Talk:Deaths in July 2014

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Louis Zamperini

Can't we just say "subject of Unbroken"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.215.94.238 (talk) 18:12, 3 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, we could. My guess is that the editor wanted to include a link for both the book Unbroken as well as the film Unbroken (which are two different links). Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:29, 3 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly why I did that Joseph. The book was a #1 bestseller and won several acclaims. The movie will come out on Christmas Day this year directed by Angelina Jolie and produced by the Coen Brothers. Both are therefore notable especially in conjunction with the amazing life Mr Zamperini had.Sunnydoo (talk) 22:45, 3 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

But the film isn't out yet. And with both having the same title, it makes no sense to have both linked. By simplifying it to "subject of Unbroken", it addresses both. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.215.94.238 (talk) 23:41, 3 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Well, not really. Because your "Unbroken" link is simply to a disambiguation page and, hence, the least helpful of any of the pertinent links. The wording can be re-phrased somewhat if you really object to having the title Unbroken listed twice. Both links can still be included in Zamperini's entry. We might say something like: Zamperini, subject of the book and film Unbroken. (With the appropriate links to the book and to the film.) Just an idea. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 03:54, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

That could work, even though I feel with the film not out yet it isn't yet something that reflects on his life personally. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.215.94.238 (talk) 19:30, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Two points. Point 1: Whether or not the film is out yet is irrelevant. Louis Zamperini is still the subject of the (upcoming) film. Point 2: You state that, because the film is not yet out, you feel that "it isn't yet something that reflects on his life personally". But, if the film is not yet out, how do you know whether or not it does or doesn't reflect on his life personally? Also, just as in my Point #1, the death-list entry here is merely claiming that he is the subject of this film. That claim is highly sourced and not in any dispute. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 22:38, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Aye. Part of keeping Wikipedia timeless is looking forward as well as back. Standing at the present and seeing the past of the film's cast and crew, the future's pretty clear. Even you probably saw it, IP 24, when you said "yet". We're writing for every reader to come, not just the few here today. InedibleHulk (talk) 15:25, 5 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Is the POW part really notable, though? Wasn't something he did, but something that happened to him. It's already somewhat conveyed by the "military officer" and "subject of Unbroken" parts. Removing it would fit the Rule of Three. Not a huge problem, but sort of, if anyone else sees it. InedibleHulk (talk) 15:32, 5 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes it is very notable as he survived one of the most notorious Japanese prison camps after being shot down and surviving 47 days on a makeshift raft in the Pacific. It is also one of the subject headings on his Wiki page. And he was repeatedly tortured by one of the biggest war criminals of the Japanese during the War. I find all of that very notable.Sunnydoo (talk) 23:05, 5 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. The "POW" distinction is certainly notable. And, probably, one of the more notable of the many "hats" he wore. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 00:03, 12 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The whole shebang is notable, no doubt. Just figured it was adequately covered by "subject of Unbroken". Bombardier, rafter, hunter, prisoner, torture victim, national hero...all covered in the same article section. Not a big deal, though. Won't argue further. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:04, 6 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Elaine Stritch

The entry for Elaine Stritch refers to her as a double Emmy Award winner, but she won three Emmys. She also is a Tony Award winner for Elaine Stritch at Liberty. I recommend a rewrite that says:

Elaine Stritch, 89, American actress (September), winner of one Tony Award (Elaine Stritch at Liberty) and three Emmy Awards (Law & Order (1992), Elaine Stritch at Liberty (2004) and 30 Rock (2006)).

If it needs to be a bit shorter, you could leave off the parenthetical names of the three shows for which she won Emmys. Those can be easily found on her Wikipedia page. 67.211.119.3 (talk) 18:46, 17 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I added the Tony Award notation with link to the ceremony, however the "Event" does not have a native link so I didnt add it for brevity's sake.Sunnydoo (talk) 19:30, 17 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

