Talk:Disappearance of Robin Graham

CHP Policy

So, CHP policy was changed, but to what effect? What do they do with stranded female motorists now to ensure their safety? 86.2.38.112 (talk) 11:19, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't know what current CHP policy is, but the change made in 1970 involved increased monitoring, coded radio transmissions, instructions to stay inside the car with doors locked and windows up until the summoned tow-truck driver appears or officers return, etc. LynnMaudlin (talk) 07:44, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if changed CHP policy would have made a difference to Robin seeing as she seemed to have got into the Corvette willingly. The CHP officers on duty that night could have prevented her abduction by verifying the man's identity before driving off.--jeanne (talk) 07:31, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

It's an interesting question. They couldn't have stopped her from getting into a car with a stranger but one assumes that he wouldn't have stopped to pick her up if the CHP had been more present. LynnMaudlin (talk) 01:37, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

No he would have likely driven off, especially if he'd been the man who had abducted Rose Tashman. I'm curious as to whether or not the CHP who phoned the Graham home and spoke to Robin's sister relayed the information to Robin that her parents were out and hadn't yet come home. That would perhaps explain why she accepted the ride with that man rather than just wait for her parents to come and get her.To me, that is the greatest mystery of all.--jeanne (talk) 06:52, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

No mystery. He could've been holding a concealed weapon on her, concocted some "emergency" story, or simply made veiled threats. Kidnappings can happen in plain sight of others; the kidnapper says something to the effect "scream and yer dead." Magmagoblin (talk) 09:55, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

I have always believed that the man in the corvette claimed to be an undercover cop and used a scare tactic to get her into his car. For instance, telling her a maniac was on the loose and known to attack women on that freeway stretch. And Robin, being only 18 years old, would have likely accepted his story, especially after the Rose Tashman murder the previous year. He may have even held a fake police badge. I knew a guy who had one back in 1974 in Los Angeles. If the guy had been pleasant and good-looking, she could have easily fallen into his trap. At 18, a girl is very innocent and trusting.--jeanne (talk) 10:28, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

The problem with the reference on this page to the December 12, 1970 LA Times article on the CHP changing their policy because of the Robin Graham disappearance (and the other LA Times references) is that it is not freely available on the Internet. It is behind a paywall. I had to go to the Los Angeles Library and pay for a copy of the referenced article. The article states exactly how the policy was changed and that it was implemented because of the Graham incident. This is now available to see on my website: http://www.TheZodiacMansonConnection.com/victim_graham.html. I also put up a similar article from the San Mateo, California The Times dated the same date. It was obtained from NewspaperArchive.com, again not freely available. This article also references other disappearances and murders with similar circumstances that occurred within a 2 year period of the Graham disappearance. TZMC (talk) 23:44, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your help on this. Regards, David. David J Johnson (talk) 09:14, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Original Talk

I will be pulling LA Times articles from microfiche to provide better citations, particularly of the fact that CHP policy was changed because of this case. LynnMaudlin (talk) 00:22, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I well remember when Robin Graham disappeared.I was very young at the time and it made quite an impression on me; especially as I bore a strong resemblance to Robin at the time.I am baffled over the behaviour of the CHP officers(how many officers were in the CHP car that stopped and spoke to her,one or two?)First of all,they lied to the police by saying they'd seen her ride off in Corvette; later they said no, they never saw her go away with man,just saw him standing at her window talking to her!!Didn't the police wonder why they lied?Another thing,Robin broke down around 2:00AM;CHP officer's directed her to SOS box around 2:00; they saw man in Corvette drive past her ,then exit at ramp,and pull up behind Robin,still around 2:00.Didn't time move ahead that night?They claimed to have spoken with Robin several times; even noticed what type of purse she carried ,yet didn't take a close look at man in Corvette-in fact they said he had dark hair in one statement,then said he was blond!!They also assumed he was the help she'd called for.SO SOON!!!Did the Corvette have wings?It would've taken at least fifteen minutes for help to arrive.Robin was a very pretty young girl stranded on the freeway; CHP officers should have questioned the identity of man in Corvette made sure he was indeed a friend or good samaritan.It would 've allowed that beautiful,promising girl to live the life she deserved to have instead of finding herself at the mercy of a maniac.God only knows what horrors she had to endure-the CHP officers could have prevented that.What also puzzles me is what on earth induced Robin to get into that car with the man since she knew her parents were going to come and pick her up?Strange, she literally vanished forever into the November night.Such a tragic waste of a decent, pretty girl.--05:23, 4 April 2008 (UTC)jeanne (talk)

