Talk:Dô

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Dô article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Africa: Mali

	Africa portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Africa, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Africa on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AfricaWikipedia:WikiProject AfricaTemplate:WikiProject AfricaAfrica articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
	Mali portal This article is supported by WikiProject Mali.

Former countries

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Former countries, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of defunct states and territories (and their subdivisions). If you would like to participate, please join the project.Former countriesWikipedia:WikiProject Former countriesTemplate:WikiProject Former countriesformer country articles

Sankaran

@Catjacket hi, what do you make of this that has the Conde of Do the same as the Konte of Sankaran? Kowal2701 (talk) 19:59, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This book pages 183-184 says Sundiata's mother was from the Kone clan in the land of Sankaran, and says Do is in Sankaran, synonymously calling it the "kingdom of Sankaran" Kowal2701 (talk) 20:21, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Conrad responded to Buhnen's argument in (to me) a convincing way, specifically addressing the Conde/Konte link. The MacDonald paper makes good arguments that Do is west of Segou, and the fact that it ties in with local traditions makes it credible. It also just makes more sense when you think about the geography and the fact that Do appears in medieval North African sources. A book on epic poetry written by a Middle East specialist is entirely irrelevant IMO. Catjacket (talk) 09:27, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The chapter was written by Kassim Kone, specialist in Mande history Kowal2701 (talk) 10:20, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It’s also a very recent source Kowal2701 (talk) 10:24, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ah my bad, the link didn't work at first so I just googled the editor and moved on.

I've found that new theories and research on West African history sometimes upset decades of received wisdom, and so even well-founded and widely accepted new arguments are sometimes ignored or forgotten in works that are focused on other questions. This article by Kassim Kone is a great example, where he mentions in passing that Ghana was sacked by the Almoravids in 1076 but, as far as I know, the vast majority of historians of West Africa at least have serious doubts about this and many reject it outright (Conrad, Fisher, Gomez, etc). The identification of Do with Sankaran is a longstanding theory that is disputed by MacDonald et al. and Conrad. I have yet to see a response to their articles from anyone actually defending the Do = Sankaran = west of Niani theory, and their arguments are compelling, so I prioritized their viewpoint here. Thanks for adding the qualification that the identification is not unanimous, though, the article definitely needed that. Catjacket (talk) 12:24, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good, I get that impression as well. Thank you for all the work you're doing! Would you be interested in making one on Malal/Kiri? Kowal2701 (talk) 13:48, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I thought about it, but we don't really know much about it, and it's not clear whether Malal = Kiri = Mali. Until some historian writes an anaysis of Malal as such, rather than just talking about Mande, I don't think we need a standalone article. Maybe better to include it in the Pre-imperial Mali section. Catjacket (talk) 14:52, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Niane in the GHoA says Malel is the same as Malal, Mande, and Kiri, and so does the Macdonald source IIRC, but it is a shame there’s no focussed literature on it Kowal2701 (talk) 15:03, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]