Talk:David Bamberg

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His name is David Tobias Bamberg. Check your magic history and leave it the way it is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.96.186.40 (talk) 04:37, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Bamberg Dynasty

You should check YOUR magic history!

This is the Bamberg Dynasty:

The Bamberg family of magicians started in 1760, in Leyden, Holland with Eliaser Bamberg, the first in a line of magicians evolving six consecutive generations.

Eliaser Bamberg (1760, - 1833)
David Leendert Bamberg (1786 - 1869)
Tobias Bamberg (1812 - 1870)
David Tobias Bamberg (1843 - 1914)
Tobias "Theo" Leendert Bamberg "Okito" (1875 - 1963)
David Theodore Bamberg "Fu Manchu" (1904 - 1974)

This was taken from Genii Magazine!

--JeremeK (talk) 22:36, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I checked my magic history. The first Bamberg was Jasper, but he wasn’t a magician, but an alchemist. According to The Illustrated History of Magic, six of the first born son’s of Jasper where all magicians:

Eliaser Bamberg
David Leendert Bamberg
Tobias Bamberg
David Tobias Bamberg
Tobias Bamberg (who changed his name to Theo)
David Tobias Bamberg II

This is supported by David (Fu Manchu)’s own book, Illusion Show, “Named after his grandfather, David Tobias Bamberg showed no great magical ability apart form an enormous pair of lungs.” (Page 18) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.96.186.40 (talk) 03:37, 12 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The sentence you provided is obviously talking about David Leendert and David Tobias. David Tobias was named after his grandfather. If this was talking about Fu Manchu (and he wrote it), does it mean he refers to himself in second-person? Why would Fu Manchu write "named after his grandfather" rather than "named after my grandfather"? Since David Tobias was named after Tobias, then it makes sense that Fu Manchu was named after his father who changed his name to Theo, short for Theodore.--JeremeK (talk) 15:55, 7 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The list I gave is in Okito's autobiography called "A Short Autobiography". It was written in 1925 in which Okito notes "Fu Manchu" was "born 1904, now living, age 21 years." I don't know what the confusion is all about. But there are extremely few references towards Fu Manchu's name being ...Tobias Bamberg II compared to David Theodore.

--JeremeK (talk) 05:41, 12 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

So you don't think his autobiography is good enough? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.96.186.40 (talk) 06:15, 12 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think his father knows best. Maybe David changed his name or claimed it as something else. Wouldn't Okito, Fu Manchu's own father, know the name he gave his son? --JeremeK (talk) 22:13, 12 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I did most of the revisions for the section on David Bamberg as well as create the page on the Bamberg Magical Dynasty. I carefully researched everything and what I found was that Fu Manchu’s middle name was Tobias. I was concerned about it and asked some people on the Magic Café and they were not sure, but they too were under the impression that David’s middle name was Tobias.

I asked Norm Nielsen his opinion about it and will get back to me when he finds out for sure.

As far as Okito writing Theodore in his short autobiography, I don’t have an answer for it. I can only speculate a few things without facts. First, this is a transcript added to the internet from an issue from M.U.M Magazine. We don’t know if it was copied down correctly.

We also can refer to David Prices book Magic that stated that Okito’s recollections of dates and places were not always the best at the date of reminiscence. Of course when it comes to the name of his son, you’re correct, he should know the name of his son.

The only thing I can think of is that when he changed his name to Theo, he might have done the same for his son. According to what Norm Nielsen told me was, “Okito’s name was Tobias Leendert Bamberg and his first wife, Marie Dean, didn’t like calling him Tobi ( it sounded like a dog’s name) and named him Theodore and thus the name Theo stuck with him all his life.” Of course Norm did get his wife’s name incorrect as he didn’t marry Marie until much later. It was David’s mother Lily that didn’t like the name Toby and made him change it to Theo (Illusion Show by David Bamberg).

I know this doesn’t clear up the confusion, but at least it does shed some light on it. --Mtpascoe (talk) 00:56, 13 January 2010 (PST)

As a compromise I am going to change it like so, David Tobias “Theodore” Bamberg (Fu Manchu). Since Okito changed his first name to “Theo” he is still known as Tobias Leendert “Theo” Bamberg (Okito).

Hope this will make everyone happy. --Mtpascoe (talk) 00:44, 18 January 2010 (PST)

Why does every body find it necessary to strip away what I wrote? If you find a fact or two, fine. But, words are being changed and entire passages being left out. There are reasons why I wrote it the way I did. Please leave it alone. --Mtpascoe (talk) 01:20, 21 January 2010 (PST)