I can't get into the 'shoulds' of this case; it's way too close, so I've worked very hard to be objective and factual with this article.LynnMaudlin (talk) 12:22, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

I must add that it was very likely the man in the Corvette pretended to be an off-duty cop; perhaps even showed her a fake police badge and then frightened her by saying a maniac was on the loose and subsequently offered to drive her home.But why did CHP 's fail to take down his license number?Or at least question his identity and relation to the stranded girl?jeanne (talk) 11:54, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Why is this "very likely"? Do you have any basis for the comment beyond speculation?LynnMaudlin (talk) 12:22, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

=As to those who believe in a Zodiac Killer connection in regards to her disappearance that would be the author Howard Davis.Wikipedia should submit an article on Rose Tashman.there is nothing on her.jeanne (talk) 07:20, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't think "Wikipedia" submits articles; rather the we contribute articles to Wikipedia. If you think an article on Rose Tashman would be valuable, you should write it up. That's how this page came to be: I happened across a related subject and wondered if there was a write up on this disappearance. When I discovered there wasn't, I wrote the article which was initially deleted for "lack of importance" - when I pointed out that CHP policy changed 'because' of this incident the article was restored.LynnMaudlin (talk) 12:22, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

I haven't got enough info on Rose Tashman to write an article on her. As for the possibility of man in Corvette pretending to be an off-duty cop;jeanne (talk) 13:19, 9 April 2008 (UTC)my basis for that theory comes from The Charley Project:Robin Graham,where it says that shortly after The Times wrote about Robin's disappearance, a woman wrote to the Grahams,telling them how she too had once stalled on the freeway.A man driving a Corvette stopped,offered her a ride;HE SAID HE WAS AN OFF-DUTY POLICEMAN !When she refused his offer,he drove off.I don't think it was a coincidence and neither did that woman obviously.

I was also add that I find it odd wikipedia deleted your original article.The Robin Graham case received wide publicity in LA at the time which is why I have never forgotten her name nor the circumstances of her disappearance.Actually, I remember reading about her in Teen magazine back in the early 1970's when they wrote an article about the dangers of hitch-hiking. They used Robin as an example of the danger young women face when accepting rides-or help (as in Robin's case) from strangers.jeanne (talk) 06:48, 10 April 2008 (UTC)User:Jeanne boleyn|jeanne]] (talk) 06:02, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Interesting; I don't recall the other woman story from the Charley Project article - I wonder if it was added recently? I'm also pretty certain that Robin was in her car and not her boyfriend's (the irony of her car being a retired CHP vehicle) so I wonder about the accuracy of that information; I've not read it in any of the contemporary articles (I haven't read all of them but I've read the majority).

As for Wikipedia deleting the article, that of course was done by a Wikipedia admin and I've since learned that there are a variety of philosophies about retaining or deleting pages. When I queried and made my argument it was quickly restored so I have no problem with it; I don't expect everybody to be old enough to remember the disappearance... (!) Robin is indeed an example that 'you can't be too careful'. LynnMaudlin (talk) 02:49, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

As I said,her disappearance made a deep impression on me at the time,hence I've never forgotten her name nor the photo of her in the Times.In fact,I remember my parents saying how tragic it was and my dad in particular, angry that the CHP just let her walk to the call box-at 2:00am when anyone could come along and grab her.What I don't understand is how nothing was ever discovered as to her fate or whereabouts.Perhaps a better description of her should have been circulated.The description of her in the Charley Project is vague.There is a ZodiacKiller forum which discusses Robin at length.Howard Davis mentions the woman who contacted the Grahams.The Times states that Robin was definately in her own car;her boyfriend had dropped her off at Pier One 's parking lot.Hollywood Boulevard was always full of "weirdos" and cult types.Perhaps a customer offered her a ride home after seeing her stalled car? It seems she trusted her abductor.jeanne (talk) 16:12, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

