my driving?) 16:57, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree fully with the previous comment; there is a very serious crime problem in both Limerick and Gangland.

Try explaining your light hearted comments to the family of Anthony Campbell the apprentice plumber who was unwittingly caught up in the sickening cycle of violence. Also nothing about Veronica Guerin.

Veronica Guerin? Bastun 15:42, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

A Crime section has now been added. While some is excellent, I've removed some parts of it, which were plainly PoV. Southside inner-city areas were just as ravaged by the heroin epidemic as northside (e.g., Rialto, Dolphin's Barn, Crumlin) - and there were many anti-drugs marches on the northside too. Bastun 17:21, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

13 murders in dublin IN 2009, 1 in Limerick. Dublin needs a crime section! —Preceding unsigned comment added by IrishPatriots (talk • contribs) 21:39, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

White Collar Crime

Now that we have rightly highlighted the crimes of the plebs, how about offshore accounts, dodgy politicians and even dodgier political donations, planning tribunals for rezoned Dublin land and other white collar crime issues that continue to affect the lives of Dublin people, and the development of this city, in the past 20 years? Not a word about corruption in this article. For instance, the shortage of green spaces- playgrounds, sporting grounds etc- in west Dublin is directly related to rezoning by politicians who were bribed by builders. The internationally substandard conditions in newly built homes in Dublin is directly related to the "influence" of the building sector on the governing party who refused to bring the law into line as it would cost their donors more money to build houses. Indeed, does anything get done in this God-forsaken town without the brown envelope passed under the table while having a pint in Conways? Corruption is rampant in Dublin, not exceptional. Even Naples can acknowledge the corruption there.86.42.119.12 (talk) 07:54, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Here's two Dublin politicians to get you started. It is a pity we don't have pictures of them when they were in their prison cells: Liam Lawlor and Ray Burke. Don't look at this, a man who really did not need to look up "every tree in north Dublin" to find a politician who took bribes from builders. 86.42.119.12 (talk) 08:02, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Sport

Shamrock Rovers are not from Milltown, but from Ringsend. RedsIndependent.com 01:08, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

But their ground Glenmalure Park was at Milltown from the 1920s until the late 1980s, so there is a 60+ year connection to MIllitown. ww2censor 17:55, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Irish name

anybody tell me how the irish name for dublin is Baile Atha Cliath when the name dublin comes from the irish Dubh Linn meaning blackpool

It's in the article. See the "name" section.

Dublin - Name. "the more common name for the city in modern Irish is 'Baile Átha Cliath' ('The Town of the Ford of the Reed Hurdles'), which refers to the settlement, founded in 988 by High King Mael Sechnaill II, that adjoined the town of Dubh Linn proper at the Black Pool."

Guliolopez 04:42, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

It reads as if the name 'Dublin' comes from 'Baile Átha Cliath', not that it is a seperate name. I've changed it to be less confusing, please feel free to redo it if there's a better solution.

Rsloch (talk) 21:51, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Furthermore doesn't Baile Atha Cliath appear on all directional/distance roadsigns where both the irish and english names are shown? I think it is but might be mistaken as i have not been home in over a year. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.140.17.96 (talk) 02:07, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Map icons for sister cities

As regards the current disputes regarding which flag icons to use for sister cities, I want to point out that there's been a more extensive discussion at Talk:Vancouver. --A bit iffy 11:21, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

My personal preference is what they have done at Kiev: a simple list in the Infobox: no countries or WP:FLAGS! These are, after all, very much local arrangements, between individual local government bodies. Twinning is a trivial point, and ought not to be splogged across the main text of the article. These sections have been systematically targetted by certain users and their IP sockpuppets for many months now - a total waste of everybody's time. --Mais oui! 11:34, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I do like that, Mais oui!. I have to admit I do like the prettiness of the flag icons, but the Kiev solution is a whole lot cleaner, more ordered and uses much less screen "real estate". I think I've changed my mind now as a result — cheers! --A bit iffy 11:43, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

... de rien... --Mais oui! 11:49, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Mais oui! I agree that this constant churn over flags with relation to sister cities is a "storm in a tea cup", and that - as you say - the arrangements are local and (in a way) not necessarily relevant to the national context of the cities involved. As a result, if you were to move the sister cities to the info boxes for Dublin (and possibly Cork and Limerick where this also appears to be [strangely] contentious), then I would support that change. Guliolopez 12:29, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Mais Out!, I'd like to now why you are reverting the flags of the sovereign state of the United Kingdom to 'state' flags of England, Scotland and Wales. This appears to be pushing a separatist agenda. It's also non-balanced, as you won't allow the British flag in this case, but allow the Spanish flag for Barcelona in Catalonia, which is a state with a far larger separatist desire than any of Scotland, Wales or England. Please explain why you must revert these flags.Enzedbrit 05:11, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

The above illustrates why getting rif of all the flags is a good idea! Bastun 10:03, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Getting rid of user:Mais oui! would be an even better idea! He has a POV agenda that he pushes obsessively (just see how many "contributions" he makes per day) to the detriment of the Wikipedia project. Many knowlegable contributers have given up contributing because they had better things to do with their lives than put up with his barrage of attacks, abuse and destructive editing.

Please assume good faith and observe the policy on no personal attacks. Please also log in with an account and sign your posts with four tildes. Bastun 14:42, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

The time for assuming good faith is long past when it comes to user:Mais oui!. He has a long history of this behaviour. Logged-in users who have criticised user:Mais oui! have been monitored by him and had their contributions constantly reverted or destructively edited by him. In the end many have given up contributing to Wikipedia - a sad loss for the project.

Perhaps the editor attacking User: Mais oui! might do us the courtesy of signing his/her rather strong comments? (Sarah777 06:52, 16 February 2007 (UTC))

It is 81.153.151.56 (talk · contribs), one of 80 IP sockpuppets of Mallimak (talk · contribs). --Mais oui! 08:25, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Motto

A citation was requested for the recent translation of the city motto. Instead of providing a reference, because there is none to be found, and though a better translation may be preferred by some Latin scholars, I have reverted the English version of the motto to that provided by the Dublin City Council with an appropriate reference. Who are we to state a different translation than the council itself, this, at least is verifiable. ww2censor 13:42, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

The Latin inscription on the city coat of arms image is misspelled. It should read "URBIS" not "UBRIS". juanvale 18:06, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Achival

Sorry, forgot to add Achival to the Summary Edit (So its not vandalism, lol) --Ferdia O'Brien 15:23, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Sister city format

So - should Barcelona be the only city not to follow the

(cityname)(autonomous region/prefecture/state if appropriate)(country)

format? User:Seaned seems determined that Spain not be included as the country where one would expect to find Barcelona. On my talk page, he responded to me to say "Oh no not this again" - which is odd for a 4-day-old account. Bastun^{BaStun not BaTsun} 17:31, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

We have been through this before. If he does it again you should enforce the 3RR rule. This could be a Sockpuppet. ww2censor 17:40, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

More on Sister Cities

A note on Dublin's "twinning" with Emmetsberg, Iowa (pop <4000) was added recently. Is there any source available to support this? I can find no reference to a "sister city" relationship between Dublin and Emmetsberg. The Dublin city council (and chamber of commerce) do have formal associations with Barcelona (pop 1.6m), San Jose (pop 1.6m), and Liverpool (pop ~1m) - this is easily confirmed on the Dublin City Council website and elsewhere.

