Talk:Darius Rucker/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Beloved Freak 11:21, 21 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for criteria)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
Mostly well-written, a few comments on prose and manual of style below. (Issues dealt with.)
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
A couple of missing references; some other source issues noted below. (Issues dealt with.)
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
Addresses main points of subject and stays focused.
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
No problems.
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
Can see no stability problems
It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Concern mentioned below with non-free image. The other two images are free and appropriately licensed. (Issues dealt with.)
Overall:
Pass/Fail:

For the most part, this is a well-written, interesting article. I have a few concerns listed below. The first list is of issues related to the GA criteria, the second list is just suggestions, to do with as you like.--Beloved Freak 12:37, 21 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Early life

In the second sentence, about his mother and siblings, why is the reference in the middle of the sentence, rather than at the end? Does the reference cover that she was a nurse and how many siblings he had? If not, where does this info come from?

The next reference, presumably. I don't have the print references, but I trust whoever added the print refs; it has to be from one of the two, and they're both there.

I was the one who added the reference quite some time ago, and I can't vouche for its orginal placement, but anyway, I looked the source back up, and it backs up the entire sentence.--Esprit15d • talk • contribs 20:48, 22 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"...at one point, his mom..." → ...at one point, his mother... ("mom" too informal)

Fixed.

Career with Hootie and the Blowfish

"Hootie and the Blowfish" or "Hootie & the Blowfish"? (consistency)

Ampersand.

"a local hangout called Hooters" - is this the Hooters? If this is known, link it. I'm also not sure if "hangout" might be a tad informal, but I'm not too bothered about that.

Changed to "local venue" since I'm not sure if it was the Hooters chain.

"They eventually recruited Felber. Sonefield finally joined in 1989." - "eventually" immediately followed by "finally" doesn't sound quite right. Did Felber join closer to Rucker & Bryan, or Sonefield? I'm thinking along lines of They eventually recruited Felber and Sonefield joined in 1989. or They then recruited Felber; finally, Sonefield joined in 1989. or They later recruited Felber. Sonefield finally joined in 1989.
"As a member of Hootie & the Blowfish, he has recorded..." - I'd call him Rucker here, just to be absolutely clear. I know the article's about him, but you've mentioned other subjects in between.

Fixed.

"Rucker's signature contribution to the band is his baritone voice that Rolling Stone called "ingratiating," TIME called it "low, gruff, [and] charismatic," and Entertainment Weekly characterized it as a "barrelhouse growl."" - Something's not quite grammatically right here if this is to be all one sentence. Either break the sentence into two, after "ingratiating", or remove the two "it"s, when referring to TIME and Entertainment Weekly. I hope that makes sense: ...voice that Rolling Stone called "ingratiating," TIME called "low, gruff, [and] charismatic," and Entertainment Weekly characterized as a "barrelhouse growl."

Split up.

"frat boys" - this won't mean much to many readers. Can you link to Fraternities and sororities, and perhaps put it in quotes? (Did they actually use the words "frat boys"?) Frat is an abbreviation, but I realise that "fraternity boys" wouldn't be appropriate.

Fraternity members.

"generally ignoring racists and their comments." - can we either have a quote from the band members here, or change it to something like "generally ignoring racist comments." Just slightly concerned about WP:NPOV here. It might seem like splitting hairs, but I feel like people are being labelled as racist rather than their comments. That's fine if that's what the bandmembers said, and we can quote them, (and I'm sure I'd agree with them) but otherwise it seems like it's straying into a slightly non-neutral area where Wikipedia is making judgement.

Fixed.

Link for World Series? (Despite its name, not well known outside North America)

Fixed.

Solo career

I'm concerned with the use of this non-free image. I don't think it adds anything vital to the article. Its fair use rationale says that its purpose is to illustrate his career trajectory. You mention in the article that he plays a singing cowboy in a Burger King commercial, and I can't see that the image tells us anything else. I don't think this qualifies as fair use.

Removed.

Link R&B?

Linked.

Is the Jill Scott mentioned Jill Scott? If so, link.

Yes.

Country music

Per WP:HASH, the # symbol shouldn't be used like this. Use "No. 1" or "Number 1" etc

Fixed.

"reached Top 20 on the country charts" - should this be "reached the Top 20 on the country charts"?

Fixed.

"1971 & '72" → 1971 and 1972

Fixed.

"Only one other African-American has won" - correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't "African American" as a noun be without a hypen?

Fixed.

Do we have a reference for the release of "This"?

Reference added.

Personal life

"...Rucker figured his father..." - this use of "figured" is colloquial

Discography

In the " Singles" section, it says "—" denotes releases that did not chart, but the symbol hasn't been used in the table
"Other charted songs" and "music videos" are missing references

Will get to that; split the discography in the meantime per suggestion below. No idea why Billboard and Allmusic both omit the Christmas single entirely when I know it made Top 40...

Further suggestions

Early life

As the lead is generally thought of as a summary, rather than just an intro, I'd use his full name to start this section, and give his date of birth.

Fixed.

Career with Hootie and the Blowfish

Perhaps this section header could be shortened to just "Hootie and the Blowfish"? Or "Early career"?

Changed.

I don't think it's necessary to have a {{main}} link to Hootie & the Blowfish, as they are immediately mentioned in the first sentence. I don't see the need for the extra link.

Removed.

"recognizability" - it's a word, but maybe there are better ones? (prominence, renown, fame...) Maybe that's just my taste!

