Talk:Court of Neptune Fountain

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Court of Neptune Fountain has been listed as one of the Art and architecture good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: August 27, 2024. (Reviewed version).

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Prod

wrongful prod, article has a reference. Slowking4 (talk) 16:43, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

Passed. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 04:48, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Court of Neptune Fountain/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: APK (talk · contribs) 03:37, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Rollinginhisgrave (talk · contribs) 03:54, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hey APK, I'll have a go at reviewing this article. I know I recently reviewed another one of yours, so I'll leave it for a month before reviewing another so that you have an opportunity to have a diversity of reviewers.

Prose and content

I'll be skipping the lede section, as it is quite a bit too long. MOS:LEADLENGTH advises 1 to 2 paragraphs for fewer than 2500 words, and this article has ~900 words in the body and 3 paragraphs.
- Trimmed. APK hi :-) (talk) 09:13, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

History

Someone jumping to the history section begins in media res. Better signposting is needed.
- Done APK hi :-) (talk) 09:10, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Prose is awkward here, instead of "The [building] was built between..." it is "Construction of the [building]... lasted from"
- Sentence removed. APK hi :-) (talk) 09:10, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In the second part of the first paragraph, you're communicating that the fountain, being ornate, fits into the building's decor. This should be the heart of what you're communicating. The building features many ornate details, including a large water fountain on the west side, below the main entrance. Two stairwells and eight pairs of ionic columns are also features on the west side of the building. is wordy and the relevance of the stairwells is ambiguous. The specificity of the locations of these places is excessive. They should be short glosses, elaborated on in relation to the Court of Neptune Fountain.
- Sentence removed. APK hi :-) (talk) 09:10, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
what was then-called the Library of Congress Building why is it important we know what the building was originally called? It probably can be integrated, but as it stands reads as an unnecessary digression. There is value in calling it the Thomas Jefferson Building consistently, especially if you are not noting when its name was changed in the history. It should also be included in the lede if it is consistently being referred to as the Library of Congress Building throughout.
- Done APK hi :-) (talk) 09:10, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The sculptor chosen to design the fountain and its statues was Roland Hinton Perry -> Roland Hinton Perry was chosen/selected to...
- Done APK hi :-) (talk) 09:10, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
whose other works include were all these works extant at the time? Preserve tense, i.e. whose works included... He later created...}} You can omit later works unless they're the source of his main notability
- Done APK hi :-) (talk) 09:10, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
After studying at the Beaux-Arts de Paris, the Académie Julian, and the Académie Delécluse, why is his education relevant? This breaks the flow by inserting a biography of the sculptor in the middle of a paragraph. This also creates unnecessary ambiguity when immediately after referring to "the building"
- Done APK hi :-) (talk) 09:10, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
and two years later, he was commissioned to design the fountain.[1][2][3] By late 1896, most of the interior and exterior features of the building had been completed. Construction crews began preparing the area for the fountain around the same time tighten up the timeline
- Done APK hi :-) (talk) 09:10, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also by late 1896 -> By this time,
- Done APK hi :-) (talk) 09:10, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
had been designed by Perry -> Perry had designed
- Done APK hi :-) (talk) 09:10, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can 'founding' be changed to 'casting'? This seems to be the more common word.
- Done APK hi :-) (talk) 09:10, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This section appears to fall into the trap of relying on primary sources, leading to issues around PROSELINE. Instead of Also by late 1896, the Neptune sculpture had been designed by Perry and was waiting for the Henry-Bonnard Bronze Co. to complete the founding.[4] The foundry shipped each piece of the sculpture to the fountain site after its completion.[5] -> By this point, Perry had finished designing the Neptune sculpture. It was then cast cast by the Henry-Bonnard Bronze Co and shipped to the site piece-by-piece/in pieces.
- Done APK hi :-) (talk) 09:10, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In addition to Perry, redundant
- Done APK hi :-) (talk) 09:10, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
architect Albert Weinert Why is he described as an architect? The wiki page for him doesn't mention architecture
- Done APK hi :-) (talk) 09:10, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The architects who worked on the fountain are -> Other architects who worked on the fountain include
- Done APK hi :-) (talk) 09:10, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In January 1898, some of the last of the fountain's sculptures arrived at the construction site.[8] cut, TMI due to proseline
- Done APK hi :-) (talk) 09:10, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
By the next month, the last piece of the fountain, a naiad, was installed.[9] Following its completion on February 23, 1898, -> The fountain was completed on February 23, 1898 with the installation of the final piece, a naiad.
- Done APK hi :-) (talk) 09:10, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Move the Perry quote to the design section.
- Done APK hi :-) (talk) 09:10, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Art critic Charles Henry Caffin said the fountain specify that he said this at the time for clarity.
- Sentence removed. APK hi :-) (talk) 09:10, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The next year, the building was designated a National Historic Landmark on December 21, 1965. The year doesn't need to be mentioned if it's "the next year". Suggest: On December 21 of the following year,
- Done APK hi :-) (talk) 09:10, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The fountain and its sculptures have been cleaned and restored on numerous occasions
- Can you specify the change you'd like to see? APK hi :-) (talk) 09:10, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
These repairs have included broken concrete and issues with the water pipes -> have included fixing broken concrete and water pipes
- Done APK hi :-) (talk) 09:10, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In 2001, the fountain was used as an example of nude statuary in Washington, D.C., along with many other artworks. The reasoning behind its inclusion was after U.S. Senator Mitch McConnell denied permission to display nude artworks in the Russell Senate Office Building rotunda. Artist Raymond Wiger responded by pointing out the Court of Neptune Fountain features nudity and said "It's probably the most explicit...just a block across from the U.S. Capitol." This paragraph is quite confusing. Use more active prose, condense by quite a bit.
- Done APK hi :-) (talk) 09:10, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Location and design

