Talk:Death of Ayrton Senna

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Traction vs Steering Collumn

I've been doing alot of research into the actual crash and from what I can deduce it was not caused by lack of traction or tyre pressure. The modifications one to the steering wheel failed in the corner as it was a high stress segment of the track for the steering collumn. He actually threw it out of cockpit while it was still attached to the coiled cord to prevent it from playing a part in the actual impact. There are photos of the car prior to the incident that show the failed steering collumn and modifications. Alot of information exists on the subject and I find it perlexing that a definate and accurate explaination of the crash cannot be found here on wikipedia. Go ahead slap me for original research or lack of qualification but it'll be to the detriment of accurate information. 124.190.198.64 (talk) 03:51, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Accident Analysis section

I've added an Unreferenced Section tag to the Accident analysis section - I appreciate it's always going to be a controversial topic, but some of the claims being made in that section really need substantiating. Particularly worrying is how the only source cited (the Damon Hill article) actually contradicts something which is claimed earlier in the section... I've been trying to find sources without much luck, but in the meantime I felt this needed flagging up - at the moment, it's not providing much clarity on the issue. Davery06 14:53, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I'm suspicious about the Damon Hill quote as well. My copyright senses started tingling when I read it and I'm almost certain that, rather than an interview, it actually comes from Damon's book on the 1994 season. Further evidence is the way it is clearly not written in spoken English. I read it some time ago, and I won't be able to check the reference for a week or two. The source is now a 404, so it needs replacing anyway. If anyone's got the book, please add the reference! Tbone762 18:07, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Original author

I penned most of the Senna wiki article years ago. There used to be much more information as to the circumstances of his death. But everytime I try to add them back people keep removing them. I gave up. If you want more info read past versions of the Ayrton Senna wiki article, they contain alot more information.

Citation needed

I don't know how to change it, but the font for Senna "jumping the wall" to visit Barrichello is reported by Corriere della Sera, aricle availabe online (May 3 1994) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.26.37.25 (talk) 09:57, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image caption

In the first picture the name of the race track is wrong. That's not San Marino, it's Imola! I don't know how to change it. (canciand1 07:08, 1 May 2007 (UTC))[reply]

Changed it for you, thanks for your vigilance! -- Ghostreveries 10:32, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Technical results?

Senna's accident (along with others at the time) caused several technical changes, e.g. raising the cockpit sidewall height. I'd like to see some reference to the changes, possibly in the Legacy section.

Actually, the current contents of the Legacy section don't really belong here - they belong in the main article. 76.111.42.248 20:06, 30 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Memorials

I dont know if it should be put in the main Senna article or under Legacy in here, but maybe there should be a mention of the memorials at some of the tracks after Senna's death. A number of tracks named sections after Senna with memorial plaques in that location, such as the Senna Chicane at the Adelaide Street Circuit, location of his last win. Lynx Raven Raide 12:46, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK, WNF, but...

...Real good job! --Leoman3000 13:51, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Legacy section

This section is a redundant rehash of the section in his biography page. The legacy of his fatal accident is mainly related to car and circuit safety. Karpouzi (talk) 12:28, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Time of death

The time of death would be recorded as the time of this accident, 2:17 pm local time

This is the first time I read this information. On this article (http://www.iht.com/articles/1994/05/02/prix.php), Dr. Maria Teresa Fiandri from Maggiore hospital in Bologna is quoted as saying: Senna's heart stopped beating at 18:40. Woodcote (talk) 18:18, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As it says somewhere in this article (Or it may be on Senna's or the 1994 San Marino Grand Prix page), the time that someones heart stops beating is irrelevent to the time of someone's death. Someone could be kept alive without a heart, and someone could die but with their heart still beating. Cadan ap Tomos (talk) 17:20, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

True, there are many possible definitions of death. One will most likely have been officially recorded somewhere, so the statement is in principle verifiable, and may differ from Dr Fiandri's statement. 4u1e (talk) 08:01, 28 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image copyright problem with Image:Senna accident.jpg

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opening paragraph

this sentence makes no sense: "The accidents of Senna and Roland Ratzenberger were the first fatal accidents in Formula One in 12 years yet were one of many across the whole of the Grand Prix weekend." but i wouldn't like to edit the lead paragraph in such an important article on a subject that i know nothing about. would anyone care to have a go? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.23.54.142 (talk) 22:22, 10 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, changed to something that makes sense, but I make no great claims for it. 4u1e (talk) 18:17, 11 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Frank Williams

There is some info on his page about the aftermath of Senna's death, and him being charged with manslaughter - odd that it is not mentioned here. Just a pointer. 88.105.35.1 (talk) 14:21, 12 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The summary of the Head trial is totally incorrect: "Even being found responsible for Senna's accident, Patrick Head wasn't arrested: in Italy the statute of limitation for manslaughter is 7 years and 6 months, and the final verdict was pronounced 13 years after the accident". Arrests precede trials, they do not follow convictions; the statute of limitations governs when charges can be laid, not when people are convicted - it is irrelevant here. In fact if it did apply, Head would not have been convicted! Does anyone know what actually happened at the trial?