If Emmetsberg does have an association with Dublin, it may not be "reciprocal" at an official level. (Even a unilateral association is speculation on my part however, as - per above - I cannot find any detail on a formal association between the 2 . Save for a note on Emmetsberg's Wikipedia entry). Any thoughts? Or supporting data? Guliolopez 16:54, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

You might very well be right about a unilateral association, as I cannot find any definite reference in the .ie domain of twinning. (Do note that it's "Emmetsburg" not "Emmetsberg", in case you've been searching on the wrong name.) I have found this, but that's extremely weak in that there's no positive twinning/sister city reference. I have also found this on eBay (hope the link works!) where someone has minted an "Emmetsburg Iowa Sister City Dublin Irish Dollar".--A bit iffy 21:07, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I found this (last paragraph of History section) though I'm not convinced its a strong enough reference? Can't find anything at all about any sister cities on the Council website. Bastun^{BaStun not BaTsun} 21:55, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Surely the town's own history should be enough evidence for you that this is fact. It does state that "a joint proclamation officially declaring the two as “Sister Cities.” should be regarded as official which Guliolopez doubts. I have re-added it but will try to contact the town to try and confirm it. Cheers ww2censor 12:50, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

But that's not the town's history, its something written by a 'Non-Profit Volunteer Organization' - the lack of any other sources or references makes it dubious to me. Will remove it till we get confirmation or another ref/source. Bastun^{BaStun not BaTsun} 22:27, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Sometime during the last 6 months Emmetsburg has been re-added as a sister city without any supporting sources. Do we want to remove it again? ww2censor (talk) 17:45, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Multicultural Dublin

Are parts of that section not out of date already? Yep, 18 months to two years ago, Parnell Street may have been "Little Africa" - however, its now become a Chinatown. Loads of Chinese shops/supermarkets/restaurants, a couple of Polish ones, and very little African at all. Bastun^{BaStun not BaTsun} 13:11, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Where is/was the black pool

Where is or was the black pool Dublin is named after? New299 17:15, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

I brought a group on a tour of Dublin Castle several years ago and IIRC, the guide showed us an underground river at one point that she said lead to the 'Black Pool' that gave its name to city - so somewhere in or around the castle grounds would seem likely. Bastun^{BaStun not BaTsun} 22:15, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

The pool itself is hidden underneath the Dubhlinn Gardens, just south of the castle. Wiki01916 03:26, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Industry and economy (Section 7.3)

Removed link A New Heart for Dublin PDF document here as it was merely a Progressive Democrats "proposal" and not an official Dublin Docklands Development Authority or Dublin City Council document. It belongs at most in the Dublin Port article. Rubensni 12:40, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

IPA wrong

[bˠalʲɛ a:ha klʲiəh]

The sound represented by the letter e when the word in in pausa form is a schwa (central vowel), not an e. It looks like English was used to base the sound on. Also, consonant + vowel + l/n/r tends to become consonant +l/n/r +vowel in Irish, plus the long vowel of á is added to 'baile' so 'blaw klia(f)' arises, thus [bʷɫaː cliə(ɸ)], [c] IPA for /kʲ/, [l] for [lʲ]

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.134.220.133 (talk) 16:11, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

confusion

"The name Dublin is a Hiberno-English derivative of 'Dubh Linn' (Irish, dubh -> black, and linn -> pool). Historically, in the traditional Gaelic script used for the Irish language, 'bh' was written with a dot over the 'b', viz 'Duḃ Linn' or 'Duḃlinn'. The French-speaking Normans omitted the dot and spelled the name variously as 'Develyn' or 'Dublin'."

There are other similar names in Ireland, and Hiberno English has 'Doolin' when bh is considered broad, for example. Dublin could not be from Hiberno-English as the lenition of b to bh had occured long before English had come to be spoken in Ireland.

Difflyin or similar would be from the devoicing a v-like pronouncing of bh.

Regardless, the remark on HE is not logical.

One other point not covered, is why an attributive adjective is standing before the noun (Linn Dhubh, for example). Is this influence from the Germanic Norse speech? Perhaps it should be stated too.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.134.220.133 (talk) 16:28, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Name section and first image

Two things about recent (extensive) reorganisation of Dublin article.

Name section. Any particular reason why this would be now moved to the bottom? I thought it made sense where it was. Most articles which discuss the name of a city (and or changes to that name) do so very early on in the article. See: Madrid, London, Istanbul, Beijing, Belfast, srl. Thoughts? Objections to my moving it back up?
First image. The first guideline in WP:MOS#Images recommends (for various reasons) that opening images be right aligned. And yet the opening image in the Dublin article is left aligned. And kind of interferes with the reading of the opening para. Thoughts? Objections to my moving it back down?

Guliolopez 18:22, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Would it be possible to add the image into the infobox, similar to the London article? I see no problem in moving the stuff about the name back up though. Dan K 19:16, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Most of these edits by this anon editor, their first and only edits, didn't make a lot of sense in moving the name section way down the article. The separate population section seems a good idea though. Some of the phraseology seems odd, such as, " has produced three winners of the Nobel Prize for Literature" - are we a factory? "he planet's 16th most expensive city". I was too busy to change it or revert but someone, with a good editing eye, needs to give it a good look over. ww2censor 19:44, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Image in totally wrong place at top-left and that name section should be near the top of the sections. Djegan 20:47, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

As an aside, would it be possible to move the IPA into the Name section, as there is an awful lot in the intro and makes the first par very hard to read. Dan K 22:10, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like a decent idea. As another aside the lead section will need to be expanded to at least 3–4 paragraphs if we are ever to get this past a WP:GA to WP:FA status per WP:MOS. ww2censor 22:50, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Sister cities

Budapest is mentioned as a sister city, but I could not find source for that. Could you provide some? Squash Racket 16:03, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

GA delisted

In order to uphold the quality of Wikipedia:Good articles, all articles listed as Good articles are being reviewed against the GA criteria as part of the GA project quality task force. Unfortunately, as of September 18, 2007, this article fails to satisfy the criteria, as detailed below. For that reason, the article has been delisted from WP:GA. However, if improvements are made bringing the article up to standards, the article may be nominated at WP:GAC. If you feel this decision has been made in error, you may seek remediation at WP:GA/R.

The lead doesn't adequately summarise the article.
Every statement that is challenged or likely to be challenged needs an inline citation.
References should state the author, publisher, publishing date and access date if known.
The Transport section has stubby subsections. Either expand on them or merge them into one section.
There should be a non-breaking space between a number and the unit of measurement.
Full dates should be linked.

Regards, Epbr123 08:39, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

"There are significant social divisions between the coastal suburbs in the east of the city, including those on the Northside, and the newer developments further to the west." ??

This sentence -- which is at the end of the 'Northside and Southside' section -- is confusing: what exactly are the social divisions, and which divisions reside in which areas? (Are the coastal suburbs rich, poor, or divided within themselves, for instance?) Thanks. 74.98.139.153 17:12, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Old Norse pronunciation of Dyflinn

In either Modern Icelandic, whose pronunciation is preferred for reading Old Norse, or in the reconstructed Old Norse phonologies, it is impossible for "y" to have the value "u" or "ue" as it would in German or Modern Scandinavian languages.

Both "y" and "ý" have the same phonetic values as "i" and "í," making "duev-linn" a fundamentally incorrect pronunciation. I fixed this some time ago, and apparently someone edited it back to the incorrect version - I will refrain from changing it again, but perhaps whoever did it will read this and change it themselves.

-Adam, Nov. 14th, 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.230.210 (talk) 20:46, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Separating "Economy of Dublin" to wholly separate article

A change was made recently (undone temporarily until approach discussed) to split the "Economy" section into a separate article. Economy of Dublin. If this was done because the section was deemed too long, then at least a summarisation of the content should have been retained (as per London#Economy). Any thoughts on whether this separation is needed? And, if yes, on the best approach to linking the two articles? Guliolopez (talk) 21:08, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Recently, well actually earlier today, and leaving no information in the main article. That is very poor editing removing a large chunk without any discussion, while some might consider it bold, it could even be termed vandalism of the Dublin article. The amount of text that is in this section is not too long at all. If there is to be an Economy of Dublin that is distinctly different from Economy of Ireland, which mentions Dublin 20 times, it needs to be significantly longer than the current section text. Good to see you reverted the whole thing. Taoiseach is not exactly what one might term an involved editor with this topic, so maybe he does not know the guidelines for hiving off a section of text from a main article. ww2censor (talk) 23:37, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Cathedral links added

Pjdscott (talk) 12:04, 21 March 2008 (UTC) 11:56, 21 March 2008: Under "See also" I have added links to existing Wiki entries:

Christ Church Cathedral, Dublin
St. Patrick's Cathedral, Dublin

Dublin is rare in having three cathedrals within the city limits, so it seemed unusual not to list all three.

