Talk:Crown (anatomy)/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: MeegsC (talk · contribs) 17:05, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm happy to take on this review. It will be a day or two before I post my first pass. MeegsC (talk) 17:05, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Lede

In general, you shouldn't put footnotes in the lede; everything here should be in the main body of the article, which is where those footnotes belong.

Would you mind pointing out where the footnotes are? I can't see them! :)

Footnotes are everywhere there is a number in brackets. MeegsC (talk) 15:16, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies, I now understand. I have reorganised referencing to remove references from the lead section, as per MOS:LEADCITE. Bibeyjj (talk) 16:44, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Link “pinnacle” to Wiktionary for those who don’t know what that word means. Or, even better, would "top" or "highest point" work?

Done!

What is meant by “anatomy” in the sentence “The structure and anatomy of the crown vary between different organisms including humans, birds, and whales.”? Anatomy is the study of the structure of organisms and their parts. And why list only three types of organisms in the lede? Would “The structure of the crown varies among organisms” work?

"Anatomy" and "structure" are analogous in meaning, so I have removed the word "structure" instead.

This article says the human crown is made up of “three layers of the scalp”, but the scalp article says there are five layers. Is the crown just the scalp, or the scalp and the underlying skull?

The crown only refers to the 3 layers of scalp, as is referenced in the 2nd sentence of "Structure".

Does the crown contain ventricles? Aren’t those buried within the brain itself?

I agree, the ventricles are located inside the skull with little relation to the crown. This unreferenced information has been removed.

You mention that the skull contains cranial nerves, but these are under the skull and exit the skull at its base — nowhere near the crown.

The only cranial nerve that reaches the crown is the trigeminal nerve - this has been clarified.

What’s a “dull head shape”? I don’t understand the meaning of dull here. According to our blowhole article, many whales have BOTH nostrils at their blowhole. If they have only one, it's typically the left, not the right. So this lede should either change to reflect that (with refs) or limit your lede to the species of whale that has the right nostril there. (I'd recommend the former, as limiting a general article like this to a single species probably isn't the way to go.)

"Dull" refers to a flat shape - this has been clarified. Because the key information related to the crown is to do with the blowhole (not the nostrils that may or may not form it), I have removed unreferenced information on nostrils.

Only some birds have crests. Perhaps “Some birds have a crest on their crown, used for communication and courtship.” The unnecessary words “in comparison” can get dropped, and “communication” covers “emotions” (a stretch for birds) and “aggressive behaviors”.

Done!

“The macroevolution of the human crown led to differentiating structures that are comparable between modern and archaic human species such as changes to the cranial vault.” What does this mean? Are you saying that human evolution has changed the shape and structure of the crown? If so, say that! ;)

I've clarified that evolution has led to changes in crown structure.

You don’t need the word “still” in the sentence about injuries and disorders. And injuries and disorders don’t “contain” causes, etc. A different word choice is needed here. Do any of the diseases you list actually affect the crown itself, rather than the underlying brain?

Word choices have been changed. Many illnesses that affect the crown are general scalp issues. The illnesses mentioned, whilst not crown problems specifically, present symptoms that are often specific to the crown. Their relation has been clarified.

This lede is really human-centric; you mention what the human crown is made up of, for example, but don’t indicate whether that’s the case for other groups of organisms as well. Same for the paragraph about “macroevolution” and diseases.

The basic 3-layer structure is common to all animals, although I will still need to find a reliable reference for this. I will also attempt to find more information of crown evolution in animals.

More to come! MeegsC (talk) 22:58, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Structure

A few of the same issues as the lede: how many layers in the scalp (should be in agreement with our scalp article, whichever is correct!), are ventricles in crown, etc.

As previously mentioned.

Surely it’s not the human head that’s 4-7 mm thick. ;) And what varies between people and age? Is it the thickness of the skull? Because that’s not clear in your sentence. With the current sentence structure, it’s the human head that varies — and while that’s pretty obviously true, I’m sure that’s not what you meant.

Clarified that the crown itself changes in thickness, as well as increasing in thickness with age.

In the caption for the human skull, either the word “are” should be added in a couple of places, or the full stop should be removed from the end; the caption is not a complete sentence.

Done!

There should be an apostrophe in “whales” (i.e. “whale’s”) in the caption. And the word “is” is missing.

Done!

