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Orion Acaba

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2019

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People sneakily trying to erase his involvement in the project to the point him not being mentioned in the current version of the article even once. This commit may be reasonable one since being a 1/4 part of 2 seasons show may not be enough for an entry in the main cast table, but this one lacks any good will and is in clear violation of rules, since it brings the not applicable WP:ORIGINAL as the removal reason and falsely describes the changes. I am reverting the later commit and asking for active contributors' vigilance, since I am most probably not going to monitor this article for long. 77.1.94.167 (talk) 08:55, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

WP:V, specifically WP:PROVEIT, states it's not appropriate to restore unsourced material. The Destructiod source[1] proves Orion's previous involvement; but gives no leaving date, episode involvement, or mention of his character. I will reword your restored entry until a source with that information can be found. Little pob (talk) 10:52, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Isn't the studio's CCO's word, publicully announced in the show itself a valid source? 77.1.94.167 (talk) 11:50, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It is valid; but it's also a WP:PRIMARY source, and we're restricted in what statements primary sources are used to support. Having (quickly) read WP:BLPPRIMARY, I'd like to err on the side of caution and avoid using it at all for Orion's departure... which isn't the same as saying he shouldn't be mentioned. Little pob (talk) 12:19, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Found sources that state he played Tibs and the character race and class. Just need a source for his departure date - I suspect using the date of the last YouTube video he appeared in would fall foul of WP:SYNTH. Little pob (talk) 12:39, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I think most of the content around Orion that was removed for being WP:OR has now been reinstated with references. In the few instances where WP:primary sources have been used, I've only used them to support WP:NPOV statements around his departure date, and that Tiberius is not in the animated series. (I doubt Orion will be cast in the project; but the source only states that Tibs won't appear.) Little pob (talk) 13:36, 15 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

2020

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I've reverted the change that increased the number of players mentioned in background from 7 to 8. Although there is WP:RECENTISM to take into account, Orion hasn't appeared on the show since C1E27 (~8.5% of episodes), and guests appearances are infrequent plus they aren't technically cast members. I do, however, feel something about Orion's departure can be added to the end of the second para of background. Given the lack of information available (presumably there's a gag order on all parties); there's not much that can be said other than he left after C1E27 and Tibs is in the comics. Little pob (talk) 13:53, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with the number of players being 7 especially as the show has moved onto a new campaign but that the Background section should probably mention his departure. Otherwise, Orion has been kept in all the places that list cast members (per MOS:TVCAST) as far as I can tell. The only formatting issue might be with the cast table which I think technically should be "ordered according to the original broadcast credits". There definitely is a lack of RS on what went down; the SyFy Wire review of the new CR coffee table book alludes to it: "In addition to recounting Critical Role’s early days (although not a full history — longtime Critters will probably be unsurprised to know that controversial moments like original castmember Orion Acaba’s exit are largely glossed over)".[1] Also, Little pob is probably right about the gag order; Orion's podcast/youtube show about Tiberius got taken down and then republished with the main character renamed and Tiberius was written out of the comics in issue 1 of volume 2. But there hasn't been any coverage of that outside of forums/social media which are not RS. Sariel Xilo (talk) 17:26, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I've added 3 sentences. As usual, my wording can probably be improved. I don't have the coffee table book; but if anyone is adding more about Orion's departure, please bare in mind WP:NPOV, specifically WP:WEIGHT. Little pob (talk) 18:47, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

2021

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Emily Friedman's essay in the book Roleplaying Games in the Digital Age: Essays on Transmedia Storytelling, Tabletop RPGs and Fandom (2021) is really the first analysis of Acaba's departure I've seen & highlights there was a lot of fan speculation.[2]: 195  I've included a quote in the article; I think there might be more but I was limited to the google books preview. Sariel Xilo (talk) 19:29, 16 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

2023

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See Talk:Critical Role/Archive 5#Inappropiatness of calling Acaba a 'main cast member'. Sariel Xilo (talk) 20:28, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Grebey, James (2020-10-20). "The World of Critical Role traces the series' journey from 'The Shire' to 'Mount Doom'". SYFY WIRE. Retrieved 2020-11-11.
  2. ^ Friedman, Emily C. (2021). "Narrative Time in a Live-Streamed Tabletop RPG". Roleplaying Games in the Digital Age: Essays on Transmedia Storytelling, Tabletop RPGs and Fandom. Stephanie Hedge, Jennifer Grouling. McFarland. pp. 187–204. ISBN 978-1-4766-4201-7. OCLC 1239982762.