Second City

In the Glasgow article they say it was the second city in the British Empire after London during the Victorian era! whilst reading the Dublin article I also notice they make the same claim, although there are no dates to this fact, does anyone here know if the dates for both claims overlapped, and if so did the London government make this decision? I have a feeling it may have been unnofficial but it would be interesting to know the facts! Anyone know?--Jack forbes (talk) 11:48, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

See the second city page.Dublin was but Later on Glasgow was —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.45.11.151 (talk) 20:46, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Right, nobody knows, but I had to ask somewere and I thought this might be the right place,never mind!--Jack forbes (talk) 00:46, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Fear city-fair city

I see both the links provided by User:137.71.226.54 for adding a line calling Dublin as a Fear city under the crime section here. It has been contested as original research a few edits before. After reading both the links provided, I see that both are popular articles that call Dublin Fear City in their title. There is nothing to indicate that this is not just a catch title! How can this justify inclusion in the article. I revert this hereby, pending justification from User:137.71.226.54. Please discuss constructively here and arrive at consensus. I hope this is fair. Prashanthns (talk) 14:16, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Prashanthns. Per notes left on the user's talkpage, two "catch title" mentions in the press over the past 8 years (one of the references is from 2001) do not support an assertion that "Dublin is commonly called 'Fear City'". I have personally never heard Dublin referred to under this label (either in the press, other media or general use). This is likewise a POV assertion, so I did a quick Google search for "Fear City" and "Dublin". It returns only a few mentions - 2 of which are the pop press references in question. Much of the rest are references to the 1984 film with Tom Berenger and a band of the same name. WP:3RR and WP:POINT issues aside, the assertion that "Dublin is commonly called 'Fear City'" is not accurate, is not verifiably supported by the references provided. It therefore approaches WP:OR (with WP:NPOV undertones). Guliolopez (talk) 14:53, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Dubious

Yet again the sister cities list has grown two decidedly dubious appendages. Sydney (which is new). And Emmetsburg (which keeps creeping back). Per the official Dublin City Council website under "Facts about Dublin" (a page updated in February 2008) the only sanctioned/official Twinned Cities are Barcelona, Liverpool and San Jose. There is no mention anywhere of Emmetsburg or Sydney. Either on this page or the rest of the site. Emmetsburg therefore remains (as far as I can tell) an "aspirational" twinning on the part of the Emmetsburgians. Rather than a reciprocal one. And a mistaken addition (unless the twinning happened yesterday) on the part of whoever added Sydney. Will be removing both unless any other opinions or evidence available. Guliolopez (talk) 17:21, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

I searched for any evidence to support assertion that Sydney is a Twinned city, and can find none. The Dublin City council and the Sydney municipal websites both explicitly list their official twinnings, and there is no mention of this alleged twinning on either. (See: Sydney site and Dublin site). I have left the Emmetsburg listing in place for now, but will be removing in due course unless Emmetsburg's own assertions are backed up with any "reciprocal" claim of Twinning from relevant Dublin authority. Guliolopez (talk) 17:30, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Well done on finding that part of the official Dublin website - I'd looked before and failed. I remember finding a Seanad debate transcript online where David Norris mentions Emmetsburg, but IIRC there was nothing about an official 'twinning'. Bastun^{BaStun not BaTsun} 23:04, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Dublin Airport August Rain record

Is it notable adding in this, or will it necessitate a "records" section?

Met Éireann has said that in the 24-hour period from midnight Friday (8th Aug) until midnight on Saturday (9th Aug) 76.2mm of rain was recorded at Dublin Airport. This is a new record for the month of August. The previous record was 73mm which was recorded in August 1986 RTE report on floods --HighKing (talk) 19:47, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Ireland is well known for the rain but this is a general article about Dublin, not weather records or Dublin weather,so I would leave it out. ww2censor (talk) 18:19, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

capital of the island of Ireland

The paragraph beginning: Since the beginning of Anglo-Norman rule in the 12th century, the city has served as the capital of the island of Ireland in the varying geopolitical entities...

doesn't make sense, and anyway there is sufficient historical information included in the article to make it redundant. Dublin wasn't "capital of the island" during the time of the Normans--it was their centre of administration. And "1919-1922" won't make sense to anyone outside Ireland. It should be removed.Hohenloh (talk) 02:42, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

History section needs expanding

There is nothing mentioned about John de Hothum's drastic steps to defend Dublin from the advancing army of Edward Bruce after the Battle of Kells in 1316. Also the crime section needs to be elaborated on more.--jeanne (talk) 18:07, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

You could say that 90% of the events that occurred in Dublin in its history are not touched upon in this article. Mentioning many of them would make the article very big and unwieldy. I'm not sure that that would be good thing.Hohenloh (talk) 00:30, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Famous Dubliners?

How about a section that lists famous Dublners, past and present?--jeanne (talk) 16:59, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

There is already a List of Dublin people. No need to include this here again. In the same way that Hohenloh points out above (in that there is already a History of Dublin article, and we shouldn't include everything in that here), most articles have a hierarchy. There is a "super-article" which deals with the subject at a highlevel. And if more detail is neccesary, it is carved out separately into subarticles as neccesary. Not everything goes in the super-article. Guliolopez (talk) 01:36, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

The inclusion of Yeats as a famous Dub is dubious. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.100.147.253 (talk) 14:17, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Why? Yeats was born in Sandymount. ww2censor (talk) 15:35, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

everybody in Ireland with money enough for a hospital was born in dublin. I doubt that is criteria for being a dubliner. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.232.66.242 (talk) 14:38, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Upper and lower in Dublin

Can anyone tell me why Dublin has upper and lower street names? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.44.74.134 (talk) 21:04, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Some streets were fairly long, sometimes streets were crossed by more important streets and so were split in two and sometimes streets were extended and were given an "Upper" or "Lower" in the process. "Lower" meant closer to the mouth of the river Liffey. Hohenloh⁺00:20, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Dublin/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Hello. I'm going to have to fail this article's GA nomination, mainly due to referencing issues. Here is a list of things that should be worked on before the article is renominated for GAN:

The article is extensively under-referenced. There are sections that are completely unreferenced, and most sections are at least partially un-referenced. This is the most major concern with the article.
There are several deadlinking references - see here for a list.
Web references need to be formatted with a publisher and access date at the very least.
There are several fact tags, some of which have been in place for over a year.
The lead does not adequately summarize the article and is too short. The lead for an article of this length should be three to four paragraphs. The lead should summarize the entire article, but should not contain any information that is not present in the body of the article.
The image choice and placement needs attention. Text should not be sandwiched between images. There are probably too many images for this article - some should be removed; readers can view them in the commons category and articles are not supposed to be image galleries, which is what this has turned into.
The Tourist attractions section should either be expanded to include prose, or removed altogether and the link moved to the see also section. There should not be sections that contain nothing but a link to another article.
The See also section should be trimmed. Non-essential links should be wikilinked in the body, and removed from this section.
There are a lot of short paragraphs. These should be combined to form longer paragraphs, which will make the prose flow better.

I hope these suggestions help you in your quest to improve this article. Once these issues are fixed, the article can be renominated for GA status. In this review, I have not looked at prose, image licensing, reference reliability, NPOV or completeness, so this list is probably not exhaustive. Please let me know if you have any questions or comments. Dana boomer (talk) 19:12, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Flag / Image

I don't think the flag of Dublin is the three castles on the Leinster flag, as shown at the top of this article. I realise that this hangs off flag poles on the Liffey and various other places, but doesn't this flag as it is used represent Dublin AND Leinster rather than just Dublin? ie Dublin's flag is in the top left on the Leinster flag to denote that you are in Dublin, Leinster.

The flag of Dublin is the three burning castles on a navy background.

Secondly, I understand that you are trying to include three landmarks in Dublin but Liberty Hall is an anomaly in terms of Dublin architecture. It is far higher than anything else and the style of the building is that of a very limited section of Dublin and is really in no way representative of the architecture of the city as a whole.

I would suggest O'Connell St or Georgian Dublin, perhaps one of the Georgian squares. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.97.86.215 (talk) 18:29, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

As far as the flag is concerned, it is the flag adopted by Dublin Corporation/City Council in 1885 [1], and confirmed in G. A. Hayes-McCoy, A History of Irish Flags from Earliest Times, Dublin, 1979. The green flag with a gold harp was the Nationalist emblem of the time, and was not intended to represent Leinster: the symbolism being to show that Dublin was a Nationalist council. Lozleader (talk) 19:47, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

And here from an archived Dublin City Libraries page [2]:

The Dublin City Flag, which was adopted for use in 1885, presents a combination of national and civic emblems, with the harp of the Ireland in gold on a green background and the Three Castles of Dublin quartered in white on a blue background nearest the flagpole. It is flown at city Hall and at the Mansion House to mark events of civic important, and at half mast on the death of a serving or former Lord Mayor or Honorary Freeman of Dublin.

Lozleader (talk) 19:54, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Geo. Coords

Could the latitude/longitude be moved from the top left to somewhere more appropriate? Above or into the infobox? Right now it's very intrusive.--94.196.238.118 (talk) 15:40, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

More image musings upon encountering some photo atrocities.....