Changed to recognition.

Final sentence of this section could probably be merged with the above paragraph, it's not wildly different.

Moved.

Solo career

If kept (see above), I think the image would look better on the right as on my screen, it's displacing the following suheadings

Personal life

"...and he took her death hard" - is this necessary? I would think that most people would take the death of their mother hard; it would be the opposite situation that would be noteworthy

Removed.

"His grief inspired two Hootie songs" - I think you need to either use Hootie's full name at all times, or state somewhere that they are also known by the shortened form

Fixed both of these.

Discography

Long term, it'd probably better to have a separate discography for him and move most of the extra info out of here, leaving just a simple list of his studio albums.

Moved discography.

Source check

Citations could do with a tidy, there are some inconsistencies that could probably be solved using citation templates if considered acceptable by main editors. Mostly unrelated to GA requirements though.
Titles should not be in all-capitals, even if they are in the original source
All web-only sources need retrieval dates
ref #16 (Hennessey) doens't seem to support that sentence. I can't find mention of "Don't Think I Don't Think About It", Learn to Live or Frank Rogers.

Swapped for another reference.

ref #18 (the 9513) - I think the text is a little too closely paraphrased from this source. It's not identical, but you may be aware that there is currently greater scrutiny of articles across the project, checking for copyright violations and/or plagiarism. In the case, we have:
- "the first black artist to chart a single in the country top 20 since Charley Pride last did it in 1988." (the source)
- "the first African-American singer to reach the Top 20 on the country charts since Charley Pride in 1988." (Wikipedia article)

Vocabulary has been switched, but the sentence structure is almost identical. Can this be reworded a bit more?

Also, could you comment on the reliability of the 9513?

Their staff has writers from Country Weekly (Chris Neal), PopMatters (Juli Thanki) and other reputable sites. Also, I would think that a site whose articles turn up in Google News searches is most likely reliable, and the source has been passed without question in previous GAs such as Clay Walker and Reba McEntire. Also rephrased the passage.

Ok, I'm happy with that. I wouldn't trust articles as reliable just because they turn up in google news, I'm sometimes surprised at some dubious sources I find there. I've also seen all sorts get through a GA review. I'm happy with the first part of your explanation, so I'm happy to accept the source in this context. If this goes to FA, it may receive closer scrutiny.--Beloved Freak 21:51, 22 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

ref #20 (Iomusic) - what makes this a reliable source? If it is reliable, at the moment there seems to be no mention of Rucker at that page

Swapped out for another reference from Houston Chronicle.

ref #30 (CMA Awards 2009) no longer supports the facts and needs updating (the citation would also need more information that there is at present)

Swapped that one out before you even pointed it out.

ref #36 - I'm not sure if I'm missing something, but I can't see mention of Rucker here.

Removed. Closer inspection shows that this one was spammed by an SPA.

As marked, there is a dead link at ref # 33, although this appears to be a courtesy link for a print source. It has a date, so meets WP:V. With no link, a page number would be ideal (but not a requirement)
I generally assume good faith with offline sources, but I'm a bit concerned with your comment above that you haven't seen that particular source. Have you seen any of the offline ones added? Given the problems that have cropped up with the online ones, I would be more comfortable if some of the offline ones could be checked. Do you have access to any of them? Do you know who they were added by? Is there another editor you could ask to weigh in here?

Another user added all the offline sources. I'll ask them.

I added a fair number of the offline sources (possibly all of them). I've addressed all specific concerns mentioned above. Most of these are from popular magazines that can also be found online, however. I verified one of hte sources by googling the quotes. Regardless, if you have any specific questions I'll be more happy to address them. Adding sources is almost all I do now at Wikipedia, especially since I'm not as ~~addicted~~ active as I was at one time. But I've added literally hundreds (thousands?) of references to articles. So, hit me up with any qustions :D --Esprit15d • talk • contribs 21:18, 22 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Esprit15d. I don't have any specific questions, I was just a little concerned because TenPoundHammer hadn't added a lot of these offline sources, and I wasn't sure who had. I'm happy to assume good faith now, especially as you have rechecked a couple.--Beloved Freak 21:51, 22 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

I think the lead needs to be expanded a little bit. I'd like to see some mention of his early life (no need for too much detail, just to touch on it; perhaps mention that he grew up in South Carolina, was poor etc). It's be helpful to know when Hootie formed, and that his first solo record was an R&B one. There should be some mention of the fact that he has been the first African American country singer to have certain achievements. I'd also like to see some mention of his personal life - perhaps that he has children and that his family have inspired several of his songs.--Beloved Freak 10:01, 22 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

~~I haven't checked sources/citations yet - I'll be back with that. I've not checked the lead yet either.~~--Beloved Freak 12:37, 21 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Taken care of most of the issues so far. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ^{(Otters want attention)} 19:08, 21 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Sources checked.--Beloved Freak 21:56, 21 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I've finished the review. Sorry if it's got a bit disjointed. Let me know if you disagree with anything or need clarification. Thanks for the work you've put into it so far. I'll put the article on hold so that you can address the issues.--Beloved Freak 10:01, 22 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I'm going to list the article as a GA now. Thanks for putting the work into it. I've gone ahead and made a few last changes which you can look at to see if I've messed anything up! I wouldn't mind seeing a bit more in the lead about his personal life & family, for example, but as there's not much there in the article, I was stuggling to see how to shoehorn it in, so I'll let that go. Good work! --Beloved Freak 12:35, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]