Starring order (infobox)

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We had the starring order in the infobox as Travis, Marisha, Taliesin, Ashley, Liam, Laura, Sam, Matt. This was recently alphabetised.[2] As the documentation for {{infobox television}} states to list in original credit order I restored;[3] but moved Sam to between Ashley and Liam – so as to reflect the LARP-style opening from Campaign One. Though that was only used from episode C1E50, the show doesn't seem to have had a "traditional" credit sequence before that. Whilst we could use the order of occurance from the character biography introduction sequence, no credits are actually given. Another option would be to list the cast as announced/introduced in the first episode. However if we want to go with either of those options, Orion will need adding to the list. Thoughts? Little pob (talk) 17:29, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Just to add; I am not opposed to adding Orion to the infobox. Little pob (talk) 17:40, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I alphabetized the list, and I see the argument, but as you yourself point out, "credit order" doesn't work for a show that does not have classic intro or outro credits. If we use the credit sequence, why the one from campaign 1, rather than the current one? Campaign 2 has been using the order Travis - Marisha - Sam - Laura - Liam - Ashley - Taliesin - Matt for almost 60 episodes after all. Arcaist (talk) 22:22, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Web shows break all sorts of industry standards. Maybe we should ask on Template talk:Infobox television for a broader view? Sariel Xilo (talk) 00:02, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Sariel Xilo Good idea, I just did that. Arcaist (talk) 10:44, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If we use the credit sequence, why the one from campaign 1, rather than the current one? Only picked that because the documentation says original credit order. I presume this is because cast in traditional TV shows can move up and down the credit list as seasons go on. Little pob (talk) 12:33, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
For reference if we decide to so with this route, the cast are introduced in C1E1 in this order:
  • Matt
  • Ashley - absent, but Matt give apologies for absence
  • Marisha - mentioned by name, but only talks about 826LA
  • Travis
  • Laura
  • Liam
  • Talisen
  • Marisha (again) - this time introduces self
  • Orion
  • Sam
I'm not presuming we're going to go this way; but I'd was already on YouTube so thought I'd take the opportunity to note it down... Little pob (talk) 17:39, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Favre1fan93 in Template talk:Infobox television said: You start with the cast order from season 1, episode 1. If that remains the same for the entire season, then come season 2, episode 1, if there are any newly added cast members (regardless of what the season credit order is) you add them to the end of the season 1 list. For example, if season 1 has credits A, B, C, D, E for the entire season, and come season 2, the cast is A, C, D, F, G, H, the order on the main article simply becomes A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H. Sariel Xilo (talk) 01:43, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Subarticle list

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Just dropping a quick roundup of Critical Role subarticles below.

Mainspace
Drafts
Ideas


Updated list & removed my previous comments which were just a log of me updating this list. Sariel Xilo (talk) 19:29, 8 October 2021 (UTC) Moved former draft into the mainspace list. Sariel Xilo (talk) 21:28, 27 December 2022 (UTC) Updated list. Added ideas posted at the template. Sariel Xilo (talk) 17:31, 26 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Another draft... Draft:List of Critical Role cast members. Will likely follow the example of List of American Horror Story cast members and expand to List of Critical Role Campaign 1 characters (etc) at some point (assuming the draft is accepted). Little pob (talk) 12:16, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, and the list of guests is not up to date! Little pob (talk) 12:17, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