Haven't been here in a while and find that whatever about the size/layout/appropriateness debate (above) we must have basic competent images. Good pics have been replaced with blurred or very poorly exposed shots. I'm declaring Jihad on these; I rooted through the earlier versions of the article and replaced some of those I've removed with ones I remembered. Also, there appears to be some "image warring" going on - lots of editors fancy their own efforts over existing images. A useful rule of thumb is

Unless your new creation is:
manifestly, by a margin, clearly better technically;
or is replacing a blurred, poorly exposed effort;
or is manifestly better suited to supporting the text

then keep your beautiful/arty/expressive creation on your PC. Sarah777 (talk) 03:53, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

translate?

The other articles to employ this phrase are: History_of_Roads_in_Ireland; Father_Mathew_Bridge.

There is some explanation in: "hurdle-bridge"; "bridges were constructed of strong hurdles supported on piles"; "Ford of the Hurdles".

Someone, please, consolidate this into an article,... Clarify.

If the political problems continue, maybe someday someone would try doublin' Éire, in order to halve ire.

[[ hopiakuta Please do sign your signature on your message. ~~ Thank You. -]] 07:20, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Headline paragraphs

Historically, Dublin was the centre of Irish literature, arts, learning, commerce, and industry for many years, with some fine examples of older Dublin shown through the famed Georgian houses and architecture. These picturesque houses, and especially doors, have become world famous through postcards and other images.

Ireland's capital is today home to many thousands of different immigrants, especially from Poland, the UK, China, Nigeria, Australia, Brazil, and the Phillipines. These diverse peoples have immigrated to Dublin due to the high standard of living, and even during the current financial crises, immigration rates are still growing. It is estimated[citation needed] that by 2020, 30% of the people living in the city will be from outside Ireland.

Both of these pre-index headline paragraphs seem wildly out of place, the latter immigration stuff is already readily available in the demographics section, whilst some the former paragraph needs really to be more in a dedicated Architecture section, if anyone would be willing to have a go. I've removed the immigration info and re-edited the other body of text. Noelfirl (talk) 19:30, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Dublin LGBT

Added a link to Dublin Pride festival. --Martin-09-DP (talk) 18:19, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

2009 Murders

Hi All, is the concensus that there should be reference to crime and the large number of gangland murders in Dublin so far in 2009? The number of gun murders alone would indicate that this subject is a significant part of the Dublin story... —Preceding unsigned comment added by IrishPatriots (talk • contribs) 19:54, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Here are the statistics so far in 2009. Provided by the national broadcaster. 18 Murders, 15 Shot and 3 Stabbed.

How is the crime notable for a city the size of Dublin?MITH 15:39, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

My addition of a crime section outlining the murder statistics for 2009 was removed. Why was this? All of the incidents have been sourced from rte.ie, the national broadcaster of the Irish Republic. 18 murders in the first 6 months of 2009 is a very relevant statistic.

I am adding the section again. If someone thinks that there is some justification for not having a crime section then please inform us. --IrishPatriots (talk) 20:38, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

You ignored my question and did not provide any collective sources.MITH 20:52, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

- Hi, I have attached the sources from the RTE website. If you have an issue with these you are free to contact RTE directly to dispute their accuracy. - The murders had an impact so large that the Irish government had to introduce new legislation to help fight the problem. - 29 murders in the Republic of Ireland in the first 6 months of this year. 18 of these occured in Dublin. 62% of all murders this year have occured in Dublin. This is notable. - You seem have become immune to the crime of murder.

Even thie week, there have been 3 murders in Dublin. Why are you against mentioning that there is a huge crime situation in Dublin?--IrishPatriots (talk) 22:38, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

VERIFIABLE: The source of the data is RTE.IE, the National Broadcaster. NEUTRAL: The source is a neutral source. VERIFIABLE: I have pasted the URL to each of the sources of the statement. NOTABLE: According to the Wikipedia guidelines, a fact is notable if they have received significant coverage in the media, or of it is a criminal act.

Therefore, all of the criteria specified by Wikipedia have been satisfied. To remove the statement is an act of vandalism.--IrishPatriots (talk) 13:27, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

This is an encyclopaedia article covering a wider period than just the last 6 months. We are not a news service reporting only current events which is essentially what you are trying to do. If you think that crime in Dublin is notable over a long period of time, then perhaps a reliably sourced paragraph or two covering a wide time frame, might be acceptable though I doubt you can show that Dublin is significantly worse, or better, than other towns in Ireland over time to make that a justifiable addition. ww2censor (talk) 13:47, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

You are correct, Wikipedia is an encloypedia article and for an encloypedia article on Dublin not to include a crime section would not be a very good service to the readers.

I think your second suggestion of comparing the rates in Dublin to other parts of Ireland is a very constructive idea. I have added a table comparing Dublin and the rest of the country. Sources all provided by the National Broadcaster, rte.ie.

2009: Murders 27, Dublin 18, Cork 3, Galway 2, Limerick 2, Offaly 1, Tipperary 1, Wicklow 1, Kilkenny 1.

Dublin on it's own represents 64% of the total statistics.

Sources provided:

Location	Source
Cork	http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0126/mcmanusj.html
Cork	http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0206/corcorana.html
Cork	http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0215/gallaghere.html
Dublin	http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0107/summerhill.html
Dublin	http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0109/summerhill.html
Dublin	http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0117/gunnep.html
Dublin	http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0120/mcnallyg.html
Dublin	http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0120/ohallorans.html
Dublin	http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0125/keoghr.html
Dublin	http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0209/hendrickm.html
Dublin	http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0218/carrollj.html
Dublin	http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0304/murraym.html
Dublin	http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0313/tallaght.html
Dublin	http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0320/murrayl.html
Dublin	http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0330/coolock.html
Dublin	http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0420/vickersj.html
Dublin	http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0507/dublin.html
Dublin	http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0518/sharkeyd.html
Dublin	http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0612/finglas.html
Dublin	http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0612/ballough.html
Dublin	http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0617/joycet.html
Galway	http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0416/galway.html
Galway	http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0603/galway.html
Limerick	http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0318/bennettd.html
Limerick	http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0409/limerick.html
Offaly	http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0401/farrellm.html
Tipperary	http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0618/templemore.html
Wicklow	http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0601/sinapayenc.html

--193.120.116.179 (talk) 14:29, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

This table still reports the same limited news statistics as previously. There is still no wider viewpoint. ww2censor (talk) 14:40, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Hi Ww2Censor, this table does not reflect limited news statistics. This table includes all the 2009 murder statistics in Ireland as reported by the state broadcaster.

Wider Viewpoint: Crime in the different areas of Ireland is a national issue. Therefore, the view of the National Broadcaster is the 'Wider Viewpoint'. You mentioned that you wanted to see information showing that Dublin had a significantly worse or better rate than other areas of Ireland. Your suggestion was taken on board and the table satisfies your request.

It appears that you are questioning the validity of the information presented by RTE. By all means, check out all of the links for validity.

In your comment above, you mentioned that you doubt I could present evidence to show that the murder rate in Dublin was better or worse than the rest of the country. Do you still have those feelings or will you now accept that the lives lost in Dublin are worthy of mention?

I live over in Sandymount and over the past few years I have seen the spiral upwards in Crime. 18 months ago there were 3 young men stabbed to death in separate incidents within a radius of 1km from me. (1 in Ballsbridge and 2 in Irishtown). The sooner people realise that there is a problem here, the sooner we can address it.--IrishPatriots (talk) 15:10, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

But let me guess, you're from Limerick orginally. You're annoyed that Limerick has a reputation of being called 'Stab City' by according to you, the Dublin media. So you're trying to remove that way of thinking from Wikipedia and instead you have decided to become a hypocrite and suddenly start proclaiming 'Dublin has a problem' and you are now trying to shove meaningless quotes from the media into this encyclopedia. No thank you.MITH 15:27, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Sorry MITH, you are saying that RTE News reports meaningless quotes?

I wrote on the Limerick page that I believe the crime sections for all the Irish articles should be standardized. Either they all have crime sections or none have crime sections. Either they all have on or none of them do. Look at any of the big cities in the world, they all have a crime section.

The fact that you are criticizing a city like Limerick for having 2 murders in 2009 and looking to ignore the 18 murders in our own city is interesting. And Cork only has 3. We need to address the issue and I feel your attempts at hiding the problem do not help.

