Talk:Dinosaur World (theme parks)

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Creationist museum and subsequent coverup

PZ Meyers hilighted this museum had a creationist agenda after which Wiki editors (correctly) added a comment to the article to reference that fact. It seems that someone would rather rewrite history than admit it, reverting edits which added creationist references. Links supporting this conclusion such as this one have now mysteriously disappeared - www.dinosaurworld.com/2011/07/25/educational-information-at-dinosaur-world/. Fortunately google comes to the rescue and the text is visible from their cache - http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.dinosaurworld.com/2011/07/25/educational-information-at-dinosaur-world/. It would do well for someone to archive it. One wonders why the theme park would attempt to hide their agenda like this.

The full text of this "Educational Information" is listed below

At Dinosaur World, we present interesting facts about each dinosaur. Examples include, what they ate and unique charactaristics of each. However, we do have many books in the giftshop including information on creationism. Below is an example.

Why is so little known about dinosaurs? Despite all the new dinosaur discoveries, little is known about the dinosaurs because all information comes from fossils and a lot of “educated guesses” have to be made.

Where did dinosaurs come from?' God created the entire universe and everything in it including all animals (Gen 1:20-25; Exodus 20:11; Genesis 1; John 1:3).

Are dinosaurs in the Bible? Dinosaur-like creatures are mentioned in the Bible including “behemoth” and “tannin”. Perhaps the best example is in Job 40.

What were the dinosaurs like? Man and dinosaurs lived together and man were masters over all God’s wonderful creatures. (Gen 1:26, 28) In the first early days, all animals were friendly and under man’s control. None of the animals ate meat or killed. God provided for all. There was no sin, no death, no evil and no disease. It was after the flood that things changed.

What happened to the dinosaurs? The Bible says that a great flood covered the entire earth. All but those on Noah’s ark were killed, including dinosaurs.

Were dinosaurs on the ark? The Bible says one set of every air breathing land animal was on the ark. (Gen 6:12-20; 7:15-16). Young dinosaurs would be small and easier to care for than the full grown ones.

What happened after the flood? After the flood, the earth was very different and temperatures had changed. Some places were very hot and some very cold. Many parts of the world were too harsh for the dinosaurs to live and much harder to find food to feed their enormous bodies. It is not just dinosaurs that have become extinct. In the last 350 years alone, almost 400 species have disappeared. After the flood man also was responsible for killing many animals. The wooly mammoths and mastodons where wiped out by humans.

What about “millions of years old”? Just because something is fossilized does not mean it is millions or even thousands of years old. When conditions are right, a bone can become filled with minerals quickly. The main ingredients are quick burial, water and minerals. Conditions during the flood were ideal for creating fossils.

MagicMoose (talk) 16:03, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OK, point taken. But let's not be too hasty--and removing "museum", for instance, was a bit silly. I noticed a flurry of IP edits, and one by an editor who may well have a conflict of interest. The article seems fairly clean, though a note on the creationist agenda may well be warranted, as long as it's done in neutral terms. If this gets out of hand, if both parties go too far and aren't keeping it encyclopedic (that is, neutral), protection from new editors may be warranted--I hope it doesn't go that far. The addition of information backed by reference to reliable sources (see WP:RS) is of course welcomed. Drmies (talk) 16:21, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- (edit conflict)Agreed. Please, everyone, keep WP:UNDUE in mind when thinking of any expansion on what is currently a one-source criticism of the park. A rational solution on how to make this about all three locations is needed as well. — Scientizzle 16:28, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Where can we get a source for this? The original webpage was taken down. The way back machine does not have that page, but a google cache exists. --Havermayer (talk) 16:27, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Splitting hairs, the necessity of...

Folks, we need to be careful and honest about the info here. The cached version of the now removed content states

At Dinosaur World, we present interesting facts about each dinosaur. Examples include, what they ate and unique charactaristics of each. However, we do have many books in the giftshop including information on creationism. Below is an example.

The creationist content is presumably derived from a creationist book (unidentified). Furthermore, the "Creation Science" section cited "Teacher's Guide" is more consistent with a non-committal position consistent with the statement "Dinosaur World is neither a creationist museum nor evolutionary museum - educational materials on both views are available in gift shop". Some will view any accommodation of creationist viewpoints as anti-evolution/pro-creation; this point-of-view may not be inaccurate. However, unless a secondary source provides the interpretation that Dinosaur World "adheres to a creationist philosophy" (or Dinosaur World states this themselves, we're in WP:NOR territory. PZ's blog post should not be considered enough to expand the criticism section beyond, say, this status, without some secondary source backup. — Scientizzle 16:48, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/14391 I know it is not much, and it is ultimately based off the Teacher's Guide, but these guys also think they are very weak on actual science. 134.161.227.70 (talk) 17:06, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think that source could prove useful. The sense I got from the materials I've seen thus far is the non-committal stance may be a pragmatic financial decision, no matter how much it may bug those that accept the scientific consensus...You might find it interesting that while they eschew discussion of evolution, the Florida park's field trip curriculum seems to be supportive of teaching global warming! — Scientizzle 17:20, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Under WP:FRINGE, the park's position would probably not be allowed on Wikipedia. They aren't Wikipedia, though, so probably not relevant to the article, but just thought it was an interesting thing to note. 86.163.112.222 (talk) 18:58, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

But a report on fringeness, if properly sourced, is allowed. Drmies (talk) 00:11, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

BTW, Scientizzle, you have done a fine job with limited means. Drmies (talk) 00:11, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

FYI the creationist page is still live on this site in other languages -- they only removed the english version: http://www.dinosaurworld.com/fr/2011/07/25/educational-information-at-dinosaur-world/