between East Capitol Street and Independence Avenue SE I understand these are notable, but the reader needing to orient the street in their head along cardinal lines is confusing, and should be stated more clearly if it is included.
- Done APK hi :-) (talk) 09:17, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
main entrance is the Neptune Plaza does Neptune Plaza need an article?
- I don't think so. APK hi :-) (talk) 09:17, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
, giving easy access to visitors walking past the site redundant
- Done APK hi :-) (talk) 09:17, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
there is a bronze Triton flanking each side of Neptune, with water spouting from the conch shells they hold resolve is/are inconsistency
- Done APK hi :-) (talk) 09:17, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This section should say "the statues are made of bronze" so every statue doesn't need that description added on.
- Done APK hi :-) (talk) 09:17, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Each of the three main sculptures are in granite niches that are topped each refers to singular, so should correspond to "is" rather than are, and a singular niche.
- Done APK hi :-) (talk) 09:17, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Slips into in-universe at the end.
- I don't follow. APK hi :-) (talk) 09:17, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Infobox needs to be cleaned up. The architect section is far too long, and includes mostly non-architects.
- See comment below. APK hi :-) (talk) 09:17, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Replace several purposes: aesthetic beauty, historical reminder and with as
- Sorry again, but can you clarify what should be replaced? The word "and" with "as"? It's a quote. APK hi :-) (talk) 09:17, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think everything else is fine, but this is the one I'd say should more firmly be changed: this is in the "location" section, so discussing whether it is a "historical reminder" is off topic, as with "aesthetic beauty". The sentence should be changed to read A reporter for Roll Call said the Court of Neptune Fountain serves as " doorman to the Library." Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 04:43, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done APK hi :-) (talk) 09:31, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

was after U.S. Senator don't need "U.S."
- Done APK hi :-) (talk) 09:17, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestions

and Paul J. Pelz, who was the main architect of the Library of Congress Building. -> and the main architect of the Thomas Jefferson Building Paul J. Pelz
- Done APK hi :-) (talk) 09:17, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

[2] Y
[4] Y
[6] Y his role should be specified as bronze founderer
[9] Y
[10] clock

Follow WP:GBOOKS

I can't find quotes in the pages provided. Please provide these.

[12] Y
[14] Y
[16] Y

WP:GBOOKS again

Other

COPYVIO/OR 37.5% earwig, quote Y
Broad clock pending how quotes are treated I would like to see reception discussed.
Too narrow clock PROSELINE causing indiscriminate issues noted
Neutral Y
Stable Y
Images well annotated Y

Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 03:54, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can you explain what you mean by "Someone jumping to the history section begins in media res. Better signposting is needed." I think the other issues have been resolved. Regarding the infobox, I removed the founder, but I feel like the sculptors and architects are relevant. APK hi :-) (talk) 09:13, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mostly good changes. Sorry for misspelling in medias res, that can't be helping. I meant that someone jumping to the History section of the article will be confused as to why it's describing the Thomas Jefferson building and Library of Congress for three lines, given the lede is meant to be a summary of the body, it should be introduced (signposted) why this is being discussed.

I know it's a pain, but I'll also ask you to respond after each point with whether/how you've addressed it. I can see from a scan that you haven't found any material for a reception section, and either didn't see or didn't think it necessary to address the comment about several purposes: aesthetic beauty, historical reminder and. I'm unsure if there's any other comments you didn't address/took issue with. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 11:47, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.