By the way, I am from Dublin all my life. --IrishPatriots (talk) 15:51, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Also MITH, you mentioned that I was annoyed by Limerick being labeled by the 'Dublin Media'. Please present the quote where I mention the 'Dublin Media'. If not please apologise for lying. It is poor behaviour for editors to stray from the facts. Once you accept this I am sure you will make an awesome editor --IrishPatriots (talk) 15:59, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

As other editors have told you, there is no wider viewpoint on this so therefore it's not notable for inclusion in the article. Going through media reports and counting them up is original research and not tolerated on Wikipedia. There is no consensus for any of the text you are proposing and I advise you stop pushing your point of view and leave the text as is.MITH 16:45, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Having just reverted IrishPatriots' deletion of the Crime section from the Limerick article, I must say that there does seem to be a double-standard at work here... Dppowell (talk) 17:50, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for raising this Dppowell, you will see from my comments there that I wish to have one standardization. A crime section on Dublin and Limerick or else a lack of a crime section on both. Dppowell, would you be in favour of having a crime section for Dublin and Limerick or would you be against having a crime section for both?

I noticed that the fact that you are not in favour of having a crime section for Limerick but are against having a crime section for Dublin would possibly indicate a double standard by you?

Dppowell, can you please tell me why you would be against having a Dublin crime section. If not I suggest we add one. You can write it if you like. I think it is important to standardize the articles though. --IrishPatriots (talk) 18:46, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I think a section on crime is appropriate for an article about any city, anywhere. Crime is an important, distinctive aspect of the urban landscape, and it has its own unique characteristics in each city. To the extent that it can be backed up by WP:RS, it's clearly encyclopedic. With some smaller, less complete articles, the inclusion of a entire section for crime might give the appearance of WP:UNDUE, but I don't think that's a problem with either Dublin or Limerick. Until today, I didn't know that a crime section was being barred from this article, but I'm afraid I don't have the time or energy to advocate in favor of its inclusion any more than I already have. Good luck. Dppowell (talk) 21:30, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't have a strong objection to a reasonably well balanced crime section but only having very great details for the last 6 months to the exclusion of the previous millennium is way off balance and highly POV. Even a paragraph covering at least the last century might be considered reasonable. Write something and place it here for others to comment first. Cheers ww2censor (talk) 22:49, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I've just done a completely unscientific survey. Articles on London and Glasgow make no mention of crime, while Marseilles and Naples have mention, but not a crime section. I think the articles here do merit a mention of crime, but not too much and not too specific - identifying weapons and numbers, etc. Such detail will be rendered inaccurate by the next incident. I would like to make a specific point. To argue that if one article has a particular section, then all should have would not make sense; imagine if you applied that rule to the inclusion of, say, religion. Similarly, suggesting that if one lacks a section, then all such sections should be removed is not in the best interests of the readers. Nelson50^T 12:01, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Is the listing of each murder in Dublin any less valid than your unscientific survey? I note you dont have an objection to there being types of weapons mentioned in the Limerick article. There were two more murders in Dublin this week, yet not a whiff of crime in the Dublin article. Talk about double standards, or should that be Dublin Standards Squidlimerick (talk) 17:25, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

It is now the case that there have been 50 murders in Ireland in 2009.

Dublin 35 Cork 3 Tipperary 2 Galway 2 Limerick 2 Kildare 1 Offaly 1 Wicklow 1 Kerry 1 Mayo 1 Meath 1

Who wants to put a piece together on the serious issue in Dublin?--IrishPatriots (talk) 23:36, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Notability of the murders

Hardly notable per Wiki standards surely? Pretty low by international standards I have heard. Check this. For cities with over a million people in the US the lowest is 5 per 100,000. Current rate is Dublin is lower than that. Sarah777 (talk) 12:14, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

GAWC alpha- world city

Dublin is now listed as an alpha- world city by Loughborough University. I added this to the article last night, but it has been removed. I believe it is significant and relevant. Dublin was listed as merely a city with 'strong evidence of world city formation in 1998, by the same university. It is significant that it has risen so quickly through the ranks.It is also a fact and is encyclopediac. Any thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.97.202.168 (talk) 23:22, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Introduction

A city like Dublin surely needs a bigger introduction?

Ideas anyone? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.12.240.223 (talk) 03:01, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

I agreeIreland1994 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:27, 27 July 2009 (UTC).

"Metro" Area = 6,980 km2?????

Come on, I realise this is coming from what the government has deemed as the "Greater Dublin Area" for planning and development purposes but besides that this figure is completely meaningless and misleading. This is not a metro area by any stretch of the imagination. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dogturd (talk • contribs) 22:57, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

The sacking of Drogheda, and massacre of her citizens, by Oliver Cromwell

This needs to be toned down a little, especially the word 'massacre' which is value-laden. The 'Siege of Drogheda' page linked here is well-balanced and neutral, this reference to the siege of Drogeda isn't. It is also only very marginally relevant, since it is dubious to what extent the 'massacre' is at all relevant to the prominence of Dublin, since according to the Siege of Drogeda site about 700+ civilians were killed. 89.54.196.249 (talk) 19:35, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

History Section = Joke

Obviously written by a brit or west brit. Ridiculously biased. 3/4 of it is dedicated to the city's "golden era" of "expansion" and "notable architecture", with a few pieces in between about those nasty paddies destroying the "Georgian greatness" with their silly rebellion. Shame on Irish Wikipedians for letting this bullshit propaganda be communicated. 86.45.100.129 (talk) 06:07, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

This viewpoint presents no useful criticism of the history section and reads like nothing more than a rant from someone with a chip on their shoulder. While the text could certainly be cleaned up a little, I'd suggest that the POV tag be removed as there are no substantial grounds for having it there. 87.192.56.84 (talk) 18:15, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. Specific {{POV-statement}} are/can/should be used to tag specific issues. Section tagging with no follow-up to explain/redress specific issues is not in the spirit of WP:SOFIXIT. Tagging (and note here) seems focused on making a point than addressing specific issues. Am removing generic section tag. (But retaining specific tags so anon [or anyone else] can review specific issues). Guliolopez (talk) 17:10, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Climate

The temperature data seem's very low. Compare the climate chart to Belfast for example. Their climate chart alludes to a city with warmer weather, which is not true. Surely there has been a hotter day than 28.7 degrees celsius recorded in Dublin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.134.219.4 (talk) 01:17, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

According to Weatherbase.com, the min and max temps for Dublin were -7 and +28 (see this. The min and max for Belfast were -3 and +26 (see this. The same pages show the average ranges for each. --Red King (talk) 20:24, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Infobox -city image. Can we stick with one image?!

Can we stick with one image for the info box? It seems to change every few hours. I propose Liberty Hall Spire and Custom House.jpg

Its a good image for the infobox because it has three iconic Dublin buildings in the one shot. It's a daylight picture, it gives someone who knows nothing about Dublin some idea of the architecture of the city in a reasonably good photograph. It is also very "legible" at the small sizes that the infobox requires. There have been quite a few night time photos of various structures that in the context of the infobox don't really say anything except "Dublin has floodlit structures!". This is just my opinion please feel free to comment.--Trounce (talk) 19:07, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

I Disagree totally with you mate, there is only one point, a best picture for this articles, not for a virtual city; So as far I think, get a look at the Amesterdam article, there is a similar images, I think it gives a more romantical view of the city "The O'Connell Bridge", the "Spire" is a meager buiding not so good for an article such as Dublin ! see ? I think you should revise little what you definitely think, then if you are persuaded to stay on your decision tell me which picture I have to upload to replace the actual (poor details and few buildings representing the city). thank you all Mysticshade (talk) 07:39, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

I think we need to define the criteria for what's the "best picture" for this article. I don't think "a more romantical view" of the city is what is necessarily required. I would define the best picture for this article as one that clearly says "this is Dublin, Ireland and nowhere else" .