WikiData

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Continuing what was done for C2 (see Talk:Critical Role/Archive 3#Using WikiData for C2 episode count), #statements:P1113|from=Q109094281 displays the total number of episodes for C3 (ie. total count is now 117). You can update the total episode count over on WikiData and it will automatically display the episode count wherever the relevant template is. Sariel Xilo (talk) 18:45, 22 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestions

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Timeline (withdrawn)

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With ExU: Calamity going to be set before the current in-world epoch; I wonder if there's enough WP:RS for a "Timeline of the Critical Role universe". Need to bear-in-mind WP:TRIVIA, and this is not intended as an WP:OTHERSTUFF argument; but do check out Timeline of Star Trek as it contains several methods of displaying fictional timelines. Little pob (talk) 12:18, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

While I like the idea of it, I would have to do more research to see if there are enough secondary sources for notability. The timeline could also theoretically be a section in a dedicated "Exandria (campaign setting)" article (currently Exandria redirects to Dungeons & Dragons campaign settings#Exandria). But again, I'm not sure about the notability. Sariel Xilo (talk) 16:46, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've not started research yet; the sources may not even be there. It's one of those ideas you could spend months gathering relevant information, only for it to be deleted for reasons you've not considered... hence soliciting comments now Little pob (talk) 08:45, 20 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Fictional timelines have, historically, not fared well on Wikipedia as standalone articles. My suggestion would be to add it somewhere in an existing article, make sure it is well-sourced, and once you are confident of its chances of survival, split it out to its own article. BOZ (talk) 20:44, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Good to know, and would explain why there seemed to be a lack of fictional timelines when looking for examples of how to display such content (was kind of hoping they were just lost in the sea of real-world timelines). Adding to the main CR article would make most sense – provided the sources are there. As far as the idea goes; I've got the pan out of the drawer, but it's nowhere near ready to go on the stove. Little pob (talk) 08:46, 20 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, see Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Writing about fiction#Plot timelines for a lengthy list of deleted ones. BOZ (talk) 11:07, 20 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NOTPLOT looks a difficult bar to clear for a standalone article. As consensus seems to be for works of fiction to have prose statements of "X occurred before Y" rather than timelines as a list, table or graphic; I'll Wikipedia:Drop the stick and back slowly away from the horse carcass. Little pob (talk) 12:22, 20 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No worries. :) I'd think there would have to be some way to allow for a brief synopsis to be written somewhere, unless you think that is covered well-enough already. BOZ (talk) 20:48, 20 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Mighty Nein (draft)

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Can't remember if Sariel_Xilo is happy for people to add to the list above, so to err on the side of caution just a note to say Draft:Mighty Nein has been created. Little pob (talk) 13:19, 27 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for making the draft! Anyone is free to make updates - I mostly made the list when there started to be enough CR related articles for its own subproject. Sariel Xilo (talk) 16:32, 27 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sets

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@ERAGON: thanks for expanding on the early set design! Does that book mention the switch to a custom game table so it could be used as an additional source? Sariel Xilo (talk) 17:03, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No problem! I've only really looked at the first section of the book so far but I'll keep reading.--ERAGON (talk) 21:36, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Sariel Xilo: I read through the remainder; there's a few little bits of production info but a lot of it is in-universe or about the cast themselves. There's a lot of material one could use here to flesh out the early lives and career of the cast members on their respective pages; I've not done so. One little -perhaps controversial- bit I noticed too is that Tiberius is listed as a guest player in the book, not as a member of the principle cast.--ERAGON (talk) 14:18, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for taking a look! Re: Tiberius - that was brought up in a talk discussion on the cast list last year. In general, my feeling with CR is that they're a fine primary source for uncontroversial issues (ie. when did we get better mics & a table, creative influences, etc) but otherwise you have to be really judicious because they do have a pattern of trying to edit their history into a preferred narrative. Sariel Xilo (talk) 15:13, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I was surprised to see him listed as such, but hey. If I get the time I might go through and use some of the background material on the cast for their respective articles; it's fairly in depth on those.--ERAGON (talk) 15:52, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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