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Per mille instead of percent

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I think the use of percent of alcohol in the blood is a wrong way to explain the law. In Denmark we use per mille and I also think they also do that in the rest of Europe. 5 per mille is easier than 0,5 percent — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.185.33.192 (talk) 06:36, 16 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to add that the symbol for Per mille exists and has its own wikipedia page, so there is no reason not to use it. The fact that it is not as common just means that the symbol should be explained and pointed out, it is not a reason to not use it. In further addition, I would like to argue that using values in percent will be extremely confusing if the de facto standard for brethlizers is per mille and not percents, comparing the numbers will then confuse less knoledgeable people. Dragomang87 (talk) 17:43, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is not so clear. In France the limit is counted as gramm per Liter of blood such as 0.5 gramms per Liter. For instance(s):
  1. "I.-Même en l'absence de tout signe d'ivresse manifeste, le fait de conduire un véhicule sous l'empire d'un état alcoolique caractérisé par une concentration d'alcool dans le sang égale ou supérieure à 0,80 gramme par litre ou par une concentration d'alcool dans l'air expiré égale ou supérieure à 0,40 milligramme par litre est puni de deux ans d'emprisonnement et de 4 500 euros d'amende." Article L234-1
  2. "Une concentration d'alcool dans le sang égale ou supérieure à 0,50 gramme par litre ou par une concentration d'alcool dans l'air expiré égale ou supérieure à 0,25 milligramme par litre et inférieure aux seuils fixés à l'article L. 234-1, chez les autres conducteurs" Article R234-1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.120.88.229 (talk) 17:21, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is discussed in the blood alcohol concentration article - there are 3 distinct units, %, per mille, and mg%. In global comparisons, I have always seen %. Per mille is mostly specific to the EU and mg% is even less used. I think it is fine if when quoting actual laws, the original unit appears, but otherwise I would say for standardization, it should always be %. Mathnerd314159 (talk) 18:37, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What does "zero" mean?

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Brazil, for example, is "zero". What does that mean? If you have even .000 000 000 01 percent (1/100 millionth of a percent) blood-alcohol level, you're guilty? What if it's from the alcohol content in medicine? Or does it mean there is no penalty for being intoxicated? Or does it mean that even if police can't measure your level because it's so low, if they think you've drunk alcohol lately or you admit it or there's witnesses who say you have, they'll bust you. Please explain!

The list giving only "zero" or a percentage level for most countries does not provide enough information about the consequences. For example, El Salvador states a percentage, but not the consequences. I've heard that El Salvador puts first offenders in front of a firing squad so there are no repeat offenders in that country. GBC (talk) 07:38, 28 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It seems either relying on a standard error of given alcometer or a kind of populism to demotivate drunk drivers by fear and corruption.--213.208.170.194 (talk) 07:59, 17 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"zero" means "no more that may happen to occur naturally without drinking". We have that for driving beginners, and when I was out for my first free weekend of compulsory military service, they thought it appropriate to get a judge teach us about the alcohol driving laws around here (Germany): I was told by this judge that in practice, this means you must be below 0.02% (or 0.2 o/oo as we prefer to call it).--2001:A61:20C2:7A01:4817:C372:C1F6:2BCE (talk) 21:17, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Change to Queensland Drink Driving Law

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As of July 1st 2010 provisional license holders over 25 must have a 0 blood alcohol reading. http://www.gladstoneobserver.com.au/story/2010/06/17/zero-tolerance-for-p-plate-drivers-police-alcohol/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 113.197.1.208 (talk) 23:18, 3 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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China source link "http://www.ctstc.org.cn/wz.aspx?id=512 Ministry of Public Safety" redirects to a commercial site selling shirts. Also, its seems the PRC has a Ministry for Public Security not Safety. Needs fixing by someone who can read Chinese and can navigate to the correct page at http://www.mps.gov.cn/n16/index.html assuming this is where the information is to be found. IanRiley (talk) 10:58, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