The difference between KeizersgrachtReguliersgrachtAmsterdam.jpg used on the Amsterdam article and your O'ConnellBridgeLights.jpg'' is (1) its a featured picture (whereas O'ConnellBridgeLights.jpg is not) and (2) Amsterdam is famous for its canals, bridges and tall thin town houses- all of which are beautifully represented in that photo. Its also 3,456 × 2,304 pixels (file size 1.11 MB) so if any one wants to see a larger version of the image they can. Where as O'ConnellBridgeLights.jpg is a miserable 500 × 335 pixels (file size 117 KB)

I am sorry, but I don't understand what you are saying in the last couple of sentences.--Trounce (talk) 20:26, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

User:Howth575 thought Liberty Hall Spire and Custom House.jpg was too dark so i have brightened it a bit. May be this is better?:

--Trounce (talk) 21:02, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Images

A few of things on images and this discussion:

Firstly, there are (yet again) far too many images on this page. One per section to illustrate the text should be fine. Otherwise they start to impact readability. Per the relevant guidelines.
Secondly, to the infobox, I agree with Trounce that the image should be representative. The Ulster Bank shot - while "nice" - isn't representative of any major landmarks or Dublin as a whole.
Thirdly, to Mysticshade's images in general. It seems highly unlikely that these are free for use. Either in this article or anywhere else. [[At least one derives from a copyrighted shot sold commercially as a poster for some years. The rest seem implausible as being taken by the user as, though uploaded all at the same time, they were taken by at least 5 different cameras over the space of a number of years and were uploaded coincidentally with similarly non-free postcard images of Cambodia. Guliolopez (talk) 19:58, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Images placed in articles are intended to increase a reader's understanding of the topic but the current overuse of images in several section are there just for decoration not for better understanding. Three financial service center images does not add anything to anyone's understanding just as too many images of places of education does not help anyone understand the range of education available in Dublin that cannot be conveyed by the text with the four images currently there.

Placement of images sandwiching text between fails MOS:IMAGES as does placing left-aligned images directly below a subsection-level heading. While we may like James Joyce and Oscar Wilde both images are unnecessary. The "Literature, theatre and the arts" section would be better served by using either one and a Book of Kells image instead of what is there now. What has the "Dublin Custom House day" images to do with the "Shopping" section, etc, etc. Fewer more appropriate images are needed not more and more images. This will never even aspire to being a WP:GA or WP:FA if it remains like this and edit warring over images is ruining this article which deserves more respect. ww2censor (talk) 21:02, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Then it is more wise to check only inapropriate images concerning articles and remove those wrong, not to remove every picture like now Mysticshade (talk) 06:54, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

I think there should be better photographs for the "'O Connell street" picture and the "Temple Bar" picture's in the opening section of the article. The "'O Connell street" photograph look's like it is from a 1980's postcard. The "Temple Bar" photograph is a photograph of the outside of a pub!, a photograph taking in more of the "Temple Bar" area, cobbled street's etc, would be more appropriate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.47.232.18 (talk) 00:47, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Map of Ireland

Would it be possible to change the map of Ireland, it appears that counties are somewhat misrepresented. For example while there are two county councils (North Tipperary Co. Co. and South Tipperary Co. Co.) in County Tipperary, there is actually only one county. The two councils are an administrative legacy which one could consider outdated though that's a debate for another place. ConsulHibernia (ConsulHibernia (talk) 13:09, 10 July 2010 (UTC))

I would keep the current map. If any subdivisions are to be shown, I think that only administrative subdivisions would be appropriate. Others (linguistic, political, cultural identidies etc) are largely irrelevant for an initial map. I, as a reader, am primarily interested in the current administrative status of national subdivions. If I need to know about the historic development of the subdivisions, then I'll go to the appropriate page. ConorBrady ^.ie (caint) 16:14, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Delete Category:Dublin?

There is a discussion at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2010 July 19#Category:Dublin as to whether it should be merged or not. -- Scrivener-uki (talk) 14:08, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Effect of recession

The article is out of date and reads as though the property boom was still under way. Deipnosophista (talk) 17:19, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Believe me, it was much worse. I have updated the Economy section recently, stating the current status of construction projects, particularly in the Dublin Docklands. I mentioned the completed projects and the projects that have been put on hold "due to the difficult economic climate faced by the Docklands Authority". The opening sentence ("Dublin has been at the centre of Ireland's phenomenal economic growth and subsequent economic contraction over the last decade") does not imply that the boom is continuing. I think that the Economy section is quite clear, unless you are referring to a different section. Rasbora100 (talk) 20:46, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Why is it necessary to add the comment referring to "economic contraction" at all when there is no reference to the late 2000's recession on the Athens and Madrid Wikipedia pages? Surely when speaking in general terms, which you are on this page, you should describe the economy as it has been over the past 15 years, and make that the central issue , not a current news story that, though noteworthy, has not been prevalent over the last two decades and who's long term effect is yet unknown. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul294gorm (talk • contribs) 00:51, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

A current news story ?? Where the hell have you been for the past 2 or 3 years? There should 100% be something written about the economic recession in Ireland what else is the economy section for? 79.97.84.174 (talk) 16:43, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Baile Atha Cliath and its pronunciation ought to be included in the first sentence

Including the local, foreign name is common Wikipedia practice (see Cologne). Additionally, the pronunciation of the Irish name is pretty startling (blah-klee-uh) for non-Irish.99.97.50.9 (talk) 17:09, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Grafton Street

That image of "Grafton Street" is actually South Anne Street taken from Grafton Street. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.47.40.18 (talk) 12:14, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

That image has been changed for a real image of Grafton Street and the wrong one noted as having the wrong name and description. ww2censor (talk) 16:05, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Dublin is still the capital of Ireland, not just the Republic

Why is the link under Ireland referring to the 26 counties rather than to all of the country? Dublin has been the capital of the entire island for many centuries now. Is this article attempting to placate a minority by trying to change that easily verifiable fact? 86.46.30.167 (talk) 21:02, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Because Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom, and its capital is Belfast. While Dublin is the largest city on the island, it isn't the capital of the whole island. Tebibyte (talk) 08:28, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Trying to 'placate a minority'? Find a source for this 'easily verifiable fact' would you? Northern Ireland is part of the UK, and as Tebibyte has said, has its own capital, Belfast. Dylan (talk) 22:49, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Remove table in Sport section?

Is there really any need for the that table in the sports section? It seems to get longer every time I check this article. Most of it is on the League of Ireland article anyway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tebibyte (talk • contribs) 15:35, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Dublin's lead image

Try to include the Convention Centre Dublin in the lead image, it looks stunning at night or George's Quay Plaza. I know it was in it before. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Feljin J (talk • contribs) 19:35, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

I have to agree here, George's Quay Plaza would be a beautiful picture to include there. Skyifictionable (talk) 23:32, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Lead Graphic Caption

The lead graphic on this page has an outdated caption, but I'm not sure how to fix it. The pictures from top left show: The Grand Canal Theatre, Four Courts, The O'Connel Bridge (or O'Connel Street, I suppose would be accurate as well,) Trinity College, The Custom House and Dublin Castle. The Samuel Becket Bridge and the International Financial Services Centre are no longer represented on the image: the caption should be updated to reflect the current graphic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richardsw (talk • contribs) 16:23, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Click on this link and edit the image captions appropriately. ww2censor (talk) 17:15, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

The design section

Was small and primarily devoted to a recent honor as one of three cities shortlisted for an international recognition. I've moved this under Arts, which is expansive enough to include visual arts and drama, so I don't think design is inappropriate there. In fact, it merits expansion. 99.156.70.163 (talk) 13:31, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Lead Image

Is there any particular reason why the lead image isn't updating on the main page? Tebibyte (talk) 19:28, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Urban population

From the 2011 census, it is easy to get the city and metro population of Dublin, but what areas constitute urban Dublin and how is the population actually calculated? Tebibyte (talk) 15:55, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

This link should help http://www.cso.ie/census/documents/Prelim%20complete.pdf . Go to page 21 , it nreaks it down into Dublin City 525,838 Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown 206,995 Fingal 273,051 South Dublin 265,174 . A map on page three shows where they are . Hope this helps . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.78.197.59 (talk) 05:12, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply, but the populations of Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown, Fingal and South Dublin include the urban as well as rural population. In the 2006 census, the population of urban Dublin was 1,045,769... how was this actually calculated? At present, the city and metro populations have been updated in the info box, however the urban population is still outdated (1,045,769 in 2006). I'm expecting the urban population is now approximately 1.1-1.2 million. Tebibyte (talk) 12:22, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Black Pool, specifically

I tried to add a page of information about the Black Pool that Dublin is literally named after. I feel like it would help make this page more into the "geographical category" you folks are searching for. However, it was tagged for speedy deletion because it apparently overlapped to much with this page and the History of Dublin one, so it no longer exists. Any suggestions? Or should I just add more to the information here? (BadgerRugger (talk) 15:24, 22 November 2011 (UTC)).

What are the subdivisions of Dublin?

Dublin can be politically broken down into six constituencies.

It can also be broken down into Walkinstown, Crumlin, Templeogue, etc.