Senna Files

In the article, the following quote is attributed to "Professor Jose Pratas Vital, Director of the Egas Moniz hospital in Lisbon, a neurosurgeon and Head of the Medical Staff at the Portuguese GP" and referenced to "Senna Files":

"These are the steps to be followed in any case involving serious injury, whether on the street or on a racetrack. The rescue team can think of nothing else at that moment except to assist the patient, particularly by immobilising the cervical area"

WTF? This "Senna Files" conspiracy website is not a reasonable source and that quote is nonsense. Bokononist (talk) 02:07, 6 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Funeral

Section about funaral is missing date. It would have been May 05, 1994. Date taken from funeral photography: http://www.corbisimages.com/stock-photo/rights-managed/0000296072-010/ayrton-sennas-funeral-at-the-morumbi-cemetery — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.185.25.243 (talk) 20:49, 8 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Disputing Edits made on 15 June 2012

An editor removed over 3,000 characters of text claiming that it was "unsourced and POV". For unsourced, couldn't {{Citation needed}} do since it's crucial information? Getting "POV" mixed with accepted facts against the Williams team in the trial is inconceivable. If the editor has this page in his/her watchlist, could I please insist s/he replies ASAP? Spa-Franks (talk) 20:59, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Alternative Theories

I feel that the alternative theories section is very poorly written. I don't have time to change it now, but am adding this comment here to alert other to it. EdwardRussell (talk) 18:38, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Reactions

I note the remark, "Some in the press demanded that Formula One should have been banned" is unreferenced - or more to the point, is referenced to another unreferenced claim. Without proper referencing there is little point in leaving it in the article. I'll give it the customary two weeks and then it will be removed in line with Wiki's rules regarding citing sources. Flanker235 (talk) 00:44, 29 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following section has been removed due to a lack of reliable referencing:

"Some in the press demanded that Formula One should have been banned and with suggestions that FIA president Max Mosley and Bernie Ecclestone were responsible due to the media's belief that the pair were only interested in making money."^[1]

If any references can be found, other than the blog referenced, then there should be no problem reinstating it. Flanker235 (talk) 02:40, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Saward, Joe (5 May 1994). "The Grim Reaper's place in F1". grandprix.com. Retrieved 10 November 2012.

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Comas/Bernard incident

@Pyrope: the 1994 San Marino Grand Prix page sources it as happening under the safety car. Furthermore, the safety car was deployed on the first lap here (although it's not hugely clear from the TV coverage whether it's lap 1 or lap 2 as we come out of replays with the SC board out on lap 2), so I'm not sure how they can drive through the yellow flags making contact? Spa-Franks (talk) 21:52, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Spa-Franks. If there is a source that definitively states when the contact took place then that would be good. I cannot access the Autosport article from the citation closest to the statement at the 1994 San Marino GP page, and no other reliable source that I can find mentions more than that the two came together at some point. The safety car is located in the pit lane, and although it was deployed on lap 1 it was well after all the running cars had passed the pit lane exit, so the field had to complete a whole lap before Senna caught up to it. Watching the replay, Senna catches the safety car on the straight between Tosa and Piratella, almost half way through lap 2, and John Watson, commentating for Eurosport, clearly states that the "yellow flag is out all around the circuit" while Senna is passing through Tamburello. Assuming that a full course yellow flag was shown at the time the safety car was deployed (which I think was the procedure then) then the whole field would have driven a significant portion of a lap under yellow flag conditions, which includes the Variente Bassa chicane, and possible Variante Alta and Acque Minerale, too. That's plenty of time for two cars to tangle. In the absence of a definitive reliable source that states when contact was made, I would be inclined to leave the statement as it is. Of course, if there is something out there that shows things one way or the other then I'm all for following that. Pyrop e 14:51, 19 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Reason why Comas drove up to the crash scene

Hi all,

This video on Formula 1's official YouTube channel seems to contradict the idea that Comas drove up to the crash scene unintentionally, which is the narrative currently presented in this article. The F1 video presents the idea that Comas drove up to the crash scene because he wanted to try to help Senna (as Senna had pulled Comas out of a crash during the 1992 Belgian Grand Prix qualifying). The citation for the paragraph describing Comas' drive to the crash site doesn't offer much evidence to support the idea that Senna drove up unintentionally either.

Perhaps the paragraph should be changed to reflect the F1 YouTube video? Any ideas/opinions on this? --GeoFryer (talk) 03:50, 3 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This YouTube video shows this event happening (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQjqmEs8sFo), and it also includes the quote in the entry where a better source was required. Jonnywithoutanh (talk) 13:37, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Saward, Joe (5 May 1994). "The Grim Reaper's place in F1". grandprix.com. Retrieved 10 November 2012.

[1]