DOB addition

I'm ambivalent about this; I didn't include it myself for fear it could be used in some way - is a deceased person at risk for identity theft? LynnMaudlin (talk) 01:04, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Once a person obtains a social security number,their identity cannot be stolen.At 18 years,Robin would have had her social security number(all jobs require it).People thus only steal the identities of children who die before their third year.I think her birthday needs to be kept,especially in view of the possible Zodiac killer connection.Robin was born at the New Moon, she disappeared during the Full Moon.Rose Tashman was abducted at the New Moon.Howard Davis believes in a Zodiac link.I haven't got Rose's birthday.Anyway,the more info available on Robin the better.I think a better photo of her should've been circulated at the time.The one in the paper wasn't too clear and the description vague.I mean were her eyes dark brown or hazel?Did she have freckles?Was she pale or tanned? Also, you assume she is deceased.Do the police share that belief or is she still listed as "missing"?jeanne (talk) 07:20, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I've tried not to assume she's deceased although personally I think that's most likely (I have a hard time imagining a scenario in which she's alive and it's not worse--). The last time I saw her mother (close to 10 years ago now) she still hopes Robin is alive and will return. I would describe her eyes as medium-to-dark brown and her skin tone as somewhat pale (not olive toned); I don't remember her with freckles. Bear in mind the way things were printed in 1970 involved putting a screen into an image (literally breaking a photograph up into a bunch of dots) so newspaper photos weren't nearly as clear as they are now. Likewise xerography was still a pretty new tool and didn't handle photos well. I don't know the details of how the police handled the case re: the kinds of tools they used/distributed in looking for her. LynnMaudlin (talk) 03:01, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

The reason I mentioned the possibility of her still being alive is on account of the many diverse cults that were active in Southern California back then.I can personally remember being approached constantly by these people,especially in Hollywood.There is a remote chance she was kidnapped and brainwashed by some group.The omly drawback to that theory is her continued absence all these years.I am probably being optimistic due to the fact that her body was never found whereas all the others were.As for the quality of photos back then-well I agree with you there!All one has to do is look at our own snapshots taken in 1970-blurry,indistinct.I don't recall ever seeing any posters of her around the LA area after her disappearance.It must be a nightmare for her parents.Robin would be close to 56 now.I know there is someone out there who knows what happened to her.jeanne (talk) 05:23, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

In re-reading the article, I don't see a strong presumption that she must be dead but, while we might speculate about cults, etc., it's pure speculation and not appropriate for inclusion. I don't know any of the standard cults (for instance the ones that approached you) that were abducting people. LynnMaudlin (talk) 23:31, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree that the article cannot speculate about cults,etc.Not any shred of evidence.The cult that used to approach me back in 1972 was run by a couple named Amato or D'Amato.The wife's name was Susan.They were accused later of holding people against their will,extortion,etc.They were located in North Hollywood.I was not interested in what they had to say.Howard Davis says on the ZodiacKiller forum that he ate dinner at the Graham's house and Mrs.Graham showed him the letter that woman wrote her about the man with police ID.He firmly believes the Zodiac was involved.I'm inclined not to agree unless there was a copycat around the LA area.I don't see a connection with Robin and those victims up in Northern California.I am surprised he has not commented on this article though.jeanne (talk) 12:03, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps you mean Tony Alamo? Scary article from Intelligence Report in the outside links. LynnMaudlin (talk) 07:02, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

That's it! Tony and Susan Alamo. The numerous times their acolytes stopped me on Hollywood Blvd and the Strip with their recruitment stories! Luckily I wasn't interested. Alamo. That's the name, I had forgotten it (middle age memory loss).In the early 1970's their people were prowling Hollywood.Perhaps some of those types entered Pier One Imports and befriended Robin.jeanne (talk) 18:17, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Are you referring the the notorious "The Process" group?Magmagoblin (talk) 10:00, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

24 hours?