The individual articles refer to these divisions as "suburbs" but that term is not widely used in Ireland - neither in informal conversation, nor in the media. So what are those things?

People usually say "What area are you from?" - but there's surely a more precise word than "area". Any ideas?

"Estates" also exist ("housing estates"), but they're subdivisions of the above "areas". The article List of Dublin postal districts uses the term "areas". Gronky (talk) 11:08, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

The lede

I've attempted to improve the lede by adding in the notable fact that Dublin is the largest city on the island of Ireland. Unfortunately, an editor has twice reverted this edit, with the erroneous and hostile claims that the edit is an "attempt to circumvent IMOS" and that "IMOS is clear on this issue".

IMOS states that "where the island of Ireland or Northern Ireland is being discussed in the same context or where confusion may arise ... use Republic of Ireland" - hence IMOS actually supports my edit. It would be ridiculous to say that Dublin is the largest city in Ireland and in Ireland. Mooretwin (talk) 11:34, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

You are attempting to introduce a factoid in the lead to 'justify' an unnecessary dab. See "When referring to places and settlements in the Republic of Ireland in the introduction to articles..." at WP:IRE-IRL. Couldn't be clearer. RashersTierney (talk) 11:42, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

No I'm not. Mooretwin (talk) 14:00, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Rashers is right clearly emphasise the fact of the island like [[Ireland|island of Ireland]] and refer to the state as [[Republic of Ireland|Ireland]] as per WP:IRE-IRL.Murry1975 (talk) 13:04, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

But you can't do that in the same sentence. To avoid confusion, per IMOS, we need to spell out "island of Ireland" and "Republic of Ireland". Mooretwin (talk) 14:00, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

The example given "Ireland is a state in Europe occupying most of the island of Ireland". The exact case of your point. I think that solves that usage.Murry1975 (talk) 14:35, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

So you're suggesting we should say Dublin is the biggest city in Ireland and on the island of Ireland? Seems very unnatural. Mooretwin (talk) 15:00, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

No thats what your saying, I am just showing you how it should be done."Dublin is the biggest city in Ireland and on the island of Ireland". It seems unnatural? lol.Murry1975 (talk) 15:03, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

No I'm saying it should say Dublin is the biggest city in the Republic of Ireland and on the island of Ireland. Yes, it seems unnatural, and confusing, to refer to "Ireland" and "the island of Ireland" in the same sentence. Mooretwin (talk) 15:25, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

To me it seems unnatural and confusing that you want to edit against IMOS guidelines and then raise it on the talk page when it fails and gets edited out.Murry1975 (talk) 15:35, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't want to edit against IMOS guidelines and I'm not proposing to. The guidelines say where there may be confusion, use ROI. Mooretwin (talk) 16:09, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

The example in the guidelines is the one I have given. It also states in the lead use [[Republic of Ireland|Ireland]]. Murry1975 (talk) 17:19, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but that's where there's no prospect of confusion arising. You need to read the whole guideline. Mooretwin (talk) 23:21, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

And where will confusion arise by following the ACTUAL example("Ireland is a state in Europe occupying most of the island of Ireland") or again is there a reason you want to edit against IMOS? Murry1975 (talk) 23:28, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, obviously because readers may not understand that the state calling itself "Ireland" is not actually coterminous with Ireland. Mooretwin (talk) 23:31, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

You mean state with island? The name of the state is Ireland, the island is clearly differentiated in the sentence. Editing your opinion against what IMOS states and clearly shows as an example isnt very good. Are you on a one revert per article per week probation ? If you are these [3] [4] four days apart dont seem to concur with that.Murry1975 (talk) 23:47, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm not aware of such a probation. Where did you hear about this? Mooretwin (talk) 23:57, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Here [5] and you have it on your block log. [6] only the duration of the block was reduced not the lenght of probation, so I take it you dont read these things?Murry1975 (talk) 00:05, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Actually probably clearer here [7] "Independently of the block or ban, I am also re-imposing the one revert per week probation upon Mooretwin for an indefinite duration". This help you ?Murry1975 (talk) 00:22, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

How on earth did you find that and how on earth could you be bothered. I'd forgotten all about it, but the "indefinite probation" was overturned nearly two years ago. Mooretwin (talk) 01:20, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Block log, told you where I found it. An indef probition is a bit long, but it doesnt state the the prohibiton was reduced on the block log "changed block settings for Mooretwin (talk | contribs) with an expiry time of 2010-02-16T22:07:18Z (account creation blocked) ‎ (Reducing block, per discussion at AE: http://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&oldid=344006251#Result_concerning_Mooretwin)". Why was I bothered? I was curious. I am quite curious bud, you may have noticed that. I read things, alot.Murry1975 (talk) 01:44, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

[8], [9] a bone to chew? Continually editing against IMOS. I have read over your edits and interacted with you in good faith on here. But the same record all the time. Murry1975 (talk) 02:00, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Probation isn't a block so I guess that's why it's not on the block log? Mooretwin (talk) 09:55, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Info Box

While fixing some odd editing I realised that the 2006 census breakdown contains Irish Traveller as an ethnic group, but in Ireland they are not classed as such but a socail group. Is there a reason for this discretion for this? Murry1975 (talk) 21:55, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

When was irish last dominant in Dublin?

When Was Irish last spoken in Dublin as the majority toungue? Abrawak (talk) 08:59, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

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What are the subdivisions of Dublin?

Dublin can be politically broken down into six constituencies.

It can also be broken down into Walkinstown, Crumlin, Templeogue, etc.

The individual articles refer to these divisions as "suburbs" but that term is not widely used in Ireland - neither in informal conversation, nor in the media. So what are those things?

People usually say "What area are you from?" - but there's surely a more precise word than "area". Any ideas?

"Estates" also exist ("housing estates"), but they're subdivisions of the above "areas". The article List of Dublin postal districts uses the term "areas". Gronky (talk) 11:08, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

After more thinking, I think "areas" is right. Anyone know where we'd find a law that discusses the boundaries of these areas (which would confirm that they exist)? Gronky (talk) 11:36, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

http://www.dublintourist.com/towns/ a link to a tourist website. It really doesnt make it any clearer, some are towns some are areas, I presume depending on if they where old towns that merged as Dublin grow or areas, by both being a out together "area" or being a historic area which had very little settlements or people. Murry1975 (talk) 07:10, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, that's food for thought alright. I wonder if all counties and the whole country is divided into "towns and areas". When I get time, I'll stick that whole list of "towns and areas" into some search engines and maybe some legislative pages will crop up with declarations about what these things are. Thanks. Gronky (talk) 22:00, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Towns, townlands, and villages mainly, some still are referred to parishes- even if this is rare. Just ran a quick search

http://www.irish-place-names.com/

http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/placenames/

http://goldenlangan.com/map.html

Hope this helps. Murry1975 (talk) 07:16, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Inaccuracies

Firstly "became the island's principal city following the Norman invasion" in the introduction. Although I cannot claim to be an expert in this area, as far as I know Dublin was already the major city when the Normans arrived. The last high kings were crowned in dublin. I'm just wondering if this statement is inaccurate. Secondly the Act of Union is more commonly denoted with 1801 (when it came into effect) rather then 1800. It is completely inaccurate to say Dublin was a Fianna Fail stronghold and any reading into Irish politics will inform you that Dublin cannot generally be classed along political lines like this. I do not think the Anna Livia can still be classed as an attraction. Very few people are even aware that it is now outside Heuston. Dublin's road map is not updated to most recent standards as far as I can see.

Tribunicia (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:02, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Sport

I do not believe "Croke Park is Ireland's national sports stadium" so I would suggest that this be removed unless a credible citation can be found. It is the major venue for Ireland national sports but that is something else. Stating that it "traditionally" hosted some Gaelic games and altered this since renovations is factually incorrect. The international rules games were played there since 1984 while the redevelopment started in the 1990s (and before the redevelopment it also hosted Baseball, American Football and Boxing, ignoring the 1901 soccer match before the GAA owned it). The use of Croke Park is a contentious issue and it seems far more sensible to minimise this content on the Dublin page rather then trying to negotiate careful wording around the issues.

Landsdowne road was not "replaced" by the Aviva, it was simply redeveloped and renamed (though the new name is not commonly used in Dublin).

Leinster Rugby have their own ground in Donnybrook which they still use for some pre-season games, the A side and is used for many schools games (and also by two club sides). The main side generally plays in the RDS with some Heineken Cup games moving to Landsdowne Road (and other occassional special fixtures such as "The Last Stand" a league game Vs Ulster as the last game in the "old" Landsdowne Road before it closed for redevelopment) and one (so far) in Croke Park (see first paragraph, good luck working that in).