European map does not match the article data

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Ireland and the UK are shown as green - corresponding to 0.08%, but the article states the limit in Ireland is 0.05%. Dainamo (talk) 09:50, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed it. Tbp386 (talk) 13:15, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Latvia is wrong as well. Cpflieger (talk) 19:23, 19 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Dubious

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Alcohol is not banned in Pakistan, Alcohol is only banned for Muslims (97% of the pop), while non-Muslims are allowed to consume and manufacture alcohol in Pakistan with a permit. [1] Moreover, the law turns a blind eye to alcohol consumption in Pakistan even for Muslims, many of the western hotels in Pakistan serve alcohol. Personally I have never heard of a drink driving limit in Pakistan, that is not even part of the penal code in Pakistan so the claim is dubious and not encyclopedic, and violation of wiki policy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.107.133.46 (talk) 13:55, 23 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ http://www.indianexpress.com/news/ppp-leader-says-alcohol-should-be-easily-available/927232/

Respect Privacy PLEASE

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Please consider removing the names of INDIVIDUALS who were convicted of DUIs/DWIs. The article lists the names of actual people convicted of DWI/DUI (e.g., Russian diplomat, Canadian citizen, etc.). Is it now the policy of wikipedia to post the names of individuals -- have the wikipeda articles devolved to gossip-magazine content? Using the excuse about the information being part of the "public" record does not justify character assassination. Would the authors who write such articles like if others posted the "public" criminal records concerning them or members of their families? I doubt it. As such, I suggest wikipedia hold itself to higher standards than the mug-shot websites that practice reputation-destruction-for-profit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.226.22.238 (talk) 03:21, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It has encyclopedic value. The Russian diplomat case was the trigger for a crackdown on drinking and driving by diplomats (although, I note, that reference are missing for that entry). The second case is notable as the most severe punishment handed down by the court for a case without a fatality. Singularity42 (talk) 10:49, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Suggestion -- list that info, but without listing the names of individuals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.226.29.2 (talk) 21:52, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Citations needed

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This article suffers from lots of anon editors coming in and changing a BAC limit to some other value on the basis of "I live there, and that's how it is". Another editor then comes in, and says "No, I live there, and this is how it is". In an effort to cut this all back, and to encourage verification, I have added citation needed templates to all the entries that do not have references. I know it takes down the aesthetic value of the article with some many "citation needed" templates, but I do not see how else to encourage verification for what is in this article. Singularity42 (talk) 14:28, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Bicycle

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Please list limits for riding a bicycle.

In Poland the drunk driving law applies to bicyclists too, and 45% of imprisoned people for DUI were riding bicycles [1]. In fact it makes more sense to drive a car under under influence than a bicycle, because bicyclists are much more often controlled. Fdvcx (talk) 22:18, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Resolved

From this diff. -- benzband (talk) 16:24, 29 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'll take a look at the issue later this week (or the weekend at the latest), unless someone beats me to it. I'm assuming this has to do with the Justice Department changing their urls in 2011, and that this article probably got missed when we were updating all of the Canadian-specific articles. Singularity42 (talk) 16:50, 29 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
And fixed (only the one link had to be fixed, so easier than I though). Singularity42 (talk) 16:56, 29 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

China 0.78%

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Does China actually have a rule about 0.78% ? That amount is not normally reached by a living man. Maybe someone mistranslated "per mille" by "per cent" or forgot a 0.--91.34.206.212 (talk) 10:12, 18 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Below detection limit, 0 limit, no limit, etc.

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An article wide decision on how the various corner cases of limits should be denoted needs to be made. The Europe section is off doing its own thing. 217.28.2.225 (talk) 04:30, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

El Salvador and Bulgaria

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In El Salvador, the punishment of dui is firing squad. In Bulgaria, first time dui is forgiven but second time the criminal will be executed. But why these are not mentioned in this article?--210.195.179.61 (talk) 15:47, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Why did we change units for U.K.?

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This article shows bac but for the U.K. It switched to mg/ml. Very confusing. Any reason not to standardize the units in the article? RobertGary1 (talk) 17:27, 18 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Israel: 24 mg/100 ml in breath?