And for the Editor who keeps trying to shorten the entry...EGOT is the criteria we use for the Acting Profession. Any of those awards (Emmy-Grammy-Oscar-Tony for those uninitiated) are considered extremely notable achievements by themselves and will automatically be placed in the entry field. The awards not only are the highest professional awards but they are all voted on by the profession itself, which makes them even more noteworthy over other content.Sunnydoo (talk) 22:19, 17 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I was just about to come to this Talk Page and write about Stritch's entry, when I noticed this Discussion Thread was already started. I think that her entry is too long. I don't think we need to list all three specific Emmy titles. They are not that crucial, and they can easily be found at her Article Page. If we insist on keeping all three Emmy titles, then should we also add the Tony title? It will read:

Elaine Stritch, 89, American actress (September), Tony Award winner (Elaine Stritch at Liberty) and three-time Emmy Award winner (Law & Order [1993]; Elaine Stritch at Liberty [2004]; 30 Rock [2007]).

I propose:

Elaine Stritch, 89, American actress (September), Tony Award winner and three-time Emmy Award winner.

Thoughts? Thanks. Also: Is there no cause of death reported? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:56, 18 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

CoD was natural causes, but have not found the specific illness of yet. I am not a fan of shortening the tag line. The Tony was a dual award with the Emmy, so it is already listed and that is also why we specifically link the ceremony to the award. Someone can click on the link and go to that specific page and look at it if they need more info. Why we dont use the generic Emmy Award, Grammy Award, etc. Could you take out 30 Rock and Law & Order and leave the dates? You could, but that would probably cause some confusion and consternation with the average reader as she was not normally associated with those programs on a weekly basis.Sunnydoo (talk) 17:53, 18 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. OK, but ... the entry is inconsistent. Why is the specific Tony award not listed, while all of the specific Emmy awards are? That is inconsistent. The average reader will have no idea about a dual award; I never even heard of such a concept until just now. Clicking the links does not address the issue I am pointing out. So, if you want to list all three Emmy Award titles, do you support or object listing the Tony title? I think it makes for an unnecessarily long entry. I mean, as far as acting ... she was not Olivier or Streep, after all. Also, when we do get the cause of death, her entry gets even longer than it already is. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 18:30, 18 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Its difficult to categorize is the first problem. It was a one-man show that not only qualified for Tony status as it was held in a NY Broadway theatre, but also qualified for Emmy status because it was shown on HBO (which is a premium channel in the US for those not from here). Secondly, I am all for adding additional detail if you want. The problem is we have a bunch of people who just access the page using phones or tablets and not computers and they complain most vociferously when the entry gets into the 2nd standard line on a computer generated formatting. Thirdly, dont besmirch someones acting chops. It takes years of dedication to win one of these awards. They just dont hand them out like candy. Only 12 people have ever one all 4 of the EGOT (yes there is a Wiki page). And only a few more have won 3 (also on that page), then think about how many actors are out there and it gives you an idea of the accomplishment. Fourthly, I doubt we will ever get the CoD because it was in all likelihood diabetes related and an autopsy was not conducted from what i understand (meaning her physician signed the death certificate). I am up for better wording if you can come up with it, but it is going to be tough not to duplicate using the term "Emmy" twice.Sunnydoo (talk) 22:53, 18 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The lights were dimmed this evening on Broadway. That is a rare honor that is only afforded so many.[1] Sunnydoo (talk) 03:13, 19 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

All the more reason her Tony Award should be explicit, as are the Emmy Awards. I will put it in. As it reads now, the Tony Award is relegated to "second class" and the Emmy Awards are presented as "more important". Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 03:35, 19 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Lucie F. Roussel

Speaking of red links ... Lucie F. Roussel, the mayor of La Prairie, Quebec died after being stung by wasps. Is she notable enough to be on the list? Probably. Lots of news reports of her death can be found by googling her name, but here are two on Canadian national news sites: [2] [3] 99.192.91.52 (talk) 21:11, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, what a horrible way to go. I never knew that one could die from "only" 15 stings? (If you don't have allergies.) When I read the article, I was expecting it to say that she received hundreds of stings. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 23:01, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The town itself is too small. The usual cut off I use is 150k (or within standard error of that). There is a different Wiki sub-project that I believe a couple of our usual editors are a part of that records strange deaths. They will probably be very interested in this one.Sunnydoo (talk) 23:16, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This article exists: List of unusual deaths. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 23:22, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Death of Joseph Wood - "botched" execution?