Leinster Rugby, both the provincial side and the Dublin clubs playing in the Ireland and Leinster leagues, deserve far more of a mention then the single line they receive (in comparison to the paragraph on Soccer).

The annual Six Nations Rugby matches are also a major annual event in Dublin. Only the All Ireland Gaelic finals could possibly rival them for the title of the primary (regular) Irish sporting events, both deserve an explicit mention.

The two Greyhound tracks (Shelbourne and Harolds Cross) are worthy of mention similar to the horse racing tracks.

Anything beyond a passing mention of Aussie Rules is wildy out of place. I'm a bit of a sport nut and have heard far more about American Football in Ireland over the years then Aussie Rules. Two long sentences including a sneaky link to a sponsor seem planted. If Aussie Rules is worthy of a mention here then so does just about every other sport played in Dublin such as Softball or Tag Rugby which would both have far larger numbers of players.

The roller girls mention also seems silly and not notable, sorry ladies.

Wimbledon's claims they wanted to move to Dublin is also stretching things for inclusion in an article on Dublin.

No mention of Cricket? There are many clubs in Dublin, the oldest (Phoenix Cricket Club) dating back to 1830 with a number of others going back to the 1800s. Trinity College hosted Irelands only Test match to date (Ireland Women Vs Pakistan) and plans are afoot to develop an international venue at Malahide Cricket Club (Clontarf currently hosting Dublin based mens internationals). International qualifying tournaments (e.g. World Cup Qualifiers) and European Championships have used a number of Dublin grounds. Leinster Cricket Clubs ground in Rathmines hosted Irelands first ever Rugby international. Yes I'm cricket biased, but given the worldwide attention received by the Irish Cricket side at the last two world cups (and Ed Joyce and Eoin Morgan, both Dubliners, recent stints playing for England) it would be more notable then the Rugby League references.

As you can (probably) tell, I would really struggle to edit this and adhere to NPOV, but as it stands it is horrible. Good luck to anyone brave enough to try and improve the section, I promise I won't make life harder on you. Justnotmyip (talk) 04:27, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Ok I gave up on anyone else taking this on (though I noticed the reference to Croke Park as the national sports stadium had at least gone) and just made my best attempt to clean up the worst of the issues. I didn't address (from the above) any explicit mention of the Six Nations games or All Ireland finals and kept the cricket to a minimum just talking about the international grounds. I also barely expanded on the club rugby union (but it may be enough anyway). About the only edit I feel may have been a little too harsh was dropping all mention of Rugby League but it was stretching the bounds of notability, just name dropping a single club and making an unreferenced claim to increased popularity due to an event 5 years ago. I tried very hard to keep any POV out of things and just clean up the section into something more balanced and representative, limited to the most notable, please don't simply revert in full but feel free revert and incorporate the best of my changes or restore/edit things I've altered. Justnotmyip (talk) 13:36, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

How to add below to Article on Dublin - mistakenly deleted

References [1] http:/ / tools. wmflabs. org/ geohack/ geohack. php?pagename=Dublin& params=53_20_52_N_6_15_35_W_type:city_region:IE [2] http:/ / www. dublincity. ie/ [3] " The Story of Ireland (http:/ / books. google. com/ books?id=R688at3KskQC& pg=PA49& dq& hl=en#v=onepage& q=& f=false)". Brian Igoe (2009). p.49. [4] " Black Death (http:/ / books. google. com/ books?id=yw3HmjRvVQMC& pg=PA58& dq& hl=en#v=onepage& q=& f=false)". Joseph Patrick Byrne (2004). p.58. ISBN 0-313-32492-1 [5] " Dublin: a cultural history (http:/ / books. google. com/ books?id=gI8MYY6ASdcC& pg=PA34& dq& hl=en#v=onepage& q=& f=false)". Siobhán Marie Kilfeather (2005). Oxford University Press US. pp. 34–35. ISBN 0-19-518201-4 [6] Irish Statute Book. Local Government (Dublin) Act (http:/ / www. irishstatutebook. ie/ 1930/ en/ act/ pub/ 0027/ sched1. html#sched1) [7] Department of the Taoiseach: Guide to Government Buildings (2005) [8] It is over twice the size of New York's Central Park. [9] Richmond Park in London, England is larger in area at but is a suburban royal park. [10] http:/ / www. cso. ie/ px/ pxeirestat/ Statire/ SelectVarVal/ Define. asp?maintable=TCA01 [11] http:/ / www. luas. ie/ faqs. html#faq01 [12] http:/ / en. wikipedia. org/ w/ index. php?title=Dublin& action=edit [13] Call for improved infrastructure for Dublin (http:/ / www. rte. ie/ news/ 2007/ 0402/ dublin. html) 2 April 2007 [14] " Dublin heralds a new era in publishing for immigrants (http:/ / www. guardian. co. uk/ media/ 2006/ mar/ 12/ pressandpublishing. business3)". The Guardian 12 March 2006. [15] Foreign nationals now 10% of Irish population (http:/ / www. rte. ie/ news/ 2007/ 0726/ census. html) 26 July 2007 [16] " Dublin (http:/ / opencities. britishcouncil. org/ web/ index. php?p_dublin_en)". OPENCities, a British Council project. [17] Irish Independent – Delight at City of Literature accolade for Dublin (http:/ / www. independent. ie/ national-news/ delight-at-city-of-literature-accolade-for-dublin-2272904. html). Retrieved 26 July 2010. [18] TalkingCities (http:/ / www. talkingcities. co. uk/ quick_guides/ dublin_guide. htm) [19] Article on stag/hen parties in Edinburgh, Scotland (which mentions their popularity in Dublin) (http:/ / news. bbc. co. uk/ 2/ hi/ uk_news/ scotland/ 3578303. stm), mentioning Dublin. Retrieved 15 February 2009. [20] Dublin Food Co-op website (http:/ / dublinfood. coop/ ) ref. Markets / News and Events / Recent Events / Events Archive [21] Irish Rugby : Club & Community : Ulster Bank League : Ulster Bank League Tables (http:/ / www. irishrugby. ie/ ulsterbankleague/ tables. php) Dublin 20 Further reading • John Flynn and Jerry Kelleher, Dublin Journeys in America (High Table Publishing, 2003) ISBN 0-9544694-1-0 • Hanne Hem, Dubliners, An Anthropologist's Account, Oslo, 1994 • Pat Liddy, Dublin A Celebration – From the 1st to the 21st century (Dublin City Council, 2000) ISBN 0-946841-50-0 • Maurice Craig, The Architecture of Ireland from the Earliest Times to 1880 (Batsford, Paperback edition 1989) ISBN 0-7134-2587-3 • Frank McDonald, Saving the City: How to Halt the Destruction of Dublin (Tomar Publishing, 1989) ISBN 1-871793-03-3 • Edward McParland, Public Architecture in Ireland 1680–1760 (Yale University Press, 2001) ISBN 0-300-09064-1 External links • Dublin City Council (http:/ / www. dublincity. ie/ ) – Official website of the local authority for Dublin • Dublin Tourist Board (http:/ / www. visitdublin. com/ ) – Official tourism site • Transport for Ireland (http:/ / transportforireland. ie/ ) – Public transport website • OPENCities participant (http:/ / opencities. britishcouncil. org/ web/ index. php?p_dublin_en) • Sampling Dublin's Theater Scene (http:/ / www. nytimes. com/ slideshow/ 2010/ 08/ 27/ travel/ 20100905DUBLIN. html) – slideshow by The New York Times • Alternative Dublin Guide (http:/ / www. hidden-dublin. com/ ) Dublin Guide • Dublin UNESCO City of Literature official site (http:/ / www. dublincityofliterature. ie/ ) • Irish Video Website Dublin & National (http:/ / www. tourclipper. com/ ) • Gaelscoil stats (http:/ / www. gaelscoileanna. ie/ assets/ StaitisticÃ-2010-2011_Gaeilge. pdf) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.1.255.146 (talk) 18:42, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for letting us know. I've put back the deletions you mistakenly saved in Dublin, Trinity College, Dublin, and Phoenix Park. -- HighKing⁺⁺ 18:51, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

typo in motto on pictured crest

the crest says UBRIS - it should say URBIS

Fixed. Hogweard (talk) 15:06, 6 December 2014 (UTC)