Did the Grahams have to wait the standard 24 hours before the police officially listed Robin as missing or was foul play immediatly suspected?--jeanne (talk) 09:21, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm not home right now so I can't confirm it but I believe that was one of the issues; I'll try to get back and confirm shortly (or, if you've got library access to any of the links from the article, I believe one of those references it). LynnMaudlin (talk) 06:45, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

The reason I ask is because of the conflicting descriptions given by the CHPs officers regarding the man in the Corvette seen talking to Robin. At first they describe him as blonde then change it to dark-haired. That discrepancy leads me to believe the police did not question them immediately following her disappearance.--jeanne (talk) 08:49, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

this is case The Doe Network:Case File 980DFCA and could it be related to case The Doe Network:Hot Case 1367 at all ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.103.152.51 (talk) 16:16, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

No. The unidentified woman's body was discovered in December 1970, and it said her face was recognizable, so obviously Robin's parents would have identified her as being their daughter had the woman actually been Robin! Besides, the discovered woman had black hair, Robin had brown. The woman was described as being 18-30 years old, but probably closer to 25-30. Robin's photo shows her to have looked no more than 20. She was in point of fact, 18 years old.--jeanne (talk) 07:58, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

A lot seems to be assumed , Case 1367 looks very much like Robin , was dna testing or dental comparison done? Did her parents ever see this case ? I'm not sure forensics was as developed in 1970 as today ? The authorities have made quite a few... er mistakes in cases over the years. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.103.223.51 (talk) 15:17, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

That girl doesn't look like Robin. This girl's forehead is higher, her eyebrows are thinner, the hair's diffferent. I'm sure the Grahams would have been notified, and dental records were available for Robin. Robin has never been heard from since 15 Novembe 1970. That tragic girl was not Robin.--jeanne (talk) 18:33, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

There isn't a photo currently linked, so I can't offer an opinion on that. Robin's hair was a medium-dark brown, not black. No idea whether detectives would have alerted her parents to this case or not; I suspect they would only ask them to come down and identify the body of case 1367 if they thought it likely to be Robin. Yes, they would have had dental records to check but DNA testing wasn't available at that time (shoot, remember that in 1994-95 juries were still very confused by DNA evidence; consider the OJ case); no idea if they did blood typing between the two women. LynnMaudlin (talk) 07:42, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

There was no physical resemblance whatsoever between the two young women. Lynn, from your comments, it appears as if you were personally acquainted with Robin; why not put her on Facebook? You never know what kind of responses the page will get? After all, even though almost 40 years has passed since her disappearance, I'm sure there are those out there who may be able to shed some light on the mystery.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:55, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

list of news articles

the following artilces have been removed from an external link section - WP:EL external lnks must not be behind paywalls. The news articles may be of value as ssources to those who can access. -- The Red Pen of Doom 16:21, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

• Los Angeles Times, November 18, 1970
• Los Angeles Times, November 19, 1970
• The Valley News, November 19, 1970 - NewspaperARCHIVE.com
• Los Angeles Times, December 12, 1970
• Los Angeles Times, June 8, 1977
• Los Angeles Times, December 15, 1987

IS that really appropriate? After all, they can ALL be accessed from a public library computer (that's where I accessed them). I think they should go back on the page as valuable resources which took me some time to find. LynnMaudlin (talk) 23:38, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

"The news articles may be of value as ssources to those who can access." How can they be of value if no one knows they even exist? I also think they should go back on the page. TZMC (talk) 06:50, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

I agree totally with TZMC, they should go back on the page for the reason TZMC has given. Regards, David J Johnson (talk) 09:54, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

you two can take your agreement to the external link guideline page and attempt to gain consensus there for a change to the guideline. but until you achieve such a change, it is perfectly clear that these links behind paywalls cannot be slapped on in an "external link section" .

and since you have access to them from your library and did not find any specific valuable content worthy of adding to the article, they must fail even that criteria as well. so i have no qualms that removing them is doing any type of disservice to the reader.-- The Red Pen of Doom 12:58, 2 September 2012 (UTC)