Much the writing here needs a good copyedit; there are many places where things could be clarified and tightened up considerably. For example: The frontal bone as well as the parietal bone are separated by a range of fibrous joints called sutures and makes up the crown of the head. Earlier, you told us the crown was made up of the scalp and the vesicles! And “The frontal and parietal bones are separated by fibrous joints called sutures.” has nine fewer words than “The frontal bone as well as the parietal bone are separated by a range of fibrous joints called sutures.” but conveys the same information.

Clarifying based on previous information.

There are two parietal bones, not one, so there should be a “s” after “parietal bone” in the first sentence of the second paragraph.

Done!

At this point, I’m going to stop and wait for someone to respond. This really needs a good copyedit before I continue. MeegsC (talk) 10:23, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the delay — real life got crazy! I'll get back to this in the coming week. MeegsC (talk) 16:38, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

MeegsC, that's quite alright! Thank you for your review so far. :) Bibeyjj (talk) 18:16, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Structure, continued

I'm wondering if it wouldn't make sense to move this article to Crown (human anatomy), and hive off the (very few) bits about other organisms to a different article. As it stands right now, this is too human-centric to qualify as "broad in its coverage", which means it doesn't meet that particular GA criteria. However, if it was only about humans, that wouldn't be an issue.
Is there a muscular layer on the crown? Isn't it fibrous tissue — the epicranial aponeurosis?
Do the loose areolar connective tissue and periosteum count as part of the scalp? You don't mention them at all here.
In the first sentence of the second paragraph, I'd move "below the crown" to the front of the sentence to clarify what you're talking about. Otherwise, you're jumping right into bones, after telling us the crown was only the scalp.

Done!

"Different sutures within the frontal and parietal bone of the skull expand in a specific direction causing a symmetrically shaped human head." Sutures are BETWEEN the bones, not within them. Bones should be plural here, and the sutures expand in specific directions (rather than a specific direction), because they're not all going the same way.

Done!

Does the frontal bone have two sections? I thought there was only one of those but two parietal bones.

This has been clarified.

"The different parts the frontal bone is composed of include, the squamous, orbital, and nasal parts." This sentence needs some copyediting!

Done!

"Other structures of the human crown include blood vessels and nerves, which are essential in allocating nutrients and the transmission of information to the brain." Use either "allocating... and transmitting" or "the allocation... and the transmission" — your choice!

Went with second option - thanks!

It's the superficial temporal artery that branches from the carotid artery, not the superficial temporal vein. ;)

Thanks for spotting this! XD

"...and is able to reach the crown leading to the access of oxygenated blood from the heart." Tighten to "...and delivers oxygenated blood to the crown."

Done!

"The blood vessels within the human crown act as a barrier due to their specialised cell walls and prevent the release of harmful chemical substances within the brain through diffusion." This is not supported by the source. Are blood vessels outside the skull so equipped? Or only those within the brain?

You are correct, this would refer to the blood vessels inside the skull supplying the brain. The incorrect information has been removed.

More to come! MeegsC (talk) 19:05, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Bibeyjj what are your thoughts about the idea of splitting the animal bits out of this to make it an article about human crowns only? Can you please let me know? If you're not going to split it, then I think it will have to be failed on the "broad coverage" front. If you DO plan to split, I'll continue my review. MeegsC (talk) 23:04, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi MeegsC! I think that without content on animals the article would be very short, and would also not be broad in coverage. I hadn't considered just how much work a lot of the animal content would need to be comprehensive in nature, and think that it will be difficult to make significant improvements any time soon. As such, it may be best to fail this review and return. Bibeyjj (talk) 09:36, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, Bibeyjj. Thanks for letting me know. I'll close this out now, and will look forward to seeing the article again sometime down the road. Happy New Year! MeegsC (talk) 12:33, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you MeegsC for your excellent work on improving this article. Happy New Year to you too! Bibeyjj (talk) 13:20, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A few considerations when improving the article:

Clear up exactly what constitutes the crown. The article says only the scalp (i.e. not bone), but all of the non-animal pictures are of skulls (i.e. bone)!
There needs to be more information about the crowns of a range of other organisms; the article as it stands is too human-centric. A whale and "some birds" isn't nearly broad enough.
The headings in the injuries section should be sentence-cased, with only the first word capitalized.
Check and double check the references. For example, the reference on "Antarctica" (footnote 6) is highly unlikely to have information about the northern cardinal's crest, since that species only occurs in North America. MeegsC (talk) 12:46, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]