Talk:Deaths in September 2022

Krishnam Raju CoD

His hospital said He succumbed to severe pneumonia and its complications on 11.9.22 and expired at 3.16 am today due to cardiac arrest. This should translate to "complications of pneumonia", not "complications of COVID-19". He was admitted for post-Covid complications on August 5, by which time he no longer had it. At some point in over a month of ventilation, multidrug resistant bacteria and fungal organisms crept in and caused that severe pneumonia, not a virus. We can't just start blaming the coronavirus for everything that goes wrong with a person after an infection, especially when the sources clearly don't and explicitly point to the real killers instead. I fixed this part yesterday, got reverted, so let's discuss. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:35, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

I also think Chowdhury and (especially) Marías' entries that day rely too heavily on original research. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:44, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

First off, you're showing us unattributed quotes in green, but not qualifying them with links to the sources so we can make our own decisions. A few links would be good to start. Ref ^(chew)(do) 10:27, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Inline, as ever. InedibleHulk (talk) 11:26, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Here's another one listing about ten other ailments he died "with" but not "from". InedibleHulk (talk) 11:38, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for those. For me, the second of those sources (the Deccan Chronicle) hits the nail on the head right at the start of its article ("pneumonia and post-Covid complications") as any further delving just turns up a load more individual complications which were unlikely to have killed him on their own. On balance it seems to me a mixture of both the complications being mentioned - pneumonia and COVID. Ref ^(chew)(do) 17:11, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Both are mentioned in the article, of course. But the COVID (and its complications) aren't mentioned at all in the sentence explaining what killed him or the one explaining what caused the pneumonia that killed him. It's used to explain why he went to the hospital in the first place. Details like that are fine for background in the bio, but the only thing this article should consider is the cause of death.

Imagine instead if we'd said cocaine (or its complications) killed Anne Heche, simply because the sources mentioned she'd succumbed to a car crash after she used it and after its effects wore off. Others even mention a "long battle" with it that preceded the crash by years. But so what? Cocaine doesn't cause burns or blunt force trauma. And COVID doesn't cause bacterial or fungal pneumonia. All just correlation, tied together by synthesis and a refusal to consider entire sentences.

But whatever, maybe that one's just too difficult; in Marías' case, does anyone see COVID or the coronavirus mentioned at all? InedibleHulk (talk) 23:06, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

"He had contracted COVID-19 earlier." I suppose that'll be enough to convince people who want to see a connection to believe it exists. But I've now fixed that line, too. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:50, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Places of birth that no longer exist

Vlado Milunić (died 17 September) was born in Zagreb, which was then part of Yugoslavia, and is now in Croatia. Another editor insists that we should not report that he was "Yugoslav-born" on the basis that "we here not using Czechoslovak, Yugoslav, Soviet or colonial period birth". I have been here for many years and recall no such consensus. The fact is that Milunić was not born a Czech, nor was he born in Croatia, which did not exist at his time of birth. We should report his correct and accurate place of birth, and not attempt to re-write or hide history. WWGB (talk) 06:12, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

This is also relevant: Talk:Deaths in 2020/Archive 1#People born in former countries. WWGB (talk) 06:19, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

I agree that former political conglomerates, such as Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia, should not be mentioned in birth lead-ins. But his own article currently asserts that he WAS born in Croatia (Zagreb, to be exact). So I've changed him to "Croatian-born" in our entry. Let's see his article edited to remove his birth details before our entry gets changed again, if it proves the case that he wasn't born in Croatia at all. Discuss further. Ref ^(chew)(do) 07:20, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

It appears that this settles it beyond any discussion here, so the edit subsequently made to the entry by Renewal6 is a valid one it seems. Ref ^(chew)(do) 12:44, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Marva Hicks

I have added the tag next to her age at death. Please see the article's own talk page, where this age is challenged. You will note that her first recordings were made in 1978 - unlikely if she was born in 1975 ! Thanks, - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 15:03, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

I don't think the age should be there at all, and in fact I've removed it. If the cited article reporting her death is correct, it is traced back to her IMDb page, and dates of birth are not one of the few circumstances where IMDb is considered reliable. The article also points out that she graduated high school in 1974, a year before IMDb claims she was even born. Sunshineisles2 (talk) 15:28, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Like IMDB, Ancestry.com is inadmissible as a reliable source - however, for those who can access this page, the clues are there to confirm the lie that is the claim of a 1975 birth. Ref ^(chew)(do) 17:02, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

As it turns out, that's not the same Marva Hicks, anyway. Editrite! (talk) 20:53, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Editrite! Given the final birthdate settled upon for her, I had wondered... Ref ^(chew)(do) 17:44, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

Elizabeth II cause of death

The death certificate for Elizabeth II has been published. It states her cause of death as "old age".[1] Given the official nature of this document, and its medical conclusion, I don't see that we have any option other than to accept and publish that COD here. WWGB (talk) 04:35, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

I don't really know. I find it's essentially another way of saying natural causes which really isn't much of a COD. I get it's on the death certificate but I imagine that's more some kind of royal protocol so as to not saying exactly what it was. Rusted AutoParts 04:44, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

I have already mentioned the phrase "can of worms" elsewhere. If you allow any of the descriptions which signify the human body reaching it's natural end to be applied to the Queen, expect random editors to successfully argue that the term, whichever it is that is agreed here, should be applied to their favourite entry or indeed to all entries. Given that the Queen was not known to have any specific illnesses or diseases, the CoD was always going to be "natural causes" or "old age". Added text just for the sake of it - that's all it will be. And at the end of the day it's over-deferential to someone who was nevertheless a much loved monarch, including by me. Ref ^(chew)(do) 09:47, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

I was just going to say, I recall from previous talk that we generally cannot put that on Wikipedia as a cause of death - I believe the Deep State would have made them put "Old Age" for privacy reasons. Eugene-elgato (talk) 08:01, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi Eugene-elgato - you would be correct in saying that standing consensus for this project advises that we do not currently specify natural end-life causes - what we have here is a potential change to the consensus, and referring back to the standing consensus doesn't have any bearing on a "change" or "no change" decision. If you have a specific opinion which supports the consensus or supports the change, that's what we'd love to hear about. This section needs much more input before the consensus will be considered to have changed. Thanks. Ref ^(chew)(do) 13:07, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, Ref - that is completely fine. Sorry for being thick just to be absolutely sure currently what is the consensus: we do or we do not use Old Age in Recent Deaths?? ThanksEugene-elgato (talk) 17:06, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

We do not. We would only start including it if conversations like this carried a majority view (from many more contributors than so far) that we should. To be fair, this section was started on the subject of just one entry being allowed, that for Queen Elizabeth II. Exceptions aren't realistic, in my view - as I said above, it gives those who would wish to have every natural death labelled "old age" the ideal ammunition to push for the change. Thanks. Ref ^(chew)(do) 17:13, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Tony L. Bennett

Hi-the Tony L. Bennett article needs to be added to the September 26, 2022 deaths. Tony L. Bennett served in the Minnesota Legislature and died on September 26, 2022. Thank You-RFD (talk) 13:12, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

 Done Renewal6 (talk) 13:22, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank You-RFD (talk) 13:23, 9 October 2022 (UTC)