"Botched" is a somewhat loaded term, isn't it? There are still investigations pending on this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.178.124.183 (talk) 18:06, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

That's the common term being used by the media (about 150,000 times). We could instead use Senator McCain's terms of "torture" or "bollocks-upped" if you prefer. WWGB (talk) 23:37, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I dont understand why this is listed at all. He did not have a Wiki page before this happened and as standard protocol for executed murderers of other non-famous people, they are usually removed. His name is also piped to an event, which also usually gets you de-listed. The only thing notable in this case is his death, and that usually isnt enough to get someone listed. (see the Mayor and the Wasps above). There are a 1000+ people executed every year between China, the US and the Middle East, so I am not really seeing anything that tells us he should be listed.Sunnydoo (talk) 00:24, 25 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There's also the stuff he did that set him up to be in the right place and right time to inherit some redlink notability from the "Which expensive drug combination works better than a guillotine?" shitstorm. Far more significant coverage than a typical, straightforward execution. Not enough for an article himself, but more notable than Jumber Lezhava (just for example). Good for a month.

About "botched", it's a bit silly a word. He's dead, isn't he? But the sources have spoken. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:45, 27 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

William Schoen

Hi. There is a glaring inaccuracy, as far as the death date goes, with using the "premium" subscription source link from the Chicago Tribune (quite apart from the 'old chestnut' of having to own a subscription to that fine publication if you want to view the proof!). They have got the date wrong, by one day! This is supported mainly by an obituary at http://www.shalom2.com/in-memorial/2014/GAN%20MENUCHA/William_Schoen/ (from the website of the Funeral Home dealing with his dispatch), and, albeit less reliably I am compelled to say, from the Chicago Symphony Orchestra's "Rosenthal Archives" at http://csoarchives.wordpress.com/2014/07/22/remembering-william-schoen/ (it being a 'Wordpress'-generated site). On these basis however, I have moved the subject from July 20th to July 21st, and used the obituary link as a more reliable reference. Thanks. Ref ^(chew)(do) 13:09, 26 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Add death of Justin Carmical?

Games reviewer Justin Carmical, aka "JewWario" committed suicide on January 23rd. He doesn't have a Wikipedia page to himself, but he used to be mentioned among the crew of Channel Awesome. Anybody think his death is notable enough to include here? Keep in mind that the circumstances of his death were somewhat exceptional in his field of work. --Serpinium (talk) 14:12, 28 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

He was listed at the time, however after 30 days a red link is removed from the list per policy. If a subject is not notable himself for an article, group status does not qualify. This includes famous music band members, wrestlers, folks related to people (if they meet just a little bit of notoriety on their own merits), artists and all sorts of other folks who are parts of groups.Sunnydoo (talk) 17:39, 28 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I understand. Thanks for the explanation. --Serpinium (talk) 18:23, 28 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If the circumstances were somewhat exceptional (however that works), it'd be a good idea to at least mention it in Channel Awesome's article. Along with what he'd done for it previously, of course. There's no notability bar to clear there, things just need relevance to a notable topic and a source that says they happened. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:00, 29 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Péter Kiss

Péter Kiss was actually became MP in 1992 (see this), not 1994. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.165.239.133 (talk) 21:10, 30 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request - July 24

Walt Martin, 69, American sound mixer (Flags of Our Fathers, Mystic River, Jersey Boys).[4] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.215.94.238 (talk) 21:40, 2 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Done. <s>Utah's HG<s> (talk) 02:50, 3 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Manny Roth

Listed on July 30, but his article states he died on the 25th. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.215.94.238 (talk) 16:29, 3 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No one is going to relocate Roth? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.215.94.238 (talk) 19:30, 4 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

We have a separate level of citation. There is no source linked to his article saying he died on the 25th. The only thing listed so far was the announcement of his death on July 30th (which is why it is listed as such). When one of the obit hounds find the legacy or otherwise funeral home listing and lets us know, then we will be able to move it. In other words, just because Wiki says so, doesnt make it so unless there is proof.Sunnydoo (talk) 20:47, 4 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I did a re-check for a source listing and found one for him. He has been updated to the 25th.

Done Sunnydoo (talk) 21:00, 4 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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