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If I understand correctly, Istael's figure of 24 mg/100 ml in breath is quite a lot. I suspect it meant "in blood", maybe "(indirectly) measured by analyzing breath". —Cousteau (talk) 23:34, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

not applicable

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A number of countries say "Not applicable, alcohol is banned." Is there meant to be some sort of implication that the latter is the reason for it not being applicable? Because this just doesn't follow. I can easily conceive that a country might ban alcohol or other drugs and nevertheless penalise driving under the influence (whether at any detectable level or whether at a particular level). People might after all have consumd items illegally, and maybe even before entering the country. I suspect some western countries penalise driving under the influence of illegal drugs and it might be a separate offence from possessing or consuming them. 213.205.193.30 (talk) 19:42, 17 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Malaysia

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Suggest leaving in place only the recent (from 2020) changed limit. Now there's both stated. 202.187.235.175 (talk) 04:11, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Has Egypt a limit or not

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Egypt is listed in the counties without limit and having a limit of 0.05..

A Crime?

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First sentence states that driving with alcohol is a crime. For sure driving with alcohol is unsafe. While it might be obvious it is a crime in some countries that does not mean it is a crime in other countries. I guess the meaning of "crime" is not the same in each country. For instance, in France, driving with alcohol might be punished by removal of points from the driving licence, by fine, and/or by jail. Does that make it a crime? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.120.88.229 (talk) 17:27, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If an act is punishable by incarceration, it is reasonable to describe it as a crime. Arllaw (talk) 02:32, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am not sure that incarceration is the main punishment for drink driving...
After checking the definition of crime both in English and in French dictionaries, in theory, you are right for English language which is the language of this page.
In practice, some inconsistencies might remain, for instance if at least one country consider incarceration as a crime in one case and as a misdemeanor in other case:
  1. "Poland: 0.02% (misdemeanour, punishable by fine and 10 penalty points, suspended sentence of up to 30 days of jail and possible driving license suspension for up to 3 years),
  2. 0.05% (crime, punishable by fine and 10 penalty points, suspended sentence or mandatory sentence of jail up to 2 years, possible driving license suspension from 3 years up). (...)"
So I believe that for an international audience, if a condition should exist, it might be acceptable to use the word crime in the introducing summary if it is worded in a way to make a clear and understandable discrimination between the crime which reasonably describes incarceration on one hand and the crime which is a specific national legal category on the other hand — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.120.88.229 (talk) 12:43, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would still say that a misdemeanour is a crime, or at least a criminal act. But there are also countries where offenses are purely summary offenses. It seems easiest to avoid this issue - there is a law, there is a penalty, the nature of the penalty varies and whether it is a criminal penalty or a civil penalty or so on is somewhat of a gray area. Mathnerd314159 (talk) 18:31, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Adding a section for the European Union and EFTA countries

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I suggest the addition of a section for the European Union and EFTA countries. The rational, proposal and sources are here under.

Rational

The current introducing summary states: "The laws of driving under the influence vary between countries. One difference is the acceptable limit of blood alcohol content before a person is charged with a crime. Thresholds range from the limit of detection (zero-tolerance) to 0.08%. Some countries have no limits or laws on blood alcohol content. Despite drinking alcohol being allowed in countries such as Bahrain, the legal BAC for driving is 0.".

It dramatically does not reflect well the situation of the countries withing the European Union.

Proposal
Around one quarter of the people killed in a traffic crash in the EU are considered alcohol-related. (D2. page 4)

Estimations suggest a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) of 0.5 g/L increase by 40% the risk of crash compared to a sober driver. (D2. page 4) A rate of 1.0 g/L multiply by 5 this risk. A rate of 1.5 g/L multiply the risk by 20. (D2. page 4)

One of the Safety Performance Indicators defined in the European is related to alcohol and defined as the “Percentage of drivers driving within the legal limit for blood alcohol content (BAC)”.(D1, §2.3, page 6) To help the drivers to not drive under the influence of alcohol, legal frameworks have introduced a range of sanctions for non-compliance with a BAC limit. (D1, §5.1.1, page 14) Such BAC limit may be defined by driver categories such as standard, commercial drivers and novice drivers. (D1, §5.1.1, page 14) Such limits are enforced by the police, by roadside checks. (D1, §5.2.1, page 1)

Known countermeasures against impaired driving include policies to decrease alcohol consumption, to reduce drink use before driving, stricter laws and police enforcement, alternative transport means, awareness campaigns, rehabilitation courses, safety culture in companies, alcohol interlocks, and in-vehicle technology that warns or intervenes. (D2. page 4)

Specifically, the EU Driving Licence Directive 2006/126/EC states that ‘Driving licences shall not be issued to or renewed for applicants or drivers who are dependent on psychotropic substances or who are not dependent on such substances but regularly abuse them, whatever category of licence is requested’ (D2. §4, page 13)

European (and global) evidences suggest that favorable effects are obtained by combining reduced BAC limit and randomized police checks. (D2. §5.2, page 14) At the opposite, there is no evidence that more severe penalties would have a beneficial effect (D2. §5.2, page 14) For instance, In France in 2023, alcohol penalties were applied to 71 405 drivers including 18 834 by jail (nearly 25%) 163 by DDSE (stay at home) 34 744 by fine, 17 612 by peines de substitutions (other punishment) 33 by punishment and scholar or educative measure and 19 were not punished. (D3, §II.2, page 93) The same year, there were 168 520 infractions for driving with alcoolémie, including 112 648 délits (see Note N1) (75%) (D3, page 8) Also 460 000 points were removed from driving licenses due to alcoolémie (D3, page 9)

Sources
  • D1: European Commission (2023). Safety Performance Indicator report – Alcohol and drugs. European Road Safety Observatory. Brussels, European Commission, Directorate General for Transport
  • D2: European Commission (2023). Road safety thematic report – Alcohol and drugs. European Road Safety Observatory. Brussels, European Commission, Directorate General for Transport.
  • D3: Infractions au code la route – Bilan de l’année 2023 – ONISR 2024, OBSERVATOIRE NATIONAL INTERMINISTÉRIEL DE LA SÉCURITÉ ROUTIÈRE, Les infractions au code de la route – L’impact sur le permis à points – Bilan statistique 2023, Septembre 2024
Notes
N1:
  • Taux légal d’alcool:< 0,5 g/l de sang et < 0,2 g/l pour les conducteurs novices et les conducteurs de transport en commun.
  • Taux délictuel d’alcool :≥ 0,8 g/l de sang

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.120.88.229 (talk) 15:10, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Rationale: It dramatically does not reflect well the situation of the countries withing the European Union." The current state is discussed in Table 2 of [2]. The BAC limit does indeed vary from 0 to 0.08% in the EU, as stated in the introduction here.
I have updated the relevant countries based on the table - most of the countries were in fact accurate. Actually that table is in error, it says Switzerland has 0.8 g/L levels when in fact the original shows these levels are from the UK and the correct level is 0.5%. Regarding the rest – risk levels, campaigns, number of arrests, and such – these are not part of the drunk driving law. Some of these are discussed on the main drunk driving page, that page has a US bias so that would be the place to include an EU / French viewpoint. Mathnerd314159 (talk) 18:11, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
While some points are not part of the drunk driving law, they might be the causes and the consequences of such drunk driving law. Thus, such link might be addressed.
Law, might not be limited to BAC. If we consider an EU directive as a law, or at least as a legal act, two extracts from EU Driving Licence Directive 2006/126/EC here-under:
  1. "Content of the theory test concerning all vehicle categories / Questions must be asked on each of the points listed below, (...) as well as changes in driving behaviour due to the influence of alcohol"
  2. "Alcohol consumption constitutes a major danger to road safety."
Also, alcohol or drink-driving, for the purpose of "cross-border exchange of information on road-safety-related traffic offences, and thereby facilitating the enforcement of sanctions, where those offences are committed with a vehicle registered in a Member State other than the Member State in which the offence took place" is included in the scope of the "Directive (EU) 2015/413 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 11 March 2015 facilitating cross-border exchange of information on road-safety-